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We need to talk ...


Mmartin

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Hey everyone,

 

The last dozen or so posts we've made have been more or less pragmatic, to inform everyone about updates & what to expect next. It's been a while since I made a post about the server and its direction in general. I want to open a honest dialogue about where the server currently stands, and how we can move onwards and upwards from here. 

 

There's no sugar coating it — we're in a tough position right now, from multiple angles. The player base has been stable for quite a while, but took a major hit in the recent week or two. We had a day and a half of downtime recently caused by network issues and a DDOS attack, and after bringing the server back up we're seeing peak numbers that are lower than we had during the premium only pre-release. Saying it's sub optimal is putting it mildly. I will do my best to avoid any excuses and focus on facts, problems and solutions.

 

If you ask ten people, you'll get ten reasons why the player base has declined. I'll dive into details of some of the issues we currently face. We've solutions for some of those problems, but I'd like to extend the discussion of how to handle some of these issues to you, the community, as well. 

 

Failure to manage expectations

I feel that one of the issues we had from the beginning was our failure to manage the expectations. Handful of us worked on the gamemode for roughly two years, in the spare time we had when we felt like it and weren't working or otherwise busy. The aim from the beginning was to create a barebones MVP, which we could then expand on. I feel that I failed to communicate that, and as a result of that, a lot of the community expected us to be an equal competitor from day one. This led to a massive spike in interest initially, with the player base dwindling over time once more people realized that the experience we offer isn't as complete as they might need. Other players seeing the decline in player base could be another contributing factor to further decline.

 

I feel like there isn't a simple solution for mismanaged expectations after the fact. I will use this as a much needed learning experience.

 

Development not keeping up

Another major contributor to the decline in morale and by proxy in player base is the way development progressed after release. We simply aren't doing enough to measure up. Initially, our main focus was on ensuring stability of the server and fixing critical issues post-release. We got some much-requested features out, but we haven't had more than a handful of completely new features come out since release. That's a major problem.

 

With only a few exceptions (big shout out to Imperium, who has been carrying the team for the past month or so), the majority of our Development Team either became increasingly busy with work after release, or simply burned out. This was my case as well, as I started a new job in May and had to do a lot of adjusting and some travel; the time I had left was mostly spent on maintenance, handling technical issues, legal/biz aspect and managing the server as a whole. The timing was unfortunate, because we all knew that the real work begins post-launch to make sure the needs of our community are met. While some aspects of this can't be affected by me, I still came short — I failed to keep the development team motivated and to make sure people don't burn out. 

 

This, in the end, lead to some promises left behind, which is something I really wanted to leave in the SA-MP era. Unfortunate.

 

There's several solutions that can be applied here. We'll be once again taking in more developers in the coming days to help us with the amount of work that needs to be done. I'll also look for a way to offload my work with managing the system infrastructure, so even fewer things are reliant solely on me and can be handled by another developer as well.

 

Leadership & Communication

I feel that a significant chunk of us in the core team (leadership, team leads and devs) switched to a coasting mode too quickly. We got comfortable and complacent. I believe that motivation and strength comes from top to bottom, and we as the leadership must do better to innovate, push forward, show face and communicate everything with the community. This became harder in the recent weeks and there's no other way about it, we simply must do better.

 

 

Of course the list above isn't exhaustive. We're aware of the frequent shootouts, abundance of weapons in the server, frequent shootouts, jobs becoming stale, etcetera. We put together a two-week plan of action of things we'd like to accomplish. I'll share it with you, but please take it with a grain of salt as it may change and some things may be added, or taken out.

 

Immediate (today/tomorrow)

- Communicate the current state of the server (this post)

- Add more developers to the team

- Reach out to player-owned companies and factions to make sure they've everything they need 

- Reach out to admins regarding long report times, and not answering difficult reports

 

Week 1

- Fix vehicle loan payments, and transfervehicle after paying off loan

- Ability to "trade in" a leased vehicle, with the ability to get a % of your principal back

- Add more clothing mods

- Make Horsepower affect vehicle performance

- Level requirement for equipping a weapon (across all characters) to curb DM

- Add interior presets & interior change

- Add separate group for /setprop access, so property reports aren't reliant on Leads

- Adjust mechanic / vehicle part prices (wheels, etc)

 

Week 2

- Some gambling script (even if just slots, lotto or blackjack)

- Graffiti

- Add more vehicles, whether existing GTA ones to pdm, or modded

- More trucking routes

- Investment into marketing

- Schedule another community meeting

 

To reiterate, we probably won't be able to do all of these, but these are some of the things we've identified need immediate attention.

 

Despite the admittedly grim situation with the player base right now, I believe we can turn things around. The entire situation is very humbling and has been a big reality check and a learning experience for me. We've a lot going for us — we've a great staff team, a lot of knowledgeable and dedicated folk on our side, other major servers providing us assistance whenever we need it. But most importantly, we've fostered an awesome community which is what I focus on when it's time to push forward no matter what. I'm sorry I let some of you down, it hurts especially because I know a lot of people really believe in the project and want it to do well.

 

This is where I'll turn the post towards you. If you're good at something and want to use your skill to help us make the server better, please reach out. If you've opinions you want to share, please do so below. I welcome opinions of anyone with the best interest of the server at heart.

 

Martin

 

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3 hours ago, Stinkywinky said:

@MmartinPersonally, I think faction management needs to tone up too. We have directors, Captains, and other high-ranking members sitting there like door mats. I understand the player base is low, but faction leaders and high-ranking members should be preparing for the future. Instead, from a personal point of view we have an inactive leadership that is, not pushing for members and is not doing a thing but remaining in their position when other members have the ambition and want to thrive and push that department forward but are being held back by their inactivity. 

 

Another thing for me SASD is recruiting too many cops. We had 55 members on during a peak session and 24 were cops and 22 of them were SASD, and this was during the graduation as there wasn't one due to DDOS. Recruitment for cops needs to be monitored. SASD is more or less permanently open. I find PD recruitment is fine, once a month or once every 6 weeks but SASD once every week, is ridiculous. This is speaking from a legal faction employee point of view.

 

 

 

 

 

Not really sure where you got your information from or who relayed it to you but your math is way off. The LSSD* (not the SASD - it does not exist), opens recruitment once per month, not once per week. No need to exaggerate, it won't help get your point across - in fact it'll just make people not take any of your concerns seriously. Second, there were nowhere near 22 SD cops online today - I was online and during my time online (I was online for about 5-6 hours), there were 12 cops online most of them were SD. Out of the 12, 4-5 were trainees from last month's recruitment drive. You can't blame their activity or higher ratio to non LEO on recruitment because that's definitely not the case. There's more cops than regular players because the gang members and civilian roleplayers are no longer too active. It's not like you can go and tell them not to log on because there's already too many cops online. 

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35 minutes ago, Jerome said:

 

Not really sure where you got your information from or who relayed it to you but your math is way off. The LSSD* (not the SASD - it does not exist), opens recruitment once per month, not once per week. No need to exaggerate, it won't help get your point across - in fact it'll just make people not take any of your concerns seriously. Second, there were nowhere near 22 SD cops online today - I was online and during my time online (I was online for about 5-6 hours), there were 12 cops online most of them were SD. Out of the 12, 4-5 were trainees from last month's recruitment drive. You can't blame their activity or higher ratio to non LEO on recruitment because that's definitely not the case. There's more cops than regular players because the gang members and civilian roleplayers are no longer too active. It's not like you can go and tell them not to log on because there's already too many cops online. 

Yeah that's one of the issues why people are not motivated to play.

Too many cops thirsty for arrests and pull you over for the slightest inconvenience.

Nah, 👎 too many cops.

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7 minutes ago, Cursed_King said:

Yeah that's one of the issues why people are not motivated to play.

Too many cops thirsty for arrests and pull you over for the slightest inconvenience.

Nah, 👎 too many cops.

That's definitely not why most people are not motivated to play. When the server first launched, it was peaking 300 players. Connection issues came and went, it started peaking just over 200. Then slowly reduced to about 150, 120, 100 and now we're struggling to maintain over 70 players. If you're gonna say that that decline is caused by cops then you're a lost cause. Throughout several months the server has been up, there was a point where cops were massively outnumbered by civilians and gang members. Our last recruitment drive is the only recruitment drive where we recently took in anywhere near 10 new recruits. The last few have been very selective, we were taking in 3-5 recruits a month. Driving around in a Buffalo STX running intersection and driving like this is GTA Online is the reason why most people are pulled over. Drive more realistic and you won't get pulled over.

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6 hours ago, Jerome said:

That's definitely not why most people are not motivated to play. When the server first launched, it was peaking 300 players. Connection issues came and went, it started peaking just over 200. Then slowly reduced to about 150, 120, 100 and now we're struggling to maintain over 70 players. If you're gonna say that that decline is caused by cops then you're a lost cause. Throughout several months the server has been up, there was a point where cops were massively outnumbered by civilians and gang members. Our last recruitment drive is the only recruitment drive where we recently took in anywhere near 10 new recruits. The last few have been very selective, we were taking in 3-5 recruits a month. Driving around in a Buffalo STX running intersection and driving like this is GTA Online is the reason why most people are pulled over. Drive more realistic and you won't get pulled over.

 

Ok, so the last recruitment date was 09/08/2023, new recruitment date is 01/09/2023. So the facts you provide are not right either. The simple fact is, too many cops. Not enough civ jobs for people to earn a living in the game resulting in the server being filled with cops. I don't wish to argue with you, but trying to destroy a point I was making is a bit pathetic. Okay, it isn't once a week but it does feel like it when LSPD is not recruiting like LSSD, Maybe what they should do is what LSSD did back in 2008, LSSD patrol the county only, this would reduce the intake of LSSD members.

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3 hours ago, Stinkywinky said:

 

Ok, so the last recruitment date was 09/08/2023, new recruitment date is 01/09/2023. So the facts you provide are not right either. The simple fact is, too many cops. Not enough civ jobs for people to earn a living in the game resulting in the server being filled with cops. I don't wish to argue with you, but trying to destroy a point I was making is a bit pathetic. Okay, it isn't once a week but it does feel like it when LSPD is not recruiting like LSSD, Maybe what they should do is what LSSD did back in 2008, LSSD patrol the county only, this would reduce the intake of LSSD members.

There would be little to no cops in the city then, and then you'd be here whining about "the city is a warzone, do something about it!!!". PD and SD recruitments open at moreof the same time, around once a month, sometimes longer and sometimes shorter than that. Just cause you don't like that there's cops, doesn't mean we shouldn't be able to play the server like you or anyone else on the server. We're picky as is with our recruitment drives, and we usually drop off the majority of people before they're even allowed to go on any type of patrol, if we stopped recruiting or if we started patrolling areas that have 0 people in it at all times that'd cause our faction to die. The amount of cops changed nothing for the playerbase, but our members stayed active which is why now we have a lot online with less non-LEO players.

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3 hours ago, Stinkywinky said:

 

Ok, so the last recruitment date was 09/08/2023, new recruitment date is 01/09/2023. So the facts you provide are not right either. The simple fact is, too many cops. Not enough civ jobs for people to earn a living in the game resulting in the server being filled with cops. I don't wish to argue with you, but trying to destroy a point I was making is a bit pathetic. Okay, it isn't once a week but it does feel like it when LSPD is not recruiting like LSSD, Maybe what they should do is what LSSD did back in 2008, LSSD patrol the county only, this would reduce the intake of LSSD members.

Players aren't allowed houses or businesses outside of LS. Why should we go patrol where there is rarely anyone at all except the occasional trucker?

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10 hours ago, Jerome said:

That's definitely not why most people are not motivated to play. When the server first launched, it was peaking 300 players. Connection issues came and went, it started peaking just over 200. Then slowly reduced to about 150, 120, 100 and now we're struggling to maintain over 70 players. If you're gonna say that that decline is caused by cops then you're a lost cause. Throughout several months the server has been up, there was a point where cops were massively outnumbered by civilians and gang members. Our last recruitment drive is the only recruitment drive where we recently took in anywhere near 10 new recruits. The last few have been very selective, we were taking in 3-5 recruits a month. Driving around in a Buffalo STX running intersection and driving like this is GTA Online is the reason why most people are pulled over. Drive more realistic and you won't get pulled over.

I said too many cops is "one of the issues" not because of it players lost motivation, and you can't really deny that LEO are starving for arrests, I don't blame them because that's what they signed up for to RP and enjoy. But it affects both legal and illegal RPers.

I RP legal/illegal and I get annoyed to get pulled over every turn for the slightest mistake and get fined for 250+ dollars, while you can't even argue with the deputy who arrested you. It's a game not North Korea to take shit that seriously.

A better example for a cop is Scarlett Skye, she really does a good job balancing between being strict and have an open mind when coming to going easy on someone did a traffic mistake.

Last time I was the only one doing Taxi job and literally after I got my first client in a whole week, I got excited and drove rapidly to catch the client when I got pulled by the deputies, two cars and got fined for 270 something, when I explained the situation no fuck was given whatsoever.

Yeah I stand by my point, too many cops on the server.

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I think players will come back with time. There was a lot of anticipation for the server to launch and there’s a lot of competition out there. Once the server catches up in regards to features, factions, businesses and other development peoples attentions will sway towards the server again. My biggest reason for returning to the server has always been due to the fact there’s no server out there with the same high standards as LSRP, most people can barely pass the application stage which keeps the high quality we all play for. 

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14 hours ago, Cursed_King said:

I said too many cops is "one of the issues" not because of it players lost motivation, and you can't really deny that LEO are starving for arrests, I don't blame them because that's what they signed up for to RP and enjoy. But it affects both legal and illegal RPers.

I RP legal/illegal and I get annoyed to get pulled over every turn for the slightest mistake and get fined for 250+ dollars, while you can't even argue with the deputy who arrested you. It's a game not North Korea to take shit that seriously.

A better example for a cop is Scarlett Skye, she really does a good job balancing between being strict and have an open mind when coming to going easy on someone did a traffic mistake.

Last time I was the only one doing Taxi job and literally after I got my first client in a whole week, I got excited and drove rapidly to catch the client when I got pulled by the deputies, two cars and got fined for 270 something, when I explained the situation no fuck was given whatsoever.

Yeah I stand by my point, too many cops on the server.

Nobody is "starving" for an arrest. That way of thinking is ridiculous and not supported by a single shred of evidence nor can you even name an instance when this occurred. You run an intersection IRL you get pulled over and get a ticket. Same happens in-game, except a lot of the time we don't even issue the tickets to first time offenders. If you're annoyed that you're being pulled over repeatedly you should probably stop driving like this is GTA Online then. Stop blaming cops for your poor driving, stop blaming cops for being more active than the rest of the playerbase and stop blaming the decline in the playerbase on cops. The issues we're having have nothing to do with LEO roleplayers.

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1 hour ago, Jerome said:

Nobody is "starving" for an arrest. That way of thinking is ridiculous and not supported by a single shred of evidence nor can you even name an instance when this occurred. You run an intersection IRL you get pulled over and get a ticket. Same happens in-game, except a lot of the time we don't even issue the tickets to first time offenders. If you're annoyed that you're being pulled over repeatedly you should probably stop driving like this is GTA Online then. Stop blaming cops for your poor driving, stop blaming cops for being more active than the rest of the playerbase and stop blaming the decline in the playerbase on cops. The issues we're having have nothing to do with LEO roleplayers.

I got 135 minutes of prison time for an expired registration and expired license (this being before the update where the time to renew was made longer) you’re gonna sit here and tell me that law enforcement isn’t an issue? 
 

Not all LE role players are bad but to try and act like the police aren’t part of the problem is exactly that… the problem. 
 

I can literally pull up my discord since this server started where active players complained about the police, some incidents so ridiculous they left for other servers or quit in general. No one is targeting our LE but changes need to be made and if you’re gonna sit here and defend that without an open mind then I can see why this server has gone downhill in just 3 months. 

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8 minutes ago, .445 said:

I got 135 minutes of prison time for an expired registration and expired license (this being before the update where the time to renew was made longer) you’re gonna sit here and tell me that law enforcement isn’t an issue? 
 

Not all LE role players are bad but to try and act like the police aren’t part of the problem is exactly that… the problem. 
 

I can literally pull up my discord since this server started where active players complained about the police, some incidents so ridiculous they left for other servers or quit in general. No one is targeting our LE but changes need to be made and if you’re gonna sit here and defend that without an open mind then I can see why this server has gone downhill in just 3 months. 

But were you driving with no license and an expired registration? Was it your first offense? You gotta take things like that into consideration. Were you respectful to the cop that pulled you over and gave notice to you that your stuff was expired? I myself have just made people walk/impounded the car for having no license + no registration. Everyone isn't me and nobody is required to show that type of discretion. The same way a lot of you think cops are the issue, a lot of people actually thought the gangs running around with massive cache's of weapons as if we're in the middle of Fallujah was the problem. I'm not saying LEOs are perfect but don't paint the false image that this server's decline in the PB was a result of LEO roleplayers because it wasn't nor did it even contribute to it's decline. 

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8 hours ago, Jerome said:

Nobody is "starving" for an arrest. That way of thinking is ridiculous and not supported by a single shred of evidence nor can you even name an instance when this occurred. You run an intersection IRL you get pulled over and get a ticket. Same happens in-game, except a lot of the time we don't even issue the tickets to first time offenders. If you're annoyed that you're being pulled over repeatedly you should probably stop driving like this is GTA Online then. Stop blaming cops for your poor driving, stop blaming cops for being more active than the rest of the playerbase and stop blaming the decline in the playerbase on cops. The issues we're having have nothing to do with LEO roleplayers.

I'll be real, you've made the same point twice about people only being pulled over for driving like it's "GTA Online", but in reality its because the player count is low so you're going to want to find something to do right? I don't mind cops being crooked or not following the rules ICly, i've actually enjoyed the difference in the attitudes of cops on RAGE compared to SAMP, but the point Cursed King made is correct and no red tester name and opinion is gonna change the majority of the servers opinion based on our "poor driving". What ever happened to less police activity in Davis? Because when i'm online now and even before the player base dropped, there was still more police in Davis than any other faction.

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11 hours ago, fakedrainer said:

I'll be real, you've made the same point twice about people only being pulled over for driving like it's "GTA Online", but in reality its because the player count is low so you're going to want to find something to do right? I don't mind cops being crooked or not following the rules ICly, i've actually enjoyed the difference in the attitudes of cops on RAGE compared to SAMP, but the point Cursed King made is correct and no red tester name and opinion is gonna change the majority of the servers opinion based on our "poor driving". What ever happened to less police activity in Davis? Because when i'm online now and even before the player base dropped, there was still more police in Davis than any other faction.

You can thank all the guns, constant shootouts and chases for bringing back all the police in Davis. They tried withdrawing from Davis and it only got worse, which caused them to come back.

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19 hours ago, .445 said:

I got 135 minutes of prison time for an expired registration and expired license (this being before the update where the time to renew was made longer) you’re gonna sit here and tell me that law enforcement isn’t an issue? 
 

Not all LE role players are bad but to try and act like the police aren’t part of the problem is exactly that… the problem. 
 

I can literally pull up my discord since this server started where active players complained about the police, some incidents so ridiculous they left for other servers or quit in general. No one is targeting our LE but changes need to be made and if you’re gonna sit here and defend that without an open mind then I can see why this server has gone downhill in just 3 months. 

135 minutes doesn't add up to that. What's your IG name? I'm betting there's more to that story.

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12 hours ago, fakedrainer said:

I'll be real, you've made the same point twice about people only being pulled over for driving like it's "GTA Online", but in reality its because the player count is low so you're going to want to find something to do right? I don't mind cops being crooked or not following the rules ICly, i've actually enjoyed the difference in the attitudes of cops on RAGE compared to SAMP, but the point Cursed King made is correct and no red tester name and opinion is gonna change the majority of the servers opinion based on our "poor driving". What ever happened to less police activity in Davis? Because when i'm online now and even before the player base dropped, there was still more police in Davis than any other faction.

We withdrew from Davis and this is what happened: https://streamable.com/eblpcc

 

Full on gangland style shootings every 15 minutes. Illegal roleplayers did that to themselves. A majority of the server does not share the same opinion you share, only the people who are in denial about their subpar driving, constant shooting and refusal to take ownership for their mistakes share that opinion.  

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On 8/31/2023 at 3:17 AM, Jerome said:

That's definitely not why most people are not motivated to play. When the server first launched, it was peaking 300 players. Connection issues came and went, it started peaking just over 200. Then slowly reduced to about 150, 120, 100 and now we're struggling to maintain over 70 players. If you're gonna say that that decline is caused by cops then you're a lost cause. Throughout several months the server has been up, there was a point where cops were massively outnumbered by civilians and gang members. Our last recruitment drive is the only recruitment drive where we recently took in anywhere near 10 new recruits. The last few have been very selective, we were taking in 3-5 recruits a month. Driving around in a Buffalo STX running intersection and driving like this is GTA Online is the reason why most people are pulled over. Drive more realistic and you won't get pulled over.

u cant see our perspective because your one of them, regardless of how many players the server once had or has now, or when recruitment is open or not, it is a absolute fact that this server was way too populated with cops, i played non stop since release till a few weeks back and every other player was a cop, using the excuse of gang members arent active anymore is not true at all, it has always been like this, you lot would drive around Davis non stop thirsty for arrests, I said it back then that power hungry cops that dont give a fuck about other peoples perspective in RP and just wanna arrest arrest arrest to satisfy their own enjoyment will ruin the server, and we can talk about lack of features/updates and whatnot, but a factor in the player base dropping has 100% been because people just got fed up of cops on their dick 24/7

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