Realistic Roleplay, IC Consequences & Improving RP Quality

[alessandroooo]

Game changing suggestions like this based on personal experiences with a lil %% of playerbase who doesn't roleplay fear and will affect the whole server aren't good for the community. This is what ruined another server and made it impossible to play without stress.
What you are suggesting is already covered by the common courtesy rule, that reads:
 

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Think about your character's actions and consider if it would be realistic for your character to do. If your character is surrounded by a group of people it would probably be a good idea to not say or do something to provoke them and put your character at risk. If your character is a teenager they likely would not be driving around Los Santos provoking police in to a chase.

 

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Punishment

Anything from a verbal warning to a ban depending on severity.

 

[Deceive]

I agree that IC actions need IC consequence but disagree with the way this suggestion is trying to achieve. If the crime rate is more in a certain area, increase PD/SD forces there. Increase jail times there etc. The action needs to happen ICly through IC means.

[Gaz]

1 hour ago, a_sliceoflife said:

I agree that IC actions need IC consequence but disagree with the way this suggestion is trying to achieve. If the crime rate is more in a certain area, increase PD/SD forces there. Increase jail times there etc. The action needs to happen ICly through IC means.

I agree. However, people have already complained about excessive police presence and excessive jail times. No one can be happy.

[jmp]

There's a better alternative which makes more sense but it requires a few things:

 

1.  Court system

• This requires active judges, lawyers and prosecutors.
• Section on the forum for court related purposes + a court house mapped ingame.

2. Script that actually supports investigative roleplay and allows detectives to actually try and solve crime cases.

• Handprints that are stored and saved when LEOs bring in arrests. If weapon serials can be stored then why not handprints?
• Shell casings when a gun is fired. ( for balance purposes - casings should not be allowed to be picked up by anyone other than LEOs ) 
• A command such as /examinecorpse which functions similarly as to how /examine does on GTA:W except this applies to information about a corpse. 
• ( information similar to /damages should show up here when the command is used to determine the cause of death. Other information as well regarding to time of death and if we wanted to get even more complex then somehow even manner of death? Was the victim shot in the back of the head? Side of the head? Front of the head? Shot from behind? Shot front? )
• More needs to be done but this is a start.

3. Both a JAIL and a PRISON 

• JAIL: Jails should be used for those who are charged with crime that results in less than a few days or those who are waiting for trial.
• PRISON: This should be used for players who are found guilty and sentenced to life or sentenced for a longer period greater than X amount of days.

So now lets assume that a detective has linked a homicide to a player.

1. That player can now either choose to plead not guilty and attempt to beat their charges.
2. Plead guilty and now their character faces life in prison. Now they can either NC or make an entirely new character.

Will it DECREASE crime? Maybe and maybe not. What it's guaranteed to achieve is actually making it a possibility to catch the person that did it. Everybody wins. The lawyers, the prosecutors, the judges, the LEOs, the detectives, the coroners. There's real incentive to all of it. It's full circle. 

[jmp]

Go look at GTA:W and how they implemented permanent corpses but left detectives out to dry with no way to actually solve the crime. Why? Because you have players abusing the shell casings script by spamming Y over all the casings which is basically the detectives only way of retrieving evidence with nothing else to go off of.

 

That's the biggest takeaway here. Then there's also have LEOs over there complaining that there's no real incentive to even RP securing scenes because 9 times out of 10 the crime goes unsolved anyway due to the lack of resources and script support for detectives.

 

This is the better approach because everything could be handled IC but it relies on the devs to give detectives the tools they need to solve the crime in the first place.

 

You're effectively introducing risk for players committing the crime. If they get caught then their character simply goes away for a long time. No imposed OOC CK is necessary.

[Tungsten]

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1.  Court system

• This requires active judges, lawyers and prosecutors.
• Section on the forum for court related purposes + a court house mapped ingame.

 

Work in Progress - stay tuned. It has always been a dream of mine to do trials for detective casefiles... so the detectives gather the evidence, and then the case would get argued in court to determine guilt or innocence and determine the sentences of the faction members who have been charged. This also gives that faction the chance in-game trials, assassinating the prosecutor/judge, maybe even tampering with the jury? The possibilities are endless...

 

 

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3. Both a JAIL and a PRISON 

• JAIL: Jails should be used for those who are charged with crime that results in less than a few days or those who are waiting for trial.
• PRISON: This should be used for players who are found guilty and sentenced to life or sentenced for a longer period greater than X amount of days.

This is a glorious idea, however I don't believe we have the faction staff to be running two separate facilities. A prison would probably make the most sense, since people don't actually submit a pleading at all.

 

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You're effectively introducing risk for players committing the crime. If they get caught then their character simply goes away for a long time. No imposed OOC CK is necessary.

 

There are certain conditions where I think a character should face the death penalty. If your character has been convicted on something like 5 murders, there is no way a California Jury would let you live... just being real. A person who murders 5 people is either criminally insane or a ruthless cold-blooded killer and realistically they'd be headed either to an state hospital or to death row. The Courts can handle this kind of sentencing, but we would need very strict guidelines on what does/doesn't constitute a death sentence. For example, it can't just be a red line of "5 murders you're sentenced to death" - there should be a set of rules that help determine what gets a "life sentence" and what is enough to get a "death sentence". Perhaps the Oz Model: if you commit a certain number of murders you get a life sentence, but if you also commit another murder in prison when you already have a life sentence you get the death penalty? I have no idea, but i'm game for this kind of challenge. As with the case file trials, the roleplay is endless here - in-game trials for death row cases, appeals for death row inmates, and of course the big event of lethal injection for San Andreas' worst criminals.

[Sprinter]

Server CKs don't work well. There's alot of factors that need to be considered. One of them is constant DM. I've died 6 times in one day and if I didn't have my OBS running to record it all, I'm sure 4 of those deaths would've slid through and would've been deducted from my 'life points' or whatever you want to call it. Right now the state of illegal faction RP is too hectic and chaotic to be able to regulate a system like that. There's alot of level 1's and 2's that are super trigger happy and look for any reason to shoot.

Safe to say, @SCANDALOUZ, it looks like most of your interactions aren't even in the southern part of LS so you're safe from death most of the time. Try standing out in Jamestown Flats at 4AM time with no admins/testers or on duty officers online. That'll change your opinion quick.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Sprinter

[30PiecesOfSilver]

1 hour ago, Sprinter said:

Server CKs don't work well. There's alot of factors that need to be considered. One of them is constant DM. I've died 6 times in one day and if I didn't have my OBS running to record it all, I'm sure 4 of those deaths would've slid through and would've been deducted from my 'life points' or whatever you want to call it. Right now the state of illegal faction RP is too hectic and chaotic to be able to regulate a system like that. There's alot of level 1's and 2's that are super trigger happy and look for any reason to shoot.

Safe to say, @SCANDALOUZ, it looks like most of your interactions aren't even in the southern part of LS so you're safe from death most of the time. Try standing out in Jamestown Flats at 4AM time with no admins/testers or on duty officers online. That'll change your opinion quick.

Yeah, 4 am shootouts without a cop on duty.  Pretty bad.

[Tungsten]

4 hours ago, Sprinter said:

Server CKs don't work well. There's alot of factors that need to be considered. One of them is constant DM. I've died 6 times in one day and if I didn't have my OBS running to record it all, I'm sure 4 of those deaths would've slid through and would've been deducted from my 'life points' or whatever you want to call it. Right now the state of illegal faction RP is too hectic and chaotic to be able to regulate a system like that. There's alot of level 1's and 2's that are super trigger happy and look for any reason to shoot.

Safe to say, @SCANDALOUZ, it looks like most of your interactions aren't even in the southern part of LS so you're safe from death most of the time. Try standing out in Jamestown Flats at 4AM time with no admins/testers or on duty officers online. That'll change your opinion quick.

 

This is fallacious reasoning. The proper solution would be to find more admins/testers/cops from that particular timezone, not to discount any kind of suggestion to improve the quality of roleplay by introducing enhanced consequences. If DM or "trigger happiness" is happening, the answer is to fix that problem and not affirm that it therefore must exist.

[30PiecesOfSilver]

@SCANDALOUZ

 

I agree with a lot of your points. But something is flagrant right now on the server, the issues with street gangs. No specific ones in particular. But if you take a look at the amount of killings that happens and the INSANE amount of forum reports on the daily.... Clearly something needs to be done, because these players don't seem to care about dying. The PF license regulations are too loose for criminals. I'm not against using a  PF license gun to commit crimes and robberies but something HAS to be done.  It feels a lot like a cops and robbers down in Davis/Rancho/Strawberry.

 

The amount of toxicity OOC from these street gangs is a joke right now. So, I feel like something has to be put in place to maybe limit the shootouts a bit, and my solution would be with prison. First off, switch to a days system instead of 10 hours for a murder. You get caught killing or with a felony, well I'm sorry but your guy is in prison for the next 7 days. And it goes down offline. That would promote the future DOC and maybe slow down the rampages. And bring a 3 strike system. 3 bad felonies like murder and violent crimes and your character is now in perma prison forever. Enough is enough, it's not role-play but dm out there.

[Sprinter]

11 hours ago, Tungsten said:

 

This is fallacious reasoning. The proper solution would be to find more admins/testers/cops from that particular timezone, not to discount any kind of suggestion to improve the quality of roleplay by introducing enhanced consequences. If DM or "trigger happiness" is happening, the answer is to fix that problem and not affirm that it therefore must exist.

You have no clue.

[Zagros]

On 7/28/2023 at 3:35 PM, SCANDALOUZ said:

The Problem:
There's very little consequences to being an absolute moron and subsequently providing sub-par role play / just engaging in "poor portrayal". People do all kinds of stupid shit and often get away with nothing more than a PK. They don't lose money on a PK, they don't lose all of their items, and they obviously don't lose their characters. They just get PKed, respawn and are right back to doing dumb shit and being unrealistic characters all over again. Yeah, I know, they lose guns and drugs. You lose a pistol costing less than $1,000 which you can make by less than a day of AFK-ing in-game. Big deal. There are no consequences.

 

I've been roleplaying on the server for about two weeks now, nearly every day. Honestly, I'm quite shocked by the quality of the roleplay I'm experiencing from most of the players. This is not the LS:RP I remember, and I suspect that many of these players don't really care about the server.

 

One instance that surprised me involved a shootout between us (PD) and other players, which resulted in the shooters entering the "injured" mode, or whatever it may be called. In order to avoid being incarcerated, the injured shooters would just use /me commands like "reaches for gun" or "aims gun at officers", prompting some of the officers at the scene to fatally shoot the suspects. In my opinion, this is a problem, as it allows them to avoid prison time, which is ridiculous. Then they simply respawn, acquire a new gun, and repeat the same actions with no real consequences other than losing some money and a weapon. Serious consequences should follow such criminal activities. I understand that if you're dead, you're dead. However, I have yet to see a single suspect who was injured in a shootout with the PD end up in prison.

 

Let's not even mention the driving... It's entirely out of control. There needs to be stricter penalties for poor driving. A simple ticket or warning isn't sufficient. If their driving is completely reckless or they've accumulated too many warnings, we (PD) should be authorized to seize their vehicle, meaning they will never be able to retrieve it. This is a proposal I intend to make. We need harsher penalties to demonstrate to players that this sort of in-character behavior will have consequences.

Unfortunately, the amount of out-of-character chat, poor roleplay quality, and trolling is exceedingly high on the server currently. This is not the LS:RP I'm familiar with. I hope that immediate action will be taken to address this issue. It's reaching a point where roleplaying isn't even enjoyable anymore.

 

On 7/30/2023 at 3:59 PM, 30PiecesOfSilver said:

I'm not against using a  PF license gun to commit crimes and robberies but something HAS to be done.  It feels a lot like a cops and robbers down in Davis/Rancho/Strawberry.

 

The amount of toxicity OOC from these street gangs is a joke right now. So, I feel like something has to be put in place to maybe limit the shootouts a bit, and my solution would be with prison. First off, switch to a days system instead of 10 hours for a murder. You get caught killing or with a felony, well I'm sorry but your guy is in prison for the next 7 days. And it goes down offline. That would promote the future DOC and maybe slow down the rampages. And bring a 3 strike system. 3 bad felonies like murder and violent crimes and your character is now in perma prison forever. Enough is enough, it's not role-play but dm out there.

I couldn't agree more. That's exactly what I've experienced.

 

Stricter in-character sanctions are needed. For instance, if a player drives recklessly or has accumulates a significant number of warnings or tickets, their vehicle should be confiscated.
Prison sentences should increase if a player commits numerous felonies within a short period of time.
Furthermore, a larger sum of money should be lost whenever a player dies.

 

Would be nice if we could have some input from the management about the current situation. We all want the best in the end.

@Mmartin @Ben @Kane

 

EDIT: I’d like to tag @Fiendfyre for her opinion about the confiscation

Edited August 2, 2023 by Zagros

[Tungsten]

46 minutes ago, Zagros said:

 

I've been roleplaying on the server for about two weeks now, nearly every day. Honestly, I'm quite shocked by the quality of the roleplay I'm experiencing from most of the players. This is not the LS:RP I remember, and I suspect that many of these players don't really care about the server.

 

[...]

 

Let's not even mention the driving... It's entirely out of control. There needs to be stricter penalties for poor driving. A simple ticket or warning isn't sufficient. If their driving is completely reckless or they've accumulated too many warnings, we (PD) should be authorized to seize their vehicle, meaning they will never be able to retrieve it. This is a proposal I intend to make. We need harsher penalties to demonstrate to players that this sort of in-character behavior will have consequences.

Unfortunately, the amount of out-of-character chat, poor roleplay quality, and trolling is exceedingly high on the server currently. This is not the LS:RP I'm familiar with. I hope that immediate action will be taken to address this issue. It's reaching a point where roleplaying isn't even enjoyable anymore.

 

On the issue of driving, this can be handled from an IC perspective by lobbying the City Council (once it's formed?) to create stricter laws. If the City Council enables the courts to do something we (judges) can issue harsher penalties like permanent license suspension, vehicle seizure, etc.

 

What I will recommend is this: If you want to get authorization to seize a vehicle, you need only apply for a warrant and articulate Probable Cause that the vehicle is being used for the commission of a felony (Evasion is a felony). If a vehicle is constantly being used for felony purposes, there is a strong case as to why it should be seized as evidence and prosecuted by the District Attorney. Instrumentalities of crime are seldom released once they are taken as evidence of a crime, especially following a conviction. Do with this advice what you will.

[JesterJr]

On the driving part, I am 100% vouching to you that no one stops for the traffic stop. Or if they do they are either gonna shoot at you or give you false names to stall the RP till someone comes to their rescue.

 

The past 2 days, I've conducted 2 traffic stops (different days) which ended up in me being shot at.

We should be patrolling in Tanks or four-deep to conduct a traffic stop without ending up dead.

 

On the DM side of things, I think a NVFL rule should be applied in the server. No one, and I include every player regardless of their IC profession or status, should value their life unless there are outside factors which are Roleplayed accordingly.

 

If I roleplay my character under the influence of a drug (such as Cocaine, Meth, MDMA) which cause the brain to function in a more reckless and aggressive way, yes I can go a bit over the edge during a situation and maybe attack a cop/fellow player for a pettier reason but it should be roleplayed accordingly and give the other side the chance to be on alert that your character is under the influence. That's part of the Roleplay.

 

Personally I'd be more lenient if a player roleplayed a drug abuse properly during any scenario that might excuse their IC actions. But death is a final resort, always. No one should just die to avoid an arrest or a situation from the opposite party.

 

I've seen criminals trying to survive a headshot because the person who shot them wasn't a cop but a rival gang. And we all know the reason behind that.

Edited August 2, 2023 by JesterJr

[Sparkles]

3 hours ago, Tungsten said:

 

On the issue of driving, this can be handled from an IC perspective by lobbying the City Council (once it's formed?) to create stricter laws. If the City Council enables the courts to do something we (judges) can issue harsher penalties like permanent license suspension, vehicle seizure, etc.

 

What I will recommend is this: If you want to get authorization to seize a vehicle, you need only apply for a warrant and articulate Probable Cause that the vehicle is being used for the commission of a felony (Evasion is a felony). If a vehicle is constantly being used for felony purposes, there is a strong case as to why it should be seized as evidence and prosecuted by the District Attorney. Instrumentalities of crime are seldom released once they are taken as evidence of a crime, especially following a conviction. Do with this advice what you will.

You can already impound a vehicle that's used in a crime. Judges can double the time if it's repeat offenses. 

 

As far as permanent seizure, that's something leads would have to approve. But we did pass an act for that on SAMP.