Sal

I'm pretty sure Mmartin has said this will be considered for after launch, which is good news. Can't remember when or where that was (possibly a stream) but the consensus is clearly in favour of allowing ped skins so surely it'll be on the to do list 🙂

I just did a nightmare mode game, my friend died in about 2 minutes and I barely escaped. We didn't even find the ghost room. Actual nightmare.

Lookin' good boiz also really resfreshing to see that you're keeping things open to those who are interested, but not necessarily fully-versed in the law (as we've seen countless times before, this just ends up being pretty toxic). I like the direction things appear to be going in, so good luck!

Couldn't agree more - there are so many more options now that weren't even fathomable on SAMP. Plennnnty more to consider! Glad that you like the idea of an art gallery. I'm not sure how feasible it is to have actual, physical art objects in the game without it being labour intensive to maintain. However, a halfway house solution could be that there's a generic blank object that looks like a painting, then when you get close and press a button, a popup appears with the actual painting itself (basically linked to somewhere on the internet, an image file of course). Not quite the same as having art that can be bought etc, but at least it can be displayed. With media, I agree that XM stations are a must and that we need to support players who are going to run their own stations as well. Sadly these have never been money makers, but again, I figure that this is potentially where Gov can step in and make up some of the money. Agreed as well that it'd be great for having some kind of in-game "charts" for players involved in music production RP. Tourism is indeed interesting. I'd see it more as something that we do by default, but its ulterior OOC motive should be to promote the server not just the city itself. Naturally we'd focus on the legal aspects of the server, but tbf I'm also down for creating some OOC trailers that reference both legal and illegal RP. That's not entirely related to this discussion, but is still something that I'd like to do. News stations is an interesting one. La Mama brought up a great model idea whereby having actual news companies isn't essential to the news scene. I quite like it but also respect anyone who wants to set up their own outfit. Just that it often takes a lot of management and is generally thankless. Agreed also that new revisions and ideas are needed on in-game news scripts and television. Ideally we want something as realistic as possible, but at the same time accessible so that people can actually see it. Perhaps an option to tune in to live streams using the phone? Then we're getting into Twitch territory but I'm kinda here for that too.

Brilliant this is really good food for thought, thanks for sharing and for the links and references to how it works in real life too. I'll have more of a think about this and see about pulling something together. I imagine something like this could work well with the Twatter social media feature too. I'm also personally more of a fan of shorter bite-sized news anyway. Attention spans in the real world are lower than ever before, we've got a scrolling culture now, so it makes sense for this to translate IC anyway. Great contribution though thanks again and feel free to add any more ideas that spring to mind 👍

That's an interesting idea for media actually - being paid per article as a "contributor" sort of thing. Keeping in-house staff for a single news faction was always difficult, as we saw with the ongoing rise and fall of SAN. Perhaps that model would actually work better. I'd also be interested to see whether any developers have plans or ideas in mind for how news works in the script itself. The obvious answer is a phone app, which I think sounds doable. But when we get into the realms of TV and radio broadcasts, I'm not so sure. Most folks fell out with the idea of a global IC chat a while back, but maybe an opt-in alternative combined with TV script could work. On the topic of support for this sort of RP, paying for the articles or contributions is a clear win. However arguably that'd be paid by a business (or selection of businesses).. but maybe in the beginning, we just cover it ourselves as a sort of press wire to encourage news articles getting going in the first place. If a news app isn't going to be there for launch, this could be a forum section. Good thinking though I like this train of thought.

Ur cows are cute. Also we stan the staff pic.

Yeah there's still plenty of us around after all, even if there's gonna be a great illegal scene alongside it. Thanks! 🎵 I love you, San Andreas 🎵 Thanks for your feedback and yeah, couldn't agree more. It's great to hear you're into music and love the idea of forming a band! Hopefully you find some likeminded people to join you. I'll keep an ear to the ground and will connect you if I come across anyone. Also fully one hundred percent agree about the music industry, hiring of bands for venues and live music, big fan of that. What's your opinion on how it would work in practise - do you think we'd only realistically recognise people who have actually produced their own music? As in, basically disallowing claiming famous songs or other people's works as your own? I think this is pretty essential imo. Yep - hoping to get lots of videos and music and all sorts out of this. And the great thing is, it's something that so many people can get involved in. Just required creativity and talent, then we (the Gov) would be there ICly to help out with whatever's needed, and OOCly we can think about how the wider picture actually works. We can ask questions like "Should we have an area of the forums dedicated to the charts and in-game music?" and "Should we have an art gallery and if so where, how would it work, how do artists get paid?" etc. The main thing is gathering people who are interested in this RP together. Oh another thing to bring up is Sport, which is likely gonna fall under our remit as well. I've never really seen sports done particularly well on any other server, has anyone else? Open to ideas on that one.

Ahhh ok right I think I understand this side a bit more now - so are you suggesting that "Anything which is not covered in the game, such as sports, can be substituted with what's going on in its real life equivalent"?

Yeah exactly, agree wholeheartedly on this point. The server is naturally going to progress in its own direction and folks shouldn't be afraid of doing that for fear of being told "this isn't happening in LA" and to some extent, "this wouldn't likely happen in LA". As largehazard said, it's good to set things up properly in the beginning, then see where the RP naturally takes us.

Thanksss Appreciate it, if you want any more help with getting things off the ground then hmu! Teehee smirk. Thanks and indeed we do! Makes it come to life a bit more and links in with a lot of civilian RP, especially politics. I've also added a link to a discussion on how the Government can support media and journalism (along with other civilian RP) below, so anyone wanting to get involved with this stuff is welcome to contribute to the debate:

Hold on what you’re kidding!? Shiiit so hold on any large scale events are gonna be a nightmare? Sorry derailing the original topic here, bottom line is that it sounds this just isn’t feasible.

Might be a nice compromise yeah. Didn’t realise stability was such an issue on this client tbf. Stability always gotta come above immersion imo. Maybe this becomes more of a “nice to have” in that case.

Hmm I see where you're coming from now with the coastline thing. So it's more a case of "in theory, we are connected to the mainland, and the specifics of that are not fully important". In which case I think this could work. The more clear it is in the game, the easier or quicker it would be for players to understand that it is the case. In many ways, if the actual game could imitate the lore map then that's far more ideal. But yeah we're limited here and I do get that. With the point on the naming logic being immersion breaking, it wouldn't break my immersion but I suppose that's down to personal preference / how hardcore we're going. Don't think I've got any more major points to raise here other than what I've already mentioned.

Hmm I like the idea of less despawning tbf. I'm not sure how the limitations of the client are this time around. Also not sure how it'd work in terms of vehicle theft? Not against the idea in theory though - making the city feel more alive would be great even if it is just with parked cars.

We stan. Good luck to those who apply!

Cool. I'm still not massively offended by anyone who mentions Vice City or Liberty City, but as with a lot of this stuff... I guess it'll be down to preference on whether anyone tries to enforce it if it's brought up in conversation. Like I personally wouldn't be like "/b Mate, VC doesn't exist call it Miami". Maybe that'll never happen anyway idk, if we're saying that many players don't use these location names much any more anyway. Yeah connection to the mainland is an interesting one, I agree that there should be a connection in some way, it's just how it works in practise. Like I'm mainly thinking about the (potentially very rare) times that someone might drive a boat out around to a location which, according to the lore map, should actually be a landmass. If this happens, should they be informed that they can't go there? Or should an actual physical invisible wall be placed? I'm thinking mainly here from the perspective of new players rather than folks who have read up on the continuity that's been agreed. Or do you go down the other direction, which the other server took, of roleplaying a bridge and then accepting the coastline as a sort of large river running around the northern side? I wouldn't be offended by this but from what I've heard, it's not something that anyone else is keen on. Or are we suggesting that everyone needs to understand these principles clearly before being allowed onto the server, so that nobody has an excuse for piloting a boat to areas which are actually land? Or am I overthinking things. Maybe.

This game is hilarious and great to play with others. The team is up to a max of four and you basically go into a haunted house to try to figure out what kind of ghost you're dealing with. A few jumpy scares and creepy moments. Hmu also if you're into it and we can team up some time. (There's also Ghost Exile which seems like a total rip from Phas, but it's newer and not as polished)

Yeah, in fairness I hope some thought has gone into 'placemaking' - creating proper hubs for certain types of RP and certain types of characters. Inevitably we'll end up with some kind of Idlewood pizza stack situation (probably that little mall near Mirror Park) but even so, it'd be nice to have properly themed areas. Back to the nightlife point though, I hope for diversity as we've discussed, and I hope that some thought has gone into making them profitable for owners. Otherwise we'll end up in a situation where nightclubs and bars are actually a drain on resources - this obvs shouldn't be the case.

Dunno where the disconnect happened but yeah, before reading the previous thread I'd have assumed that everyone was actually still fine with having SA as the 51st State. But after reading the arguments on there, and being convinced of them, it's clear that things are different and people do want something different. I think this clear majority should be respected. I'm only approaching this from the perspective of prioritising new player integration; in other words, not making it too difficult for newbies to understand the city they're RPing in, and also from the perspective of policing how the "borders" are interacted with in the game. So long as people aren't gonna be told off for using boats where there's water "because that is actually land" then that's fine. But perhaps the solution, to make that clear, is to update the map slightly to give us a coastline as I mentioned previously. It's a compromise sure, but the best solution as far as I can see. But as ever, I can be convinced otherwise.

Guideline is cool then, so long as there's a degree of flexibility then I have no major issue here. Also with regard to Tseard's point on the map - I get this too. I know there's the 'suspension of disbelief' argument, but (without mentioning any specific names but I know you don't need me to) a certain other server has amalgamated the "we're an island" and the "we're replacing California" map. It looks ugly, but it is workable. I won't post it here because it'd look like we're stealing it, but I'd go down that direction rather than implying we're directly connected to the mainland via actual land. Then new players don't need to be told "you can't take your boat there because that's actually a landmass", but we can still stick with the California replacement. Unpopular opinion probs but hey, I'm full of 'em.

Yeah I'm on board with that, in that case! Also good chat trés good. I have another avenue of discussion for a bit later on but might as well give other people a chance to comment too.

Hmm nah this is the one part that's a hard no for me, I've seen many players roleplay their backstories as being from these locations, and taking away that seems slightly oppressive to me. Completely disallowing singleplayer lore makes everything slightly less accessible to those who don't quite have the same understanding of California as others do - which would then require people to have to read up on things, which just seems over the top to me personally. Especially if I were a new player, I'd want to feel that I at least know something about the city I'm about to RP in, without having to trail through Wiki articles on it. Personal opinion here though of course, as is the rest. Sorry if I've misunderstood - I've just seen your other comment Chuckles - so you'd be okay with using the names of these locations provided they don't use the GTA lore associated with it? I'm not entirely sure of the GTA lore associated with these other cities on this generation tbf so perhaps that's fine then. I'm mainly trying to get across that some people are gonna use singleplayer names for things, and that this should be fine imo.

Great job with this folks, clear to see a hell of a lot of effort and thought has gone into it. My personal perspective is that the overall stance should be: San Andreas does indeed replace California, because it would otherwise be far too similar to its real-life counterpart to make sense, but we need to be mindful of the fact that we don't want people to have to research California itself just to understand how to RP on the server. What I mean by this is, giving a bit more leeway to some of the lore set down by the game itself. I know not everyone would agree with this approach and that's fine, but in my opinion it's a balancing act about making it realistic, without taking away our ability to also make this a unique city. We can't copy like-for-like, but we should take heavy inspiration from LA and California where appropriate to do so. With this in mind, these are the only areas that I would reconsider: - I believe others have already explained some pretty good reasons for this, but again, people are more likely to know the game lore than the real life lore, and a lot of folks have based their characters from here. I say allow flexibility, and don't outright ban the use of their real-world counterparts either. It wouldn't really affect anything I don't think. Linked to my overall opinion on the direction of this, particularly in the case of Cluckin Bell and other actual bricks and mortar businesses, I just think we allow flexibility here. If someone wants to say they visited Cluckin' Bell then so be it - it's in the game after all so educating everyone that "this doesn't actually exist because it doesn't exist in the real world" is a bit much imho. Besides some of the businesses have great names. Also linked to everything I've said... basically, I stand more along the lines of "if it exists in SP then it could exist in LSRP, especially if it's a business that someone's decided to name after the actual on-site location". Same goes for sports teams - if there's an in game equivalent, i'd go for that over its real life equivalent. Just my two penneth and appreciate this isn't quite the same direction you guys went in with your original thinking. Not hills i'd die on either, can be convinced otherwise, just thought I'd try to find a middleground a bit more between total California replacement and San Andreas. Will say again though, great work putting in the time and effort on making this this happen and for facilitating mature debate on this topic. Edit: also just to clarify, totally on board with California not existing, and it's clear to see the vast majority of the community supported this as per the poll on this page:

Hrmmm I'm pretty sure that we're going to have Boiling Broke, the facility in Grand Senora, and that it'll be managed by the SD. Dunno what the plans are in terms of interiors and mapping etc, maybe @jack can shed some light on things?