Usage of /me and /do

[Tungsten]

3 hours ago, Nature said:

Indeed there is occasions where /me is misused, and incites MG. There's nothing stopping you from having a friendly conversation with the player via /PM and explaining how they're misusing the command. I tend to point it out wherever I can, but I think it's just been accepted on other servers, and a lot of players on V have come from other communities. 

 

As multiple players have suggested, though, the notion of "inciting MG" is fallacious. By adding extra details that a person might not know, additional hard-to-describe detail can be added to the painting. For example with /me feels confident in his new jacket -- clearly the character is not just standing there with the emotion of confidence, but rather some physical action is associated with that confidence. Perhaps the character is walking with some bravado, or rolling back his shoulders, or some other gesture that exudes confidence. Rather than describe each individual action, the more succinct form of feeling confident portrays the correct amount of detail.

 

Just because this is how LS-RP has used roleplay emoting for years doesn't make it the most correct manner to do it. The same logic i'm sure was applied by NGG servers that often used the S/F style of roleplay that we all agree was incorrect. Similarly, some may come onto LS-RP and find the way we use /me to be insufficient and incorrect... that doesn't make them wrong.

 

And to the issue of inciting MG - this is a completely nonsensical concept, regardless of it being in the rules. If you include some information that I wouldn't know in a /me, you have not "incited" me to MG -- rather, you have created a mere opportunity where I might MG. If someone metagames, the violation of the rules should not be on the person who performed the /me but the person who used information they wouldn't know in-character. In short, unless you are hovering over my keyboard and typing for me there is no way for you to induce me to metagame... that action can come from another player alone.

[SCANDALOUZ]

15 hours ago, Stinkywinky said:

 

AND AGAIN! I move back to the topic, as roleplay evolved into these types of /me and /do's? OR is this wrong of people to roleplay this kind of way?

 

 

What you are implying/discussing is a very small snippet of a bigger, fundamental problem that has plagued roleplaying communities, and GTA ones especially from years now.

 

Roleplaying "culture", habits and execution has shifted from the original storytelling and immersive experience, with a focus on development, cohesive storylines, arcs and etc to a much lighter, more RPG/avatar-ish esq. approach - where it's all about "quick wins", one hour "events" and then just moving on to the next one.

 

Why? A lot of reasons, if I had to summarize them somehow I would say:

 

- The old school roleplayers that grew up being taught these fundamentals either no longer play, or no longer have nearly enough the free time to invest in the depth that they used to.

- In parallel, the "new generation" is in a way still learning, while also being brought into entirely different systems and culture as a whole.

- The massive advancements in features/scripts that roleplaying communities now offer. I have a whole,  borderline thesis on this - that advanced and in depth scripts are fundamental enemy of roleplaying. A lot of roleplaying is about creative writing and imagination. When you have so many scripts telling you what you can and can't do, and how and where you can do it, the less you have to worry about figuring out anything to storytell yourself. Fantasy RP and "RPG Spell Books" are a good example. Say you are roleplaying this grand wizard. Why should you bother to come up with a creative way to get out of a sticky situation, when you have "teleport away" spell in your spell book, that you have paid 6 skill points for... Another good example of how "system design" and how "less can be more" can create a completely different experience in the same setting is Left 4 Dead vs Back 4 Blood.

- Massive spikes in OOC communication, Discord. When we were all starting, we didn't know each other OOCly for the most part, and for the most part we didn't care to either. There were skype cliques every here and there, but nothing on the massive scale that it is now. The community is essentially the same, rotating between servers from more than a decade now. That many years later, for better or worse and whether we like it or not - we are very familiar with each other on an OOC level. That matters and influences interactions and the effort put around them. Even the "most elitist" roleplayers are in the end of the day, human too. So, yeah.

 

How to fix this, assuming it's a problem?

 

In general, I don't think we can. The GTA RP community will never be as serious as some hardcore pen and paper dungeon masters.

 

One thing we can do is better system design. When you design whatever system, script, policy and etc - you have to look at it from a variety of perspectives and especially ask yourself the question; What kind of behavior does this incentivise? What is the META here? Does it promote/encourage depth and effort, or does it make more sense for a person to just min max the system for the ultimate benefit? Most people will always chose the easiest/most efficient way to tackle a situation/use a feature. Does that easiest/most efficient way create roleplay, is it irrelevant to storytelling, or worse - does it hamper it?

 

There's borderline science behind storytelling (if you want to consider psychology an actual science) or creating settings for such. Frankly, most systems and policies being designed these days are, while not necessarily lazy - at the very least not well thought of / troubleshooted nearly as much as they should be.

 

Actual LSRP examples of system designs and features that do nothing to promote roleplay, and might even hamper it:

 

- Essentially no consequences to dying. No medical bills (soon TM I been told), no asset loss at all, no suicide by cop to avoid jail time rewarding you with a full blown CK, etc.

- Trucking. Trucking and the way that it is designed, promotes no roleplay at all. It's in players best interest to /race/ thru town and the script, just to get the maximum money they can for the least time possible.

 

Actual LSRP examples of good systems that aid/promote roleplay:

- Tapering. It stops you from RPGing for the entire duration of your online time, and more importantly - it gives you a moment to relax and actually roleplay more, without fear or worry that every second that you are not working, you are essentially at a disadvantage against those that do.

- Fishing. The script is actually good in it's core. Yes, the actual fishing is automated, but it forces you to "stay on the computer" as well. So in theory, if a couple of IC friends want to go fishing and have a few beers - they can easily do that with the assistance, not the grind of this feature.

 

Edited September 11, 2023 by SCANDALOUZ

[SCANDALOUZ]

4 hours ago, _CYBER_ said:

 

But you are definitely not mediocre roleplayers, I know this because I'm low to mid level myself. My standard for a high level roleplayer is a person who successfully plays deaf and dumb, using /me - /do commands according to the current rules and in the usual way. Not /me thinks. I know I'm far from that.

 

 

Your understanding/standards of "how good a roleplayer" someone is seem to be wrong. Being skilled in "emotes" is a very small part of what makes a good storyteller. You can be as detailed and as throughout as linguistically possible, but you can still essentially be writing a boatload of a) stupid shit b) unrealistic shit c) boring, bland, stereotypical shit d) all of the above.

[CYBER]

1 hour ago, SCANDALOUZ said:

 

Your understanding/standards of "how good a roleplayer" someone is seem to be wrong. Being skilled in "emotes" is a very small part of what makes a good storyteller. You can be as detailed and as throughout as linguistically possible, but you can still essentially be writing a boatload of a) stupid shit b) unrealistic shit c) boring, bland, stereotypical shit d) all of the above.

I thought it was obvious that I was not talking about PGers, NON-RPer, or anyone else. Rather, I'm evaluating two people with different types of /me's. Otherwise, of course, I agree that there is more to an RPer than emotes. Thanks for pointing it out. ^^

[trashstar]

2 hours ago, SCANDALOUZ said:

 

What you are implying/discussing is a very small snippet of a bigger, fundamental problem that has plagued roleplaying communities, and GTA ones especially from years now.

 

Roleplaying "culture", habits and execution has shifted from the original storytelling and immersive experience, with a focus on development, cohesive storylines, arcs and etc to a much lighter, more RPG/avatar-ish esq. approach - where it's all about "quick wins", one hour "events" and then just moving on to the next one.

 

Why? A lot of reasons, if I had to summarize them somehow I would say:

 

- The old school roleplayers that grew up being taught these fundamentals either no longer play, or no longer have nearly enough the free time to invest in the depth that they used to.

- In parallel, the "new generation" is in a way still learning, while also being brought into entirely different systems and culture as a whole.

- The massive advancements in features/scripts that roleplaying communities now offer. I have a whole,  borderline thesis on this - that advanced and in depth scripts are fundamental enemy of roleplaying. A lot of roleplaying is about creative writing and imagination. When you have so many scripts telling you what you can and can't do, and how and where you can do it, the less you have to worry about figuring out anything to storytell yourself. Fantasy RP and "RPG Spell Books" are a good example. Say you are roleplaying this grand wizard. Why should you bother to come up with a creative way to get out of a sticky situation, when you have "teleport away" spell in your spell book, that you have paid 6 skill points for... Another good example of how "system design" and how "less can be more" can create a completely different experience in the same setting is Left 4 Dead vs Back 4 Blood.

- Massive spikes in OOC communication, Discord. When we were all starting, we didn't know each other OOCly for the most part, and for the most part we didn't care to either. There were skype cliques every here and there, but nothing on the massive scale that it is now. The community is essentially the same, rotating between servers from more than a decade now. That many years later, for better or worse and whether we like it or not - we are very familiar with each other on an OOC level. That matters and influences interactions and the effort put around them. Even the "most elitist" roleplayers are in the end of the day, human too. So, yeah.

 

How to fix this, assuming it's a problem?

 

In general, I don't think we can. The GTA RP community will never be as serious as some hardcore pen and paper dungeon masters.

 

One thing we can do is better system design. When you design whatever system, script, policy and etc - you have to look at it from a variety of perspectives and especially ask yourself the question; What kind of behavior does this incentivise? What is the META here? Does it promote/encourage depth and effort, or does it make more sense for a person to just min max the system for the ultimate benefit? Most people will always chose the easiest/most efficient way to tackle a situation/use a feature. Does that easiest/most efficient way create roleplay, is it irrelevant to storytelling, or worse - does it hamper it?

 

There's borderline science behind storytelling (if you want to consider psychology an actual science) or creating settings for such. Frankly, most systems and policies being designed these days are, while not necessarily lazy - at the very least not well thought of / troubleshooted nearly as much as they should be.

 

Actual LSRP examples of system designs and features that do nothing to promote roleplay, and might even hamper it:

 

- Essentially no consequences to dying. No medical bills (soon TM I been told), no asset loss at all, no suicide by cop to avoid jail time rewarding you with a full blown CK, etc.

- Trucking. Trucking and the way that it is designed, promotes no roleplay at all. It's in players best interest to /race/ thru town and the script, just to get the maximum money they can for the least time possible.

 

Actual LSRP examples of good systems that aid/promote roleplay:

- Tapering. It stops you from RPGing for the entire duration of your online time, and more importantly - it gives you a moment to relax and actually roleplay more, without fear or worry that every second that you are not working, you are essentially at a disadvantage against those that do.

- Fishing. The script is actually good in it's core. Yes, the actual fishing is automated, but it forces you to "stay on the computer" as well. So in theory, if a couple of IC friends want to go fishing and have a few beers - they can easily do that with the assistance, not the grind of this feature.

 

 

what the fuck is blud waffling on about this time

[ImperiumXVII]

It's been a few years that this has been happening but it's generally been because of the hyper focus on screenshotting your roleplay.

 

"/me drives down the road in his stolen 93 cabriolet" is an example of something people do, which is primarily for screenshots.

 

I don't have an issue with it to create a narrative of what's going on, but I don't think it's valid to use during actual roleplay. It can be a good tool to catch other players up on what's going on, but at the same time players should learn what's going as their characters do imo

[ThePolterguise]

/me = what the person you interacting with SEES you do

the person you interacting with cannot know how you feel.

 

They cannnot read your mind - but they can read your body language

so, you'll have to work around it, for example -

DON'T - /me thinks kissing John is disgusting

DO -  /me would make a disgusted face after hearing the offer to kiss John

 

in both scenarios, if John is infront of you, he will think that you think that kissing him is disgusting, but one of the /mes makes sense and the other isnt.

 

I think a good RPer, well, actually, half of the reason for being a good RPer, is to have that good usage of the /me and /do

in a way where when you interact with another person, that person understands 100% of any action, mood, facial expression, feeling that you output and can follow up on that situation.

If hes confused, not understanding the situation (which can mean he will follow with weird /mes of his own that will make you confused) or even using /do to ask you this or that (like, what do you do, how you react, all of that) -- means you're doing something wrong.

 

Thats my 2 cents about it.

[ImperiumXVII]

On 9/13/2023 at 12:05 PM, ThePolterguise said:

/me = what the person you interacting with SEES you do

the person you interacting with cannot know how you feel.

 

They cannnot read your mind - but they can read your body language

so, you'll have to work around it, for example -

DON'T - /me thinks kissing John is disgusting

DO -  /me would make a disgusted face after hearing the offer to kiss John

 

in both scenarios, if John is infront of you, he will think that you think that kissing him is disgusting, but one of the /mes makes sense and the other isnt.

 

I think a good RPer, well, actually, half of the reason for being a good RPer, is to have that good usage of the /me and /do

in a way where when you interact with another person, that person understands 100% of any action, mood, facial expression, feeling that you output and can follow up on that situation.

If hes confused, not understanding the situation (which can mean he will follow with weird /mes of his own that will make you confused) or even using /do to ask you this or that (like, what do you do, how you react, all of that) -- means you're doing something wrong.

 

Thats my 2 cents about it.

 

Definitely. I personally split /me and /ame into thinks that make a noise (/me) and things that can only be seen (/ame)

[Sprinter]

it's not that deep

[ImperiumXVII]

15 hours ago, Sprinter said:

it's not that deep

 

roleplay is my life without it i am miserable please let me enjoy my days on this earth by doing /me correctly

[Duckling]

59 minutes ago, ImperiumXVII said:

 

roleplay is my life without it i am miserable please let me enjoy my days on this earth by doing /me correctly

 

/me didn't ask.