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This is very easy to fix. The root of all problems is people don’t understand it’s nit nerdy to approach your character realistically. You joined LSRP, this is not gtaw or whatever. You don’t need to be a legendary roleplayer. All you need is immersing yourself in that character. From that discord chat we had earlier some even blatantly said they rather have mid tier roleplay. But this is not a mid tier roleplay server. We’re not asking you to be a God and breathe roleplay. no no examples: - suicide to avoid whatever: you’re pulled over because someone said you’re dealing drugs. You also have a gun on you. You know that’s maybe 2 hours in prison. You start evading. Which is fine, gang gang evades cops when dealing drugs and also pack heat. But what you decide to do next sets you apart, or keeps you in the idlestacks / mallrat category. The cops will eventually stop you. Now, do you get out and run? That’s fine, run. Do you turn around and shoot at them? Bad. It’s not play2win for the cops if they arrest you. You made a series of bad calls which led to you being caught lacking with drugs and guns on you. - taking everything as a joke: I see people trying to steal cars from outside the sd / pd hq. I see people doing all sorts of unrealistic things in plain sight or on very busy streets. That’s bad. Someone mentioned vato locos rp’ers are people who miss out on their social life just to rp. That’s not the case. Logging in 1 hour a day and providing quality rp is a matter of skill and wanting to improve yourself. I personally got shot by Nueve Flats but it all felt realistic and there was no foolery involved. It was my character’s fault. - the idlestack gangs: maybe some of f you know, go to Tahitians and you’ll be offered guns in 5 seconds. The whole gang is so subpar that it touches on cringe. People shouting shop open yall shop open. They apparently have hundreds of weapons and they are not part of the weapon scheme. One individual especially seems to be the top dog. What’s even funnier, earlier on discord he told a tester to ban pf boys. His /me’s are ridiculous and he expresses things that border on pg or mg. He’s also the first person ever to react to a misclick. In whatever years of lsrp nobody ever reacted to a misclick punch from me. Not only that, he’s got numerous reports on him for baiting, dm’ing and provoking people. 30piecesofsilver probably can tell who I’m talking about. The fact that this individual managed to talk himself out of ajails so many times and continues to spread noobness while thinking he’s great is just weird. I can rant here for hours. I know people don’t react very good to people who speak out. They start calling us cringe and whatever. The fact is, you agreed to join a hardcore roleplay server. Don’t act surprised and almighty when people want you to adhere to hardcore standards.

Hello SCANDALOUZ, even if I hate to say it you are right. First off, honestly the biggest issue when it comes to role-play is the street gangs issue. Street gangs deathmatchers are representing over 80%(aprox) of the forums report and ban appeals. Go check it out for yourself if you don't believe me. So clearly that's the first thing we need to address. Why are street gangs an issue (Not every players but a lot of them). Well they're an issue since they have a mentality that winning a shootout means success, somehow. When in reality they should go play on GTA online. The whole point of the server is to create a narrative experience for yourself and the ones around it, may it be in passive or active scenes. You have to understand that legal factions, such as the fire departments are going to get burnt out because of y'alls constant shootouts. It HAS to stop. I don't care if we have to cut half our player base and ban these guys. They're not creating role-play anyways but rather hurting the server more than helping it. They're extremely toxic ooc and post deathmatching videos in their own faction threads... Like bro who cares? It's cool maybe once in a while but anyone can pull up a gun on someone not expecting it. You're not cooler because you kill people every single day. How do you fix it? Harder punishment (I know staff is going easy because of player pop), yeah we'll lose players but we'll gain quality. It's not like we need those deathmatchers anyways. I agree 100% with forced ck if you do any suicide by cops. If you put yourself in the shoes of your character would you REALLY want to die instead of prison. Most likely not, go watch situations after pursuits and shootouts in real life. You'll see they surrender most of the time because at the end of the day we're all deep down scared of dying. Forcing ck's would decrease the amount of dumb 1 gangster vs 10 guys shootout dramatically. One of the other issues that needs addressing is PF license. Now prices got jacked up to insane amounts where a car is worth 2 pistols.... Not the right approach guys. We need ooc rules that makes sense and are somewhat realistic. First ooc rule, if you are associated criminals organizations that "Fly the colors" then you cannot apply or own a PF license, and if you lie you get banned and PF license banned. Other ooc rule, no selling of firearms through the PF license program unless APPROVED by administration. Why? Because you get people making characters just to get guns and sell them or give to their friends. Why only street gangs, you hate them? No I don't but their RP for the most part is really poor, and they shoot people for no reasons.... Some of the street gangs have proper RP and props to them, but right now it's a minority and I don't side with cops or street gangs, I'm literally a meter maid in game... "COPS TURF CAMPS DAVIS/RANCHO/STRAWBERRY ALL DAY" You guys are the literal reason why they do, not their fault you create shootouts every 5 mins....

Personal takeaway so far (as result of the ongoing conversation) #1 - The majority of the community agrees that there has to be some form of consequences for actions and stupidity (even if not instant CK) and if I can take the liberty to expand on that, I would word it like this: We need systems and policies in place that automatically discourage stupid behavior and subsequently help prevent it from happening in a first place as opposed to waiting for it to happen and then having to deal with it via forum reports and etc. For the sake of everyone. ---------- IC Actions = IC Consequences has been a topic that has been picking up steam all across the community from a decent while now. You can see it implicated across several general discussion threads as well as all over discord servers. Kane has asked me to write him a forum PM on the matter when I started bitching over to him as well. So, I am writing this thread, which I will forum PM to Kane. I'm writing it here and subsequently posting it in public, because I feel like a lot of people have some form of an opinion on this and it would be nice to have a more proper discussion. Honestly, a /lot/ has been said on the topic. A lot of suggestions, debates and any of that. I've taken the liberty of taking a lot of the shit that I have been personally bitching about all over discord and running it by ChatGPT to just "easily compile" it into a more easier and pleasant to read textwall. Just to avoid me having to re-write a boatload about the same thing over, and over and over again. With nothing further to do, here are my very generalized and simplified two cents on the matter. I'm willing to expand upon all the topics like I have been all over discord, but I think this should be enough to get a conversation started. ------------ Our server is designed to prioritize realism and immersive roleplay. We aim to create a sense of development and progression in the game world. For instance, our economy is somewhat hardcore, so owning a 500k car carries significant meaning. However, there is an issue we need to address. While we have well-defined systems in place to reward players for their successes and achievements, we lack mechanisms for meaningful consequences when things go wrong. This creates an imbalance in our RP approach, leaning towards a play-to-win culture, where once you acquire something, you keep it forever, regardless of your actions. To rectify this, I would like to see the implementation of policies that actually bring meaningful consequences to our server and world. One idea is to enforce character kills (CKs) for players engaging in suicidal behavior, such as taking on overwhelming odds against the police. Life sentences, faction shutdowns and asset removal/confiscation are also examples of suggetions aimed for more significant and meaningful consequences. I believe that roleplay etiquette should reflect the principle of Actions = Consequences. Currently, our community seems divided between those who approach the server as a storytelling experience and those who treat it more like a cops and robbers RPG. If we want to incentivize a proper, RP-friendly approach, then that should involve facing the repercussions of one's actions. While I understand the concerns and various viewpoints within the community, we must decide on a cohesive philosophy for the server. We claim (I believe?) to be a heavy RP server, but recent events have shown instances where actions lacked meaningful motives or consequences, leading to disputes between players. To maintain the integrity of the server and ensure a more consistent experience, we need to reconcile these clashing philosophies and choose a clear direction. This process may require making tough decisions, but it's essential to create a balanced and immersive environment for everyone. ------------ This conversation starter in mind, I'd like to see some of the other vocal people about the matter on discord come in here and expand on to this entire thing and generally leave their two cents as well. This is a better place to have the topic than on messy discord anyway. TLDR: We want to eat the cake, but to have it too. This applies to this entire thing and every side involved. Players do, the staff does with the policies implemented (or not) and etc. EDIT: Please note that this isn't about the implementation of forced CKs or anything in particular. This is about coming forward and sharing your two cents and admitting that there is indeed a problem (I believe that there is). I believe that we first need to, collectively and as a community, actually agree that there is indeed a problem. Only when we do that - we can actually sit down and talk about how to combat it. The point is - don't grasp onto the *specific* systems/policies. Grasp onto whether there is a problem or not to begin with. EDIT 2: You cannot please everyone, but by doing nothing you're upsetting BOTH/ALL sides. You need to actually decide on a vision for this roleplaying project and go forth with it, so people know what to expect. EDIT 3: I want to make this clear that this is NOT a shot at neither the administration, nor a particular section of the community. We all have our different views and takes on things. We all like different things and I'm no one to judge any of you. Not to mention the administration does all this administrating for free. This is just role players discussing roleplaying and things surrounding it as far as I'm concerned. It's all coming from a good place and the desire to have better and better role play in the game server. For all its worth, I think the administration as a whole has been doing a good job in "listening" to the community, and this is just me trying to be heard on yet another subject.

I'd like some type of a more enforced system/regulation towards CK so we won't have 'roleplayers' shooting towards SWAT and laughing because he is roleplaying to be a baddassbitchbossmob.

Heavy roleplay is all about focusing on displaying emotions, showing how your character learns from the situations he takes part in or witness but when the most basic rule for any game "Do not die" becomes simply normal IN A HEAVY ROLEPLAY ENVIORMENT for players because why not I'll just respawn without any consequence (Other than losing my shit which is fine I'll grind them back). How does this benefit your character's development or it's story? How does this help keep the server's standards? If the most simple thing can not be done which is portraying fear why should people roleplay being sad, happy or angry. If you decide it's fine to start shooting when you're outnumbered or you are at gunpoint and you gave no regards to your characters life, why does your character has to stay alive? What sort of actions have they shown that they really value their life? I see this as completely inappropriate both IC and OOC and your character should face the IC consequence and you should face the OOC consequence for failing to roleplay fear. EDIT: Characters won't have any kind of depth if this kind of activity will remain allowed. Everyone will keep death as the last escape plan to any difficult situation they endure because again they'll just respawn as if they did nothing. This will lead to a big series of non-rp events.

Trying to play nice between those who see the server as a storytelling platform and those who approach it as an RPG with cops and robbers elements is indeed a challenge. Establishing a clear philosophy for the server, one that encourages proper roleplay and meaningful decision-making, would likely contribute to a more satisfying and consistent experience for all participants.

I, for one, think our AI overlords are onto something here. More seriously, it feels like there are two communities embedded here and forced to “play nice” despite the irreconcilable differences. Historically when presented with a divide between hardcore roleplayers and sub-par roleplayers, the administrative answer has been to lower the standards and accommodate others. I submit that this is precisely the mindset that got the community to this point. LS-RP used to be the premier roleplaying experience that the whole SAMP community would flock to if they wanted balls deep serious roleplay. Over the years, it has fallen from that status into the likes of a glorified cops and robbers. But how do we fix this? —- Create a NVFL (No Value for Life) rule: In essence, this rule would capture any conduct in which the player demonstrates an unrealistic portrayal where their character clearly doesn’t value living. This will combat the “respawn” mentality by requiring players to roleplay as if their characters fear dying. A few exceptions might be if a character is bona fide suicidal, or is facing a life sentence and would rather die than go back to prison. The “punishment” for this rule should be a warning, admin jail, or ban if it doesn’t result in death. Or, if it results in their character dying, it should result in a character kill - particularly if the action is motivated by an OOC desire to avoid a lengthy prison sentence. There is a toxic mindset within the illegal RP community: “why would I roleplay 900 minutes in jail when I can just shoot back and get 0 minutes?” — shooting back when clearly outnumbered should result in a CK. A character doing something crazy and dying or getting life in prison should be a memorable act. Yet, as a Judge, I feel like I see the same 4 or 5 names on warrants multiple times per week… and they always end in “Suspect killed by PD/SD” or “Suspect killed by SWAT during warrant execution”. By shooting back, the whole consequence is avoided and a whole bunch of peoples time has been wasted… it takes PD/SD 10-15 minutes to apply for a warrant, it takes me 30 minutes to review the legality of said warrant, but it takes 60 seconds for a repeat shootout addict to shoot at a SWAT team and respawn. We need realistic consequences if we want to curate high quality roleplay. — “But Tungsten, what about people who can’t afford name changes?!?” 1. Everyone gets 1 free NC per month if they have none. 2. Allow freezing/thawing of characters. — Without rules, we are but savages. And if one half of society is obeying the rules (of roleplay) while the other is lawless then those who follow the rules are nothing but fodder to be abused by those who don’t care.

Phillip “Short-Cake” Battaglia- 1977, Liberty City. “Early Life” Phillip “Short-Cake” Battaglia was born January 3rd, 1956, in Hove Beach, Broker, Liberty City. Battaglia grew up in extreme poverty, in a mob-imprinted neighborhood, where wiseguys and crooks had a chokehold on local businesses. In Phil’s neighborhood, the only that mattered, were mob-guys. Throughout his childhood, Phillip painted a stereotype in his head, of what a working man is- a sucker. A submissive loser, who works hard all his life for a lousy pay, to pay off mortgage on his lousy house. It was engraved in Phillip’s mind at a young age, that he wouldn’t suffer the fait, of the average working man in his neighborhood. Besides powerful and well-structured crime organizations in the ‘70s and 80s, there were also many small street gangs in Liberty City, one of which was the “Hove Beach Gang”, who obviously stated by their name, operated in Hove Beach. Gangs like the “Hove Beach Gang”, were usually formed by young men, as well as teens, who didn’t have the age nor the notoriety to be picked up by mobsters. Some gangs had direct ties to organized crime families, but the “Hove Beach Gang”, was not one of them. In the early 70s, Phillip fell in with this wild bunch of misled teens, and quickly became a member of their clique. Phillip was an excellent car thief, as he knew everything there was to know about cars, since he had worked in his uncle’s auto shop since he was little. By hot-wiring and stealing cars, Phillip made a small fortune at a young age. “More Than The Eyes Can Bare” As much as Phillip felt at home with his new friends, who he now viewed as brothers, Phillip was levels ahead of the crooks he surrounded himself with, both mentally and when it came to making money. Phillip hadn’t progressed much when it came to rackets, as stealing cars, and selling certain parts, brought in enough money to please Phillip and fulfill his needs. On a late, snowy night in 1982, Phillip and his close friend, David DeMagnolio, decided to rob the house of an old lady, who supposedly was sitting on a bunch of cash, because she had no trust in banks. Phillip opened the front door with a lock pick, and the two headed inside. It was meant to be a clean job, the two were to sneak inside quietly, retrieve the money from the old lady, which was hidden in a small fireplace upstairs, and then get out of there. Unknowingly to Phillip, David had a .38 Smith & Wesson revolver tucked in his jeans. While David snuck upstairs to grab the money, Phillip searched the ground floor to find any valuables. Shortly after David went upstairs, Phillip heard a loud and haunting scream from the old lady, followed up by the roaring sound of a revolver being fired. Phillip ran upstairs, to find the old lady slumped over beside her bed. The wall and bedsheets were painted with her brains and blood splatter. For a minute, Phillip stood over the old lady in complete shock, before David grabbed his shoulder and said in a soothing voice: “I got the cash, Phill, let’s get the fuck outta’ here…” “Clean Slate” After that night, nobody saw Phillip’s face again. At first, people assumed he got picked up by the police and was now cooperating, but as time went by, it seemed he had just disappeared. In reality, Phillip was so shook up by the killing, that he packed his stuff immediately, and left for Los Santos the very next day. Phillip had family in Los Santos, so to him, it was an opportunity for a fresh start, and to ask the lord for forgiveness. Phillip planned to lead a straight life, free of murder and theft. In LS, Phillip got a job stocking shelves at a VHS store, but only showed up to work twice, before quitting the job. He then began driving trucks, and preferred it over stocking shelves. Phillip could spend time on the road, keeping to himself and his own thoughts. Sometime in the mid ‘80s, Phillip met his future wife, Catherine DeGrassi, who was a friend of his cousin. The two quickly fell in love, and it didn’t take long for them to move in together. Catherine didn’t work, so the two relied completely on Phillip’s short income. Phillip started working extra hard, over the next few years, but he was still making barely enough money to feed his wife. In 1988, Catherine became pregnant with Phillip’s child. Phillip knew right then and there, that if he wanted his kid to live a better life than his, he had to be able to provide for them, like his own parents never could. Phillip was determined to do so, no matter the cost. “The Accardo Connect” Through Phillip’s older cousin, Phillip got connected to a guy named Henry Rossi. Henry Rossi was a soldier with the Accardo crew, a crew that was linked to the biggest crime organization in Los Santos at the time. Henry was a middle-aged, half-assed wiseguy, with roots going back to Sicily, like Phillip himself. Phillip met Henry at a bar called “The Tatz Janeesa”, where Phillip offered Henry truckloads of electronics and other valuables, if Henry was willing to pay Phillip a commissions fee. Henry, being the eager Guinea he was, of course agreed without hesitation. And just like that, Phillip was connected to the San Andreas Crime Family. Throughout the course of a year, Phillip and Henry surprisingly grew very close. Henry spotted an inner soldier in Phillip, and therefor viewed him as more of a muscleman, than a truck driver. Eventually, Henry offered Phillip a full time position, working under him, as an associate to the Accardo crew. With a newborn son in the house, Phillip quickly agreed. “The Rise Of Short-Cake” In LS during the late 80s, most guys were scoring dope, or scoring bets and loans. Since Phillip was horrible with numbers, he decided to dabble into the coke business. Through Henry, Phillip had a connect who could offer grade-A cocaine at a fair price. Phillip wasn’t a dealer. His job was to buy the pure cocaine from his connect, and sell it to smaller fish in the sea. In ‘89, Phillip established a solid name and reputation for himself, in the underground world of Los Santos. Phillip was later given the nickname “Short-Cake” due to his tiny size. The early 90s were a glorious time. Phillip was kitted in Fila Tracksuits and Cartier watches, distributing cocaine like it was ice cream, and with that, polluting the streets and poisoning its citizens. Catherine knew something was wrong, when over the course of three years, Phillip moved the family from a 2 bedroom bungalow, to a 4 bedroom colonial home. However she enjoyed the fruits of Phillip’s labor, and therefor said nothing. Phillip now had two children: His oldest child, Robert Battaglia, and his youngest child, Isabella Battaglia. Although Phillip wasn’t home much, he loved his children to death. In 1998, things took a turn for the worst. Phillip was ordered by Henry Rossi, to kill an old, Jewish bookmaker in Las Venturas. Initially, Phillip abstained from doing it, since it secretly brought him back to when he witnessed an old lady get shot, but after little persuasion, Phillip agreed. In his Lexus SC300, Phillip drove to Las Venturas, with a gun in the waistband of his tracksuit pants, and a small picture of his target. Upon arriving late at night, Phillip drove straight to the bookie-office, and waited for the man to leave. After an hour, Phillip saw an obese man with a pointy nose, stagger out of the front door of the shop with a hunched-over back posture. Phillip slid out of his car, and walked towards the man, who was locking the door to his office. Phillip withdrew his gun and shot the man in the back of the head. As Phillip turned around to get back into his car, he saw a young couple across the street, looking straight at him. Both the couple and Phillip froze. Phillip abruptly ran to his car, and jumped back into the Lexus, speeding off. It took the cops two days to find Phillip, and when police came knocking at his door to take him away, he complied. Phillip was charged with first-degree murder, and was sentenced to 30 years in prison, with the possibility of parole. “The Fall Of Short-Cake” In 2004, Catherine Battaglia was diagnosed with lung cancer. She passed away the same year, leaving their two children as orphans. Phillip was devastated. He was at an all-time low. He tried several times to write letters to his kids, but got no word back. In prison, Phillip suffered from severe depression and anxiety. In 2023, Phillip was granted parole, and was finally released back onto the street. The streets that he once knew, had now changed completely. The game that he once knew, had new players, but the exact same rules. As an old man in Los Santos, Phillip is completely unknown. The reputation he spent years building, has now completely vanished. He is now nothing but a washed-up, old man. A shell of a tough-guy. In Phillip’s mind, at the ripping age of 66, there is no other thing he can do, than try to regain the reputation he once had.

Hey everyone! Ain't gonna introduce myself properly yet as I am new to this community (and I wanna do it by roleplaying, not texting on the forum). As a start, I am an old RPer (RPing since 2014), and I write this because I was asked for my opinion. I will start on saying that I will not go back in my history, resuming old situations from my past, just like these, where CRITICAL problems couldn't be solved (opened myself a few topics just like this a few times), and the servers ended up in closing/or with 10 players playing. The discussion's not about this, I know, just wanted to make my position straight from the start, so that you know that I am familiar with this situations. I will say this: if your character finds himself/herself in a sensible spot, and you choose to do something EXTREME, there should be CONSQUENCES and that's it. From here it separates into two: OOC CONSQUENCES and IC CONSEQUENCES. As for example, in no way somebody will pull out a gun when he is aimed at already, or choose to shoot if he/she is outnumbered or knows that will be outnumbered soon. If you don't know ICly with who you deal with, you never choose extreme situations, because it's not realistic and roleplay at all (everybody gets scared by something I can assure you), and especially not without detailed character development. If you do know that you are not under threat and you have an advantage (automatic gun, pistol at you, and let's say you only deal with a group of drunk guys, unafilliated, just messing with you) then it's just not an extreme situation, to be honest. It's about focusing on what your character knows, in that point, and what not. A solution that I thought of, from what my brain can 💩right now, is creating a detailed rule (can't think about a name right now), detailing what risks there could be ICly and OOCly if somebody chooses an extreme action. Besides that, massive DM (here reffering to killing all day for being bored, constant need for fun or just to avoid certain scenarios, unable to create fun RP and etc.) starts from only one, let's say, position players find themselves into: there are too many guns and too little as-fun-as-DM roleplay. I think that, in general, this has roots in the general idea that constant shootouts are much more fun that character development and roleplay. Which is not ok from my opinion and is very, very hard to change in everybody. Guns should mean, in the first place, protection and safety, and after that a source of income. It's not realistic to think about guns as just weapons. The rest of this subject I thought it's not worth repeating because you talked about it already. Won't help. I hope that what I wrote will help, because I am a new guy and I can only talk from what I can see, for now. I am not a direct "victim" of the problems mentioned here, just talking from my experience and what I understood the problems are. But in the future I wish I won't encounter these problems, and this is my personal reason why I wrote this. Peace to y'all. (P.S. I hope I was on point)

It's going to turn into world's vibe of a DM haven. You're totally right, it's starting to slip and sadly, it's not going to stop unless something is done.

+ Support, I won't go in to chapter and verse most of this has been covered but i'll add my supporting comments which is thus. If you want quantity, quality leaves, if you want quality then quantity will follow. The quality of RP currently is shocking, LSRP has always been known as a med-heavy RP server and it's currently cops and robbers almost, it's pretty appauling and there is barely any action to fix it, consequences for poor behaviour in here is non-existent almost, currently LSRP has some solid support from quality RPers but that will soon fade and it will be left with with nothing but an empty shell, sadly.

Here's my opinion on this. I feel like rather than focusing on the CK aspect of the issue itself, a much constructive solution lies within the PK system. Without the courtesy of taking a CK for yourself, all of our characters are immortal to some point. So I would change PKs as a "brutally wounded" state rather than "this player is dead". In that scenario, using a /respawnme means that you've been taken out of there by medical personel with the company of police officers, not requiring actual EMS and PD characters to act out its RP (since it would not be feasible with the current amount of shootouts). You were carrying any illegal materials like drugs or unlicensed gun? You respawn in prison with a sentence, based on what you were carrying. Talking about 4-8 IG hours here (Might also be a contribution to the Prison RP itself). Increase that if actual PDs were there in the moment of your death and they've witnessed additional crimes of yours, so they can apply a modifier to your character when you're lying on the ground. All of these gets in your criminal record too. Not carrying any illegals or no witness for your crime? Respawn in hospital. Obvious counter line to this is the void of memory and Revenge Kill rule. I know that this might be too much of a playing with the core rules but I would simply remove the memory erase factor out of the rules. We already have lots of faction engagement rules with the whole reasoning behind being OOC order. So, RK does not need an erase of memory to be enforced. Is it kinda unreasonable for a character to know that they've been brutally wounded by someone but can't act on it? Yes, in that case, my actual go-to would be allowing RK, but actually giving a CK-claim chance to your initial killer if you die during your Revenge Kill attempt, since this is a high risk attempt. This would also force the killed individual into planning their Revenge Kill more comprehensively. A better solution might also come out for this, so feel free to drop your opinion on this. What if I'm a drug dealer or a regular unlicensed gun carries that got caught in crossfire? Might be a controversial though but I also see this as a win-win since this would also work against the whole server walking around with their unlicensed Locke 71s and actually strapping themselves when it's needed. If you actually think that you were a victim in a DM situation, there's always an appeal solution. This would also force drug dealers to do the trade in much safer venues like back alleys or actual interiors. Back in the old SAMP days, I got a lot of jail time for constantly doing carjacks and joyrides like a goofball. You know when I tried to put more confidentiality or risk management into my act? Once the jail time surpassed the 2-hour mark. TL;DR, the whole CK discussion brings a ton of OOC problems with it like name change prices to player retention issues. I would say making a critical change in the PK and /respawnme functionalities by linking it with the IC prison system could do wonders. Only the RK rule itself would have to be rethought at that point.

Something has to give here. I'll repost what I said in discord. The other night when I was doing an opening... It was totally ruined by a DMer who came in and called people every slur in the book. Some people took offense to this, rp fist fight ensues... Then they randomly scrolled a pistol, gunned down the entire establishment, someone managed to kill them, they disconnected. Shortly thereafter, admin comes and revives us but the scene was ruined completely and no consequences were doled out to the offender to my knowledge. Very unfortunate.

A Forced CK is nothing but an IC consequence for not fearing for your character's life. There has to be an another OOC punishment WITH THE FORCED CK to stop this suicidal behavior from ruining every scenario.

Personal takeaway so far (as result of the ongoing conversation) #1 - The majority of the community agrees that there has to be some form of consequences for actions and stupidity (even if not instant CK) and if I can take the liberty to expand on that, I would word it like this: We need systems and policies in place that automatically discourage stupid behavior and subsequently help prevent it from happening in a first place as opposed to waiting for it to happen and then having to deal with it via forum reports and etc. For the sake of everyone. Also and to take the topic into a slightly different direction for a moment We've been yapping about IC consequences, but what about OOC ones and generally becoming more strict and cracking down on stupity. For example, even some admins admit that sometimes stupid shit going on is obvious, but since they have no means to prove it, they cannot do anything about it, otherwise they would get crucified by another portion of the community. This is why change has to come from the top floors. Management has to trust, empower and encourage its administration to do their job. For example, tell the faction team to start shutting down bullshit "factions" that seem to contribute nothing but shootouts to the server. And give FT the ability to do so on their own accord and judgement as opposed to having the need of someone writing 30 reports with 3 days of their online time recorded in 4K for anything to happen. And more off topic for a second @ROZE deserves flowers for actively participating in this discussion (as a member of the staff) to the best of his ability, despite even being grilled here and there. Major props. I would /love/ to see other admins and generally staff members to come and share their two cents and personal views both as players/roleplayers as well as admins on the situation as well. But especially as players. Once again, this thread is for management and asking for procedural/policy changes from the top floors. This isn't the community witch-hunting the "blue collar" administration team.

This is the kind of tone, reasoning and approach that I can get behind. Admitting there is a problem and figuring out what to do about it, even if not necessarily CKs. That's the point of the discussion, not CKs. Because simply saying "there's forum reports we already have a system" and etc isn't enough. It clearly isn't working. Like I mentioned earlier on, it's about designing systems that automatically discourage stupid behavior and subsequently prevent it from happening in a first place, as opposed to waiting it happen and then having to deal with it over forum reports and etc.

I really don't think forced CKs would even fix much, the kinds of people you're talking about don't exactly favour character development, if given a free CK they'd just link back up with their old buddies and do the same thing, if anything I think it would devalue a CK There are other ways to handle this, we just need to figure it out

This is fallacious reasoning, attempting to use the way it is to justify the way it should be. It is mind-boggling to me that enforced perma-deaths are a non-starter on a server once known widely as the pinnacle of GTA Roleplaying. I suspect this mindset comes from the same place as the behaviors we're all lambasting here - "game mentality". If we don't enforce CKs, we give the everyday criminal an easy "get out of jail free card" - shoot at the cops. It completely messes up the balance, and makes it so people translate use their OOC motivation (not wanting to spend 900 minutes in prison) into IC motivation for a character to commit suicide-by-cop. It's absurd, and leads to ever-deteriorating roleplay standards. By enforcing CKs, you make a character death meaningful and you get several results: People will surrender to the police more, because they don't want their character to be perma-death'd. Especially with SWAT... no sane person would shoot back at SWAT unless they had a death-wish. When a character does decide to die "in a hail of gunfire", it will be a major event that other characters will "remember" if they saw it. Funerals for characters who get perma-death'd = large-scale roleplay event, can also affect other characters' "emotions". If we want LS-RP to return to a status as "King" of the GTA roleplay scene, this is the only way. This can be solved by doing 1 free namechange per month (if the account has 0 namechanges). It would be low-risk for abuse, because if Mr. Gangbotter dies by the police he cannot make the a new gangbot clone until the next month.

Well, then to add to this, then give another character slot, force the CK and if they can't afford 5$ then they make a new character, and lose their assets. Otherwise suicide by cops will continue and all of the dming as well. We're on the edge of having DOC in the game, but it'll be mostly empty since people will die to avoid prison. "Like a reset character slot"

Because? Someone mentioned that one of the main problems with CKs is character slots and name changes costing real life money. Basically two fundamental problems come when CK's are involved. 1. We either give free namechanges upon forced CK, and essentially the consequence is nil anyway because generic gang banger #1231 becomes generic gang banger #2817381 and is right back at it. 2. We don't, and we end up in a situation where people are forced to pay to play since they are running out of character slots. To that I said: "The inability to delete CKed characters and subsequently running out of slots and having to spend IRL cash to name change sounds like a development flaw/shortcoming/oversight that can be fixed and furthermore - the unwillingness to implement more meaningful IC consequences such as character kills and excusing that with said development oversight sounds... Sorry, but unserious. " EDIT: Half this community memes GTA:W for being a "shit-tier" RP server and even they enforce CKs for stupid shit. So what that make us?

I think the implementation of an official consequences rule that details how consequences must be roleplayed would help increase player awareness, improve admin intervention and make players think twice, so they don't break any rules We won't be forcing any CKs, we agreed this internally as we don't want to create situations where people are forced to pay for things Regarding the comment above me, $5 doesn't have the same value everywhere in the world

A name change costs 5 bucks, 5.50USD/5Euros I don't care if you have to pay for it, if you can't afford 5 bucks once in a while to give a minimal support to a freely hosted server then I don't know what to say. 5 bucks, just don't go to starbuck for a day, ain't no way you can't afford 5$

I done told y’all on Discord that CKs aren’t gonna be implemented and that this is literally a waste of time. This has been a discussion for so long and each of these debates ended in the same way; it goes up to an X number of pages, eventually gets heated or doesn’t, admin makes the last comment “We are not going to be forcing CKs on this server, this conversation is over.” and lock the thread. Kudos to everyone still trying though, but you gotta remember this is the way LSRP operates and the way it’ll continue operating.

Oh and opened 2 random street gangs faction thread and yup, bunch of dming stuff Not flaming, just being real. I opened 2 RANDOM faction threads and this is what I see.... (On their last page)