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There's a huge misconseption about what civilian roleplayers are. A lot of people seem to assume that a civilian roleplayer is just somebody who stands at the mall and does fuck all else, and if that's what you immediately think of when you think of civilian roleplay then I can confidently say that you have the completely wrong idea about it and should try to be more open about what civilian roleplay is. The bartenders and security guards in that club you went to, The taxi driver that picked you up, The guy doing taxes for businesses, That person you seen jogging along the beach, These are the people that make the world feel busy and alive. Do you really assume that every person you drive past is either a cop or a thug? When you actually roleplay in the civilian scene, you realise how many players are actually playing LSRP to, you guest it, roleplay something realistic. I've met so many amazing roleplayers who simply log on to socialise, go to work (an ic job like bartending, doing graphics, news reporting), go for a meal, then go home. I promise you that there are more people than you think roleplaying like this, and it's what fills up the world with normal, civilian people. When I was running Roze Enterprise we hired over 150 people across 2 years. Yes, one hundred and fifty people interested in civilian roleplay with one faction. We were one of the only civilian factions ever to provide full time jobs to anyone who was willing to put in the effort and trust me, a lot of people enjoyed roleplaying a full time job; bartending, doing security, trucking, whatever, with a team. The people that you see as mallrats are the same people that we turned away from the faction. You assume that they are civilian roleplayers, generally the people you are thinking of are just trollers. For a non-illegal faction, the amount of interest that we seen for civilian roleplay was overwhelming - Another civilian faction that did very well was Roux, which created a lot of jobs for the playerbase and created a lot of very high quality civilian roleplay. With good support for civilian roleplay it would be more common to see amazing civilian factions creating jobs and helping the economy, as well as filling in the empty space between illegal roleplayers and cops. If civilian roleplay was taken more seriously, you would see more IC businesses that are run realistically - Competing with other businesses, creating a job market etc, and not just a "front for my illegal faction". You would see in character news companies showing up to big events. You would see Los Santos University opening up and actually becoming stable. Civilian roleplay is the part that fills in all of the gaps to make the world feel alive, and not just a cops and robbers server. The two major issues that have been affecting the civilian scene are the economy, and the fact that a lot of people majorly misinterpret what civilian roleplay even is in the first place.

Most of the jobs should be something that forces the player to interact with others, otherwise it creates a grind with zero role-play. However, there should be alternative 'script' jobs that allow people to get a foot in the server. Rather than wanting to buy a bigger and a faster boat, new players (who want to role-play a "civilian") should be wanting to find an in-character job (e.g. bartending, security) that will offer them a bigger amount of money. In my opinion, role-play jobs should be the most high paying ones. If you spent 3 hours of your life sitting behind a bar, serving drinks, you should be paid a generous amount of cash. Otherwise, this would force players to spend those three hours speedrunning a garbage truck or a taxi. @ROZE summed it all up for me as well.

You're absolutely correct, when it comes to misconception with civilian roleplayers, like I said a lot of has to be changed inside the circle for the end result to be beautiful. Now what you said about ROZE Enterprise - this is the point what I had in mind, you managed to create the scenarios for other people to join you and let's be honest here, the ROZE managed to up-lift the whole civilian roleplay scene in a sense. With the enterprise creating the base for roleplay the whole scene became better and more enjoyable, more alive. Yes, civilian roleplay needs help and support. I am not against any scripts or help, but with all due respect, when reading the main post of this thread it sounded more like "can you do something, because I can't enjoy it", "I need that so I can enjoy my gameplay" - this is why I emphasized the idea of trying to fix some of the mistakes by yourself first, then asking for something. Like ROZE mentioned, she managed to get around 150 people involved with her faction. It just proves, that some people just need guidance for their roleplay career (if you can say this in that way :D) to start.

I'm responding to this entire post directly as I don't think I could physically disagree with everything you've said more. Also I had this pre-written and the forums ate my post, so I'm dashing this out fast. I'm not editing this as I can't be fucked to do it twice. I've already wasted enough time writing it. Apologies for the wall of text, I have COVID and literally nothing better to do. Mechanic paychecks in no way promote role play, in any form. How are hourly paychecks an acceptable parallel to the financial incentives that existed in legal/illegal role play, who also have access to them? Players would be motivated to remain within factions and role play around guns / drugs as those assets very literally translated to a form of income (especially pre drug nerf). Why do you think players PF abused, for the thrill? They did it because it made money. Players will role play in businesses because it makes money. The script in question is designed to be an alternative to script jobs. It creates passive role play for the entire community with the opening of businesses, it rewards players for taking an active role, and it helps teach them the fundamentals of role play. This provides a solution to the fucking miserable new player experience which boiled down to "wait an unreasonable amount of time before you have literally anything, or drive a truck around like a complete dickhead and make peanuts." This would be beneficial to everybody. I very literally don't see a single argument for how this could possibly be a bad thing. I can assure you that in my 6,000+ hours playing exclusively in an administrative capacity, speccing players, and specifically being tasked by management to explore the functionality of script jobs, I have never once seen a legitimate illegal role player drive a truck. I could drive to Donald Scarpa's house and put a gun to his head and I don't think I could get him to do a single malt run. This doesn't happen. The only job that I've ever seen illegal role players use is mechanic. The same script that you're criticizing in your previous point directly remedies the problem that you're pointing out here. It removes a significant burden from the business owners and promotes businesses opening consistently. I fail to see how any of this is a bad thing. This is just a bizarre, inappropriate jump to conclusion that is completely devoid of any truth. If you apply the same logic to any other script it falls flat. Should the /me command be removed as it's ripe for abuse? Why release the server if it's going to enable players to troll and dm? This is why LS:RP and every other role play server on pretty much any game has a standing staff team. This is the direct purpose of having a staff that logs in-game and actively moderates. All scripts can be abused in some form. This isn't exclusive to what we're discussing. The "image" that civilian role players harbor is entirely in your head. That's the perception of them that your experiences have fostered. You saying they're "associated mostly with mall rats" or people who "can't roleplay, who just want to provoke" is simply inflammatory and isn't grounded in reality. I'm sorry that you've had bad personal experiences but in no way is this reflective of literally the most thematically diverse group of players on the server. Employing scripting in any way isn't going to change this. I'd also like to point out what we're also referencing things that are outside of scripting (i.e. community initiatives). Remember when you first logged on, and you weren't aware of the mechanic job? Do you remember another player telling you about passive income, and you only had to have the mechanic job to get it? Do you remember having them take you to Blueberry and show you where it is, so you could get it? Does this sound like the basis of a functioning, planned economy to you? The mechanic job was designed in 2009-2010 to the best of my recollection, well before anybody on LS:RP starting taking role play seriously. The passive $1,250 is a remnant of a bygone era, scripted for a community that looks nothing like it does today. It wasn't designed to be role play income. It wasn't really designed for anything, and heralding it as the solution to these problems is incredibly short sighted. The only real reason that mechanic paychecks and savings existed is that LS:RPs economy was complete fucking garbage (read: nonexistent). They were a solution of convenience, as ripping the economic backbone out of a twelve year old project was well beyond the experience of management and development. Why are you so intent on maintaining a script realistically should have zero relevance today? Assuming you're asking for something similar to the LS:RP script, you are very literally asking players to play 1,000+ in electronic squalor for a taste of financial security. None of this promotes role play, it promotes time investment. I'm not explicitly talking about these sort of quasi-minigame scripts, but I find it staggering that you have a problem with them. People went ape shit over poker when it came out, and while I'll admit that it didn't exactly provide riveting role play, I don't understand how giving players things to do is a bad thing. If they added golf I think I would spend 90% of my time playing it / role playing around it. Tennis too. That sounds great. LS:RP always had a problem with interest in NPC role play. The best example I can think of: when was the last time somebody role played stealing a phone during a robbery? Why the fuck would you? Offering players something tangible (i.e. item scripts) provides players with something more than a non-committal line of text to back up what they're doing. I'm not asking for development to shit up the map with a bunch of minigames and circus fanfare. Re-read the original post, you're jumping to insane conclusions again. a. This post is equating all of civilian role play to a small minority of civilian role players who existed on LS:RP. Again, re-read the original post. The landscape has changed. Criminal role players are the minority on GTA 5. Thousands of civilian role players exist who aren't ROZE. GTA RP exists outside of LS:RP. b. I was the lead admin who directly dealt with ROZE as they fell under my purview for businesses when they were just a player. In the latter half of my tenure, I frankly stopped giving a fuck about the the communities perception of certain player's quality when they consistently showed that they were trying their absolute best. This line of thinking is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that players are too stone-headed to realize that role play exists outside of the LS:RP cops and robbers meta. The fact that you don't accept that ROZE, Valentine or Saunders would have deserved even a shred of recognition from staff and the support to excel in what they do is the best example I can find of LS:RPs outdated approach to factions fundamentally fucking up people's perception of role play. It is incredible how fast you made my point for me. I'm not trying to be rude, but I seriously don't understand this paragraph in response to the theme of the thread. Can you reword this so I can respond to it, please? "Elite civilian role play" conceptually doesn't exist, nor is it an elitist troupe of sequestered aristocrats who lord over the other non-criminals like they're trying to reenact a Bohemian Grove meeting. It also isn't a gaggle of real life Melvins sitting in an interior and talking to each other OOCly. It is an overarching theme that realistically encompasses every character in some way. I don't think drawing allusions towards legal/illegal role play really works in this context. I'm asking them to do literally anything other than nothing. Civilian role play has had exactly zero representatives and zero focus since 2008. It very literally hasn't ever been considered by staff in any form outside of businesses and companies, the former being largely auxiliary to illegals, the latter coming out far too late. I am aware of this as during my tenure as staff, I believe only I and maybe a handful of others ever gave a shit about civilians. In the climate of 2022 GTA RP, this is no longer sustainable. That is the purpose of this thread. I've role played exclusively criminal and criminal auxiliary characters. This thread isn't me asking for special attention for myself and people who role play like me. This is me bringing up that a large market of GTA 5 RP isn't something that LS:RP has ever dealt with in a large capacity before, and if they intend for the server to be financially prosperous (protip: they do), leaving that market entirely untapped may not be possible. By "scripts," I mean literally a handful of scripts above zero. By "administration," I mean a point of contact. I'm asking that the thing that every other facet of the server has also be applied to a potential market of hundreds of players (read: customers). "Civilian" incentives largely benefit everybody regardless. I don't see why you have a problem with it. You understand that even though you're in X criminal faction, you can still benefit from dynamic business map markers and item creation scripts, right?

Hey, I'm genuinely curious if courts are gonna be a thing on LSRP5. I remember that they used to be a thing on the SAMP-based LSRP, however was never really active or paid any attention to, due to the fact that they had very little say, and you were only able to contest charges after serving time for them (which was quite literally a counter-incentive to appealing them, and cops had a final say on whether you're gonna spend 10h in prison or not). My question is; will the criminal justice system be reworked here? I feel like implementing a system similiar to the one that currently works on GTAW would be a really neat addition to both legal and illegal roleplay. Also just to counter a couple points before they'll be brought up - I can guarantee you that there will be several people interested in roleplaying judges, lawyers, and prosecutors if that's made possible. I feel like a system like this doesn't harm anybody (even if the court cases are "roleplayed" via forums in order to save some time), and only enhances the entire experience.

I was the leader of the court faction on GTA:W for a long period of time, which consisted of the Judges themselves, the District Attorney’s office and the Public Defender’s office. Our court was divided into three branches: The Supreme Court, Appellate Court and Superior Court. The Superior Court was the trial court, with three separate divisions, those being criminal, traffic and civil. When charged with any crime, players had the option of three pleas: Guilty, Not Guilty or No Contest. When pleading Not Guilty, players would be held until the conclusion of their trial unless bail was granted. If a player pleas No Contest they will serve their jail time as normal and be released when the timer is over, not being held and have 30 days to appeal their charges to the court if they do wish. Some charges such as Capital Murder (which is murder but a CK of a player) and some other charges would be considered a Required Case which the player was required to sit in jail until their trial finished. This also applied for players who met 30 criminal points, where the court could then decide whether the player should face life in prison or some other penalty. Overall, this system has functioned very well on GTA:W and as a system averages nearly ~700 criminal cases a year, not counting players or companies suing eachother or law enforcement agencies or traffic cases. Also, LEO factions were required to have arrest warrants approved for most crimes if someone was not arrested on scene, as well as search and electronic surveillance warrants. I feel like a system similar this would be very beneficial to both legal and illegal players of the server, creating roleplay for both sides and ensuring fairness to criminal parties by approving warrants, etc through a system of checks and balances by the court.

Kirill's mapping showcase Prison/SD misc Liberty City Police Department Los Santos Police Department Misc' Court House Drug Island Cargo Ship Vice City port Prison (old-test project) Businesses/Misc

I recently found some of my IC photos from SAMP LSRP and decided to use them to create a collection of forum profile banners. All banners contain images which were taken and edited ICly in the original LSRP. Feel free to take any that you like and use them on your profile, or just enjoy the art 🙂.

Let us know what are your plans for 2022. Happy new year!

babuska

Thank you for sharing this amazing work with us.

I think the biggest thing that needs to be ensured is to have as little involvement from staff as possible, except to ensure the smooth running of the factions or unrealistic laws aren't passed. I would say the biggest challenge that many communities face is the balance of power aspect. A faction leader of the Police Department for example shouldn't be immune and should answer to someone. Setting those pathways should be done carefully and I'd love to see more emphasis on pushing the player-ran aspect and less focus on management being involved in various aspects.

Something we didn't know we needed, great content

Some others that I left out

This is soo beautiful, the memory train is hitting me hard

You seem to have a very false perception of our law enforcement factions. What was the last time you've been on LS-RP and you witnessed our faction breaching the 4th Amendment? I am very interested in hearing specifics. All our supervisors in LSPD have to go through an examination based on case law and policy that is considered "too much for a video game". Not even half of our faction members who take this exam pass it, excluding the amount of tries some people take to pass it. It's not that deep. You don't need to be an American to understand the law to a very detailed extent to function as a law enforcement officer in-character. As long as the penal code (which I'm sure it will be) is written by people with clear understanding of how the law works in the US there won’t be any issues. Also, I am hopeful that the SA Judiciary is clear which case law is applicable and which isn't. Warrants aren't a misunderstood concept in our factions, not sure where you are getting that from. The standard in regards to warrant approvals and throwing out cases is going to be handled by judges, who will hopefully be competent. If law enforcement factions do a bad job with cases in-character, then they should be thrown out by the system. We won't be approving our own warrants, that has been removed (a long time ago) given the upcoming changes in SA Judiciary and we are excited to see what comes out of it, for clarity.

You're simply the best @ROZE

Amazing, somehow it gives me nostalgia. :[

Wow cool stuff here bro, keep it up!

I agree with Matt here. As I have been part of the judicial scene of GTA W for long enough, there weren't any major issues with the warrant system. It's especially important when it comes to large scale operations. Having judge approve warrants, would be another filter to avoid metagaming. I'm sure it would reduce situations where after raid, heated argument arises whether it was based on OOC information. Obviously it would not be complete guarantee but it would help without a doubt. Also, I'm positive that there is enough interest in the judiciary to provide server with enough judges so there would not be excessive waiting period on the warrants. I understand that this is a game and we should not go too deep into the complex reality of legal system and overdevelop bureaucracy but having some kind of separation of powers would do server good. Tying hands of law enforcement agencies to some extent, will enhance the quality and thoroughness. Plus the OOC aspect I mentioned before. Fiendfyre mentioned that issue before was lack of cooperation by LEO factions. That's why I think it is important to have properly functioning legal system ready once the server opens. It is much more complicated integrating such affecting addition once LEOs have already gotten used to the system without courts. Obviously LSRP should not aim to be duplication of GTA W but after all legal system is universal and GTA W based theirs on it. So I hope staff of LSRP are willing to apply that same universal foundation and adjust it to avoid stepping on the same rake as GTA W did in some of the aspects.

I've seen warrants work on GTA:W for a long time with no one being able to approve them besides Judges. The thing that needs to be said that is that LEO roleplayers need to adapt from having the power to do everything without any checks and balances and learn to cooperate with others. The era of LEOs needing to be judge, jury and executioner is an archaic mentality that should be ended. It's not that hard to write a short narrative and provide a little evidence as to why they need the warrant approved. The standard for warrants is probable cause and that isn't a very hard burden of proof to meet. Hopefully in LSRP:V the Courts will not meet the same brick wall as it sounds like you had hit in the past.

Penal code is being completely rewritten by @kendrick and I. Criminal code has been completed, we're now writing & reviewing the vehicle code. Everything should be finalized in a bit and it'll be posted before the month is over.

Very cool, never forget 🤗

Yes the courts will be a thing in V. Yes they will be active. As of right now I'm still in discussions with the Head of Legal Factions as to what role the courts will play whether in game, on the forums or a combination of both. There has been an incredible of interest from people wanting to be judges, prosecutorial staff and lawyers. You may continue to discuss and make suggestions in this forum and I'll see about bringing some change the community would like to see. RyanW Chief Justice San Andreas Judiciary

First and foremost, you should not divide community to illegal and legal sides. Integration between these two aspects is essential if we are to build realistic environment. We should avoid situation where people who focus mostly on illegal roleplay, get isolated from the legal scene entirely or worse, develop some kind of rivality between the two. Also, mentions of LSRP not being able to compete with GTA W in legal aspects is highly overestimated.

Jeeeeeez, still alive. Whats up man!

To play LS-RP nonstop dude.. who's with me?

Hey there

hllo

Hey, we're looking to add new mappers and modders to our ranks, including team leaders. Positions Available: Modder Mapper Contact: Please add and message me on Discord at Kane#1683 if you're interested. (On the off chance I don't accept your friend request, please mention me in #main on the discord server.) Please come prepared with a portfolio. MODDING TEAM Modder Responsibilities: Choose your own projects to work on, or talk to the head of modding about having some assigned. Handle assignments from the development team. Requirements: Experience and knowledge of GTA V modding Ability to work independently when needed Ability to collaborate Experience in past modding teams is preferred but not required MAPPING TEAM Mapper Responsibilities: Choose your own projects to work on, or talk to the head of mapping about having some assigned. Handle assignments from the development team. Requirements: Experience and knowledge of GTA V mapping Ability to work independently when needed Ability to collaborate Experience in past mapping teams is preferred but not required

Hello everyone, I am Maxim, some of you may know/remember me as Frank Underhill and I'm currently in charge of the government faction here in LS-RP:V. With the move to GTA:V we decided to make major changes to the government faction, how it functions and its structure. Here are some changes we decided to take, with a brief explanation as to why we went that route: Los Santos City Government - We decided to revert back to a municipal system, the Mayor overseeing all government operations instead of the Secretary of State or the Lieutenant Governor. We went through multiple concepts and decided it would be best to re-introduce LSGOV, while not the best system - it is better than what we had before. Involvement - The government will be more involved with legal factions and the community in general. We want to introduce new concepts that weren't around on SAMP, with some already in place such as the city budget (which involves all government factions), in-game licenses and more. We want to maintain an interactive government, with useful services (both in roleplay and script-wise) that players could use. New services - We integrated new services into the faction, such as the Department of Medical Examiner-Coroner, firearm licenses and parking enforcement. We want to improve roleplay and move on from old concepts (such as impounding vehicles non-stop). *Everything is still being discussed and might change by the time the server releases. In order to support these new changes, we decided to open up recruitment and allow players to join the faction pre-launch. If you wish to take a look at our open vacancies go ahead and check our new forums: https://forum.lsgov.us/ We also have a brand new Discord server which can be found here: https://discord.gg/DVGfh3nsKP If you have any ideas/questions related to LSGOV feel free to write them down here, or join our Discord and message us there.

Hello, We're still hard at work and today I'd like to give you a few development updates so you can see what we've been cooking up. Before anything though - I KNOW! You want to see some of that juicy illegal faction action. Drogas, gats, theft, all of that. Well sorry but not today. The Faction Team + some other members of our team have been hard at work preparing a thought-through bullet proof scheme to give our illegal scene the attention it deserves. LS-RP prides itself on being home to the most legendary factions of any online Roleplay community and we want to be sure we're doing things right before we start parading them around. So shoutout to all of you and I promise I'll show you some stuff you're going to love soonTM For the time being, let's talk about our clothing system. Which is your favorite hoodie? Is it Drawable 92, texture 12? Or Drawable 200, texture 0? You know... the yellow looking o-- forget about it. Forget about sliders and arrow buttons to click through every clothing item out there. Highlights The system is entirely integrated and you will never have to think about an undershirt again. If a shirt has an undershirt counterpart, the system detects it and uses it. There are no concepts of "undershirts" visible to the player. You can see a preview of any clothing item in your inventory, or in a store - without even trying it on. Some items have alternative states (hoodies with hoods on, unzipped jackets, etc). You can switch between those & the system will match your perfect undershirt for it. Just make sure it's compatible, or you'll be walking about with your belly button out. Clothing items are inventory item entities, which means you can store them in furniture (drawers, closets). They can be placed in bags, given to other players, stolen, etc. Different stores will hold different types of clothing items. Don't go looking for a fancy suit in Sub Urban. We're adding custom models for clothing. We aren't decided yet whether to use IRL brands or not. Let me know what you think about that. TL;DR, show me the video Besides that, there's still a lot of work going on behind the scenes. We're preparing electronics stores, character applications (which should open soon for our Patreon supporters), Kane's cooking up a great damage & death system and much more. It's been great to see the community engagement since we've opened the forums up. Love seeing new and old faces around. Thanks for all the support, can't wait for you all to play! Kind regards, Mmartin