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I believe this must be discussed with the illegal roleplayers, those people whose gameplay will be affected if this goes through. And unfortunately the majority of the comments come from legal RPers. Legal RPers are often victimized by gang/mafia roleplayers. Being robbed or being the victim of a blind bullet in a bar shootout has become more or less commonplace. I also agree that all of our stories are intertwined, but we are the final storytellers for our characters. And at this point in time, I would argue that if I am the victim of a blind bullet in a bar shooting and the shooter is arrested [with the current system], it has the same consequence for both of us (it may be more drastic for him). I will RP a gun wound or type /respawnme and minutes later act like nothing has happened. He, on the other hand, has to stand there "AFK" and check in every 15 minutes or so to avoid being kicked. I totally agree with you that a prison sentence should not be an OOC punishment/timeout. However, I also agree with the statement that "it's just a game", "I only have 2 hours per night to play, I don't want to waste time in prison". That being said, with this proposal, even thought it may seem like you are offering a solution to this problem, [Bring more RP to DOJ perhaps], in fact you potentially increase the time of the very "OOC Penalty" you try to prevent. I just think we shouldn't discourage people from doing illegal RP(Or any type of RP tbh, Be who you want to be, that's the idea of roleplay). Consequences should be much harsher, I agree - but it also shouldn't encourage people to die to police just to avoid arrest. I think these two topics are directly proportional and it'll only lead to more shootings instead of reducing them. Overall, I think there are legitimate concerns and good points. The idea itself is brilliant, especially the parole system as it opens up doors for probation as well. It's just that, I'm not so sure that the proposed solutions address the problem at hand.

So, here we are again... The topic of Consequences has been approached from nearly every angle. It's time we discuss it from the perspective of realistic solutions. I ask that participants in this thread remain civil, because the staff has locked many such threads after only one vitriolic reply. I'd like to begin with a series of assumptions I am making about the state of how Criminal Justice works with Los Santos Roleplay. LSRP used to have a system of "days in prison" for offenses, circa 2011 and earlier. We changed to a system of "minutes in prison" around 2011 or 2012 because many players were spending their time primarily offline. This coincided with the creation of the DOC faction around 2011 or 2012, since Corrections was now a viable means of roleplay. Currently, we have a system whereby a person can go to prison on charges and sit there AFK or semi-AFK or use a laying animation in their jail cell bed until they're out. Seldom do people roleplay in Prison, and when they do they do so with no fear of consequences. Going to solitary is no true punishment, because it's just a place where they can AFK with no chance of anyone trying to roleplay with them. There is an incredibly unrealistic amount of felony crime happening in Los Santos. It has been quipped by many that such levels of crime would immediately lead to Martial Law, and it's hard to argue with that logic. People murder, rob, and deal drugs and all they really suffer is a type of OOC time-out in the State Prison while they edit the screenshots or video footage from their last gun fight or brawl. Rather than face the consequences of prison or jail, many players would simply prefer to turn and shoot at the police - even for minor offenses such as traffic stops. The server administration has permitted this to get out of hand, to the point where it has become status quo. The excuse people use constantly is "it's just a game", "I just want to enjoy the 2 hours of free time I have", and so on. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - What can be done? "Without Rules, we are nothing but animals." -Socrates "There are those men who say to repay evil with kindness. But I say, how then are we to repay kindness? Repay kindness with kindness, but repay evil with justice." -Kong Qiu Only with an understanding that there is a problem with the way criminal justice works on Los Santos Roleplay do we have even a shred of hope in fixing it. I have a four part proposal that I sincerely believe would fix a lot of the problems we are facing. First, change "minutes in prison" to "days in prison". This will incentivize roleplaying in prison because you cannot AFK for multiple days in a row... plus, that's boring. In my view, if you want to roleplay as a criminal that should also mean roleplaying in prison when you are inevitably caught. Of course, the alternative to roleplaying in prison is always be better at crimes and don't get caught. Second, add pleading to the jailing process. When a person is taken to jail by a law enforcement officer, the jailed player should be given an item in their inventory that states the charges. This is known in real life as the "rap sheet". It would allow the player to carry their sheet with them through the process, and to always know what they are charged with. Additionally, they should be shown the following two forms: (1) a rap sheet; (2) a pleading form. When a person pleads not guilty to at least one charge, they will receive indefinite imprisonment (time does not decrease for the charges they plead not guilty on). Additionally, the District Attorney's Office is notified via Discord that they must file the charges as a court case. If they don't file the charges within a few days, the person can notify the court and be released immediately. Third, add bail to the imprisonment process. If a person pleads not guilty, they will receive indefinite imprisonment until they win their court case. If they have pleaded not guilty to everything, and there are no charges that prevent bail, the person can bail out by paying the fee for the specific charge. In the example (left), the charge of First Degree Murder prevents bail so this person would not be able to bail out. However, most charges other than Rape, Murder, Terrorism, etc. will have a bail amount that is potentially very high. This serves as a "way out" for people who want to go back to their gang life immediately, or who sincerely believe they didn't commit the crime. If the person is found not guilty by the court, they will get this money back. Fourth, add life imprisonment after three convictions for felonies. If a person is a career criminal, they should face life imprisonment. Unless they are convicted of certain "no parole" offenses, they should be able to earn parole at the discretion of the DCR faction. For this, I am not saying if a person is taken to prison once with three felonies -- I am saying three separate times going to prison with felony charges, and either pleading or being found guilty of those felonies. This can be a pivotal moment in the character development of any illegal roleplayer, because it can have major effects on their gang. If the leader or multiple members of a street gang become "three strikes lifers" that might severely weaken the gang and open them up to attack by a rival. Why does this need to be done? One common response to these sorts of "ultra-realism" suggestions is "it's just a game", "I only have 2 hours per night to play, I don't want to waste time in prison"... Roleplaying is not just about the stories we want to tell with our characters. Instead, it is sometimes about the stories others tell with our characters or how all of our collective character stories fit into one larger "meta-story" of the whole LS-RP universe. If people are not willing to see their actions all the way through to the end, they shouldn't take those actions. If a person wants to roleplay a criminal, they must roleplay the whole life of crime and not just the parts they want to. Roleplaying as a criminal means facing that character facing the consequences of crime. Of course, people could still roleplay their characters having no fear and shooting at the cops but that is a separate issue to this one. This suggestion, instead, seeks to solve the problem of unrealistic amounts of crime. The Boyz n the Hood style of roleplay ought to have steep in-character consequences.

Part one of your suggestion is being worked on already by devs, as is pleading. Certain charges need more time or the ability to do life in prison, not just 900 minutes. Right now someone can get caught red handed for 4 murders and be out within a few days.

known whore, works cheap. Good review over all.

Keep going boys. I really enjoy it.

Let sleeping dogs lie.

Definitely support this. Current system allows for cops and robbers behavior.

You are massively understating this.

I like how a phenomenal suggestion is being low-key ghosted. I love you, Tungsten. GTA roleplayers don't want to storytell. They want to have some fun and action then log off. It's been like this from years. At this point we're beating a dead horse.

I will briefly comment on the economy since that's what I'm most interested in myself. The current economy is not fundamentally realistic. It's based on a circular flow of income model but it's not designed to keep money circulating in the economy; instead, it creates a lot of money and looks to remove money from circulation. A healthy economy requires the regulation of how much money is created and keeps most money circulating in the economy (while creating investment and non-investment resources to spend said money on so that players wouldn't have too much money with nothing to spend on). It simply gives the false idea of realism because it's more difficult to start out but there are many loopholes. Something that people who don't understand economics and game economy design is that a realistic economy = is (very) difficult to earn money. You can have a realistic economic model but ”adjust the ratios.” For example, think of income classes. Lower class - very poor Lower class Lower middle class Upper middle class Lower upper class Upper class Each income class ”denotes a level (in a game)” based on how much someone earns (based on what they do and what their contribution to the roleplay universe and in-game economy is) and each income class can afford certain investment and non-investment resources. If you were in the lower class - very poor, you would rely on social housing and the Department of Social Services checks. If you were upper class, you could afford the most expensive mansions and vehicles. Most all games that have an in-game economy revolve around a cost system. The cost system determines how easy or difficult it is to reach a certain level (of income), and what each level can afford. However, the trick is in regulating the money created (called the ”main indicators of the game,” meaning what is being rewarded with money. Usually, in roleplay, it's either (prolonged) activity e.g. paychecks and savings, or it's roleplay creation.) Once the money is created, the goal is to keep it circulating, not remove it from circulation. That's how you get a healthy economic system with limited inflation. Now, as I said, you can ”adjust the ratios” of how easy or difficult it is to reach a certain level. The upper middle class to upper class should be the most difficult to reach but the first three levels should require minimum effort. That would set all (new) players up at a comfortable level where they don't have to worry about money and can roleplay, but would need to put in extra work (through roleplay effort) to get higher. The easiest way to visualize this is by thinking of XP ratios for levels in an MMORPG. At the moment, you literally have players who can't afford the basics for their roleplay while there is a player who owns the Gentry Manor Hotel as a private residence (I don't know who), and there is major inflation not even a quarter into the server existence with millions being printed. My suggestion is this: Make the economy more transparent (good starters would be a Forbes-style top 10 richest list, a monthly inflation tracker based on how much money was/is on the server, and an income ladder. All 3 of these are public to everyone). It creates accountability for the economy team and players will be more inclined to provide feedback on the economy based on how content or uncontent they are with the results. Make it easier to start out for new players but make it more difficult to reach the upper levels of income classes. Involve non-staff in the economy team, and make economic discussions public to the player base so everyone can voice their opinion, and see how decisions are made.

2 major issues that with a fix could boost player base. 1 . Fuck this “realisitic” economy, samp was inflated yes, but having savings accounts, having a bunch of money and cars/houses made people not ever think about “needing money” , almost everything was done for the RP, give us bigger paychecks or savings sccounts or whatever, tweak it constantly until its perfect, and stop making everyone care about how much money they have 24/7, then we can get some solid RP. 2. Leniency from staff, yes theirs way too many guns on the server, but that’s only a major issue rather than a minor issue because nobody gets punished for doing whatever they like with them guns, I played non stop since release until a few weeks back, and the amount of DM and poor reasons to kill, poor escalation I saw or dealt with was ridiculous, and none of it really got dealt with, I know a bunch of people who got warning after warning, ajail, banned, unbanned in 3 days, repeat repeat, I understand the leniency was because you wanted to create a player base and not be so harsh banning people from a brand new server instantly, but people literally play this server to DM because they know they can get away with it, knuckle down on all the bullshit, stop letting people off the hook, accept you will lose players by punishing these people properly and not unbanning them in 4 days, but understand the long term effects on having people here to roleplay and know that they cant just run around and DM

You can have great rp without a ton of features, I don't know why everybody is so fixated on that. You don't need any script support to interact with other players and create some roleplay. Of course all these little features would make life easier on the server, but in my opinion that's not something that would get players back on the server. Aswell as for the economy, like everything is cheap as shit, you get paychecks regularly while you roleplay, you can literally wait till you are level 2 and get your first car with a loan. In my opinion there definitly needs to be done something about the factions. I don't know how it got to the point where 8 out of 10 factions are purely on the server for DM, their whole thread is flodded with DM screens/videos, people are ooc beefing on it and you never see them anywhere just hanging around and absolutly nothing gets done about it. Even when we had over a 100 players, there was like three or four pages of just random factions. I think we need some more strict regualtions on who can open a faction, what factions can be roleplayed and definitly limit it to a small number on who is allowed to use the weapon scheme and the drug scheme, maybe even just allow it for mafias/crime organizations for the beginning. At the end it will be a long journy cause if you play on another server and got something good going on there with a lot of players, there is absolutly no reason for you to move over. Players just prefer different stuff on a server and you can't change anything about that.

And why should we believe you, considering you already let the community down with many broken promises followed by a script that missed many basic features you'd expect after 2 years of development? If you want people to actually believe you this time, you come with solid work that shows you're still willing to contribute, or hand the development over to someone that's way more passionate. "Our team is burnt out" is not a fucking excuse. You wanna save the ship? Start by making sure people can actually roleplay (especially legal factions) and give us the scripts LSRPV was supposed to have from the start. Stop coming with the "Week 69" "Week Y" plans that are obviously going to get missed.

Since I contributed to some negativity on this forum about a week ago during my first impressions of playing this game I feel like I want to set the record straight by admitting that this shit is a lot more fun than I expected it to be. The initial shock of realising of how slow monetary progression is was definitely a turnoff in the beginning but honestly that feeling eventually faded by the roleplay I had with people on the server, mostly around businesses and with people in my faction but unfortunately this wasn't often since there's a disappointingly low number of businesses that offer a spot to hangout and meet other roleplayers during peak hours. With the coming window for business lease applications (which I hope is soon<3) I'm sure this matter will be adressed to some extent. Even so, I've come to the happy realization that this server is a lot better than it may look on paper and that most of the economic issues aren't that bad if you just play actively. To add, now that we get social security checks past lvl 3, we're able to focus on solely roleplaying, as just passively stacking levels will be more than enough to pay for rent + a feasible car. Not being forced to be a pro lawn-mower or sports fisherman feels really nice. . This server is honestly fortunate to have the base of loyal enthusiasts and roleplayers that it has, second to no other community in terms of quality and understanding for heavy text based roleplay. Playing here is a vibe that is hard to find somewhere else and luckily that's the biggest selling point for and old sa-mp veteran like me to stick on this server. For this reason I want to commend the admins for listening to our initial complaints and working quickly to adress issues within a reasonable timeframe. There's still a lot more to be done which the admins know about more than me but I have high hopes that they will make good on their responsibilites and perhaps even then some <3. Peace

Custom vehicle textures for companies.

no it wasnt an exaggeration. could it of been a one off? sure but it still definitely happened, and there are discord receipts of multiple people laughing at the ridiculous situation when it was going down. and why should a horrible police to criminal ratio be an IC thing lol we're pretty much under martial law at this point