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Economy


Mikee
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Well, this is a discussion that may have no end hahah.
So.. the topic is "Economy". What about economy? Which one do you think is the best economy? An inflated economy which allows you to focus on the Roleplay ( the bad thing is that it will surely allow a lot of people to buy supercars, exotic cars etc... ) or a "realistic" economy where you have to "grind" in order to have a bit of money ( which might be counterintuitive initially for factions like ocg )? Let me know what do you think about it and try to motivate your answer.

What do I mean with inflated economy?
Examples:
- Initial Money: 20000$
- Paycheck: 3000$
- Phone: 300$
etc...

What do I mean with "realistic" economy?
Examples:
- Initial Money: 5000$
- Paycheck: 500$
- Phone: 300$
etc...

Edited by Mikee
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100% a realistic economy if the server wants to maintain its realism - people will have no problem doing the grind. If the economy is really well managed, the corruption opportunities that will arise will be good. OCG offers a Sheriff whose on 1k a pay check 50k to release someone / take a certain route? That'll be a decision! 

 

It'll promote factions earning what they are, and this will make them more serious and dedicated than if everything is just handed to them on a platter. 

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The goal is to go for a realistic economy.

 

The issue with this is that a realistic economy is not as simple as you think it is, because the real economy is reliant on debt - Buying a house, car, business etc, generally comes from loans in real life.

 

To combat this, we need to work out some sort of formula which will show that on average, a job will make you X amount of money in Y amount of time, compared to real life, with either X being inflated, or Y being a shorter time frame than what you'd make in real life in that time.

Edited by ROZE
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So what I've learned from the my best experiences in roleplaying is that grinding is generally bad and fruitless. It's neither realistic nor fun to grind script jobs so you can buy the stuff you want. Personally for me, the best experience I had, was that acquiring businesses in the first place should be VERY easy. That said, you have to consider that I'm talking about rather normal and small businesses, an electronics shop, a flower shop, a cafe, a bar, etc. These businesses are the heart of roleplay and can be given out to people so that they can start roleplaying at once. Of course a management group of sort should be there to overlook the process, both ICly and OOCly and keep the business owners in check. As for bigger businesses like clubs, casinos, dealerships, and generally the ones that require a large investment, the same management group should give them out by applying more filters and more reasoning for the person who applies for such business. Also another script that I've seen that's worked very well, is that server pays the people who work at most of the businesses by their active playing time inside that business. You RP an hour in a 24/7 when you are hired there and you get X money from the server. This makes roleplaying the best way to acquire money and bypasses many of the grinding ways that have been seen in almost all GTA roleplay servers.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that money can be an OOC asset. My character could have 100,000$ in his bank account but I should be able to ignore that and roleplay a homeless person. So I myself am against any sort of limitation that prevents players from roleplaying what they want. 

 

I have a lot to say but I will pour it out gradually since I have no idea where the management here is headed with the script. 

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Definitely a realistic economy. Its always been hard to gauge prices since in game guns cost a lot more than a brand new car or house, but there are also daily consumables and perishables like snacks and drinks.

 

The economy is something that is mostly uncontrollable and depends solely on how players trade with each other but there are things that the admins can do to guide it in the direction they want to, such as restricting things that may be devalued like expensive cars, less common weapons, big houses and certain furniture or home design items.

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50 minutes ago, mDino said:

So what I've learned from the my best experiences in roleplaying is that grinding is generally bad and fruitless. It's neither realistic nor fun to grind script jobs so you can buy the stuff you want. Personally for me, the best experience I had, was that acquiring businesses in the first place should be VERY easy. That said, you have to consider that I'm talking about rather normal and small businesses, an electronics shop, a flower shop, a cafe, a bar, etc. These businesses are the heart of roleplay and can be given out to people so that they can start roleplaying at once. Of course a management group of sort should be there to overlook the process, both ICly and OOCly and keep the business owners in check. As for bigger businesses like clubs, casinos, dealerships, and generally the ones that require a large investment, the same management group should give them out by applying more filters and more reasoning for the person who applies for such business. Also another script that I've seen that's worked very well, is that server pays the people who work at most of the businesses by their active playing time inside that business. You RP an hour in a 24/7 when you are hired there and you get X money from the server. This makes roleplaying the best way to acquire money and bypasses many of the grinding ways that have been seen in almost all GTA roleplay servers.

 

Another thing to keep in mind is that money can be an OOC asset. My character could have 100,000$ in his bank account but I should be able to ignore that and roleplay a homeless person. So I myself am against any sort of limitation that prevents players from roleplaying what they want. 

 

I have a lot to say but I will pour it out gradually since I have no idea where the management here is headed with the script. 

 

That first paragraph of yours is really interesting and actually, it's not a bad idea. The constant script job grinding can be really demotivating and frustrating at times, and whilst I do see why it's needed to some extent, we should have alternatives.

 

I would also love to see us get rid of the '$200 for a pack of cigs at the 24/7' thing. Not sure how easy it is to combat that but yeah, more realistic prices would be welcoming sight.

Edited by Eric
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I've always liked the idea of money being worth/valued more which is great to hear. Regarding businesses and openings though, I personally found it annoying to handle the "activity check" and I know why it was brought in back on SAMP LSRP. But I'm hoping it won't be here simply, I say that business owners should open when they like to, even if it's only 1 or 20 times a month. The player purchased that business, it should be up to them to open the business as they like and not be forced. Same thing for hotels etc.

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This topic has always been a heavily debated one. I'd personally like see a whole restructure and re-thinking of how the economy works in this game. Without going in to copious amounts of detail, I think the following are key in order to establish an economy that address both hyper inflation and realism;

 

1. Money needs to be a physical item in your inventory. It can be stored in cars, your properties etc. Anything that is on you, can be taken like any other item in game. 

2. Illegal role-players need to be forced into cleaning "dirty" money via a businesses. This will prevent people from making 100k from a drug deal and then going to buy a house without any legal repercussions. You'd have a financial crimes unit in PD to deal with this, as well as a few basic scripts to allow the IC police to track this sort of thing. 

3. The administration needs to take a really hard look at how money is brought into the server, in which avenues it travels from player to player and then how they plan for money to "exit" the server. Some examples of money being brought in; welfare, script jobs, etc. Some examples of money moving around; players paying employee's, illegal activities, legitimate business. Some examples of money leaving the server; taxes (sales tax, income tax, capital gains tax), police seizing assets / money because of illegal activity and destroying it. 

 

Anyone who knows anything about economics or studied this in school knows that creating a realistic economy in this type of environment will require a large amount of effort / scripting. As well as a very well thought-out plan that will require constant oversight and correction. Is it possible? For sure it is, it just depends how seriously the management team deems a realistic economy to be and how much effort they want to put in. 

 

I personally think if a realistic economy was created, this would be a huge win for role-play in general, and would draw a massive number of players to this server. 

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Whilst I'm all for a realistic economy, there are some limitations (at least early on). Realistically anyone who moved to LS from abroad would have had to pass through rigorous immigration checks to make sure they could support themselves over a longer period of time, if they had a job or not and so on. Most working and lower class citizens already living in LS, would already have a home a job and be able to support themselves to a degree. Having a nominal starting amount would support early roleplay on the server, otherwise without stimulation, the economy will take a while to develop. 

You could also look towards things like government grants to help support new businesses (taken out of Gov budget determined my faction management) and kickstart the economy that way and at the same time, it gives people jobs, places to go and things to do. TLDR; The economy needs a helping hand to get started.

Edited by Stormbird
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I would choose the realistic economy. I am currently playing in a server which the economy is very inflated and everywhere I look I see supercars and sport cars/bikes. Some us RP realistically our assets and a lot of players don't. Actually I've never played on a server with a realistic economy but I imagine its also very hard to adapt to it. But I believe that it is better than an inflated one.

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Realistic US economy would be nice and this goes beyond just the value of money. 

 

  • Apartments, for example, should be something that you rent. Condos, which would be substantially more expensive, can be bought. This would make a lot more sense for many people to not be actual 'owners of apartments' but instead leaseholders.  
  • Leasing cars should be a thing too. You make monthly payments on the car then when it is done it goes back to the dealership and onwards to the next owner.
  • Mortgage system with interest for late payments. Lock it behind a certain amount of played hours if worried that it can be abused. 

 

 

Edited by catsmoon
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7 hours ago, catsmoon said:

Realistic US economy would be nice and this goes beyond just the value of money. 

 

  • Apartments, for example, should be something that you rent. Condos, which would be substantially more expensive, can be bought. This would make a lot more sense for many people to not be actual 'owners of apartments' but instead leaseholders.  
  • Leasing cars should be a thing too. You make monthly payments on the car then when it is done it goes back to the dealership and onwards to the next owner.
  • Mortgage system with interest for late payments. Lock it behind a certain amount of played hours if worried that it can be abused. 

 

 

 

Interesting, but leasing cars should be limited to certain vehicles and mostly low-end for dealerships during repairs or for insurance RP if necessary. Monthly payments would be sort of meh! But maybe. As long as it remains with low-end vehicles then it'd be okay. 

 

Apartments you should be able to buy simply just like on LSRP SAMP, but there should be dedicated motels for the whole "rental" system of places to live. - Most places on the GTA V map are apartments.

 

Mortgage system with interest is not really a script related thing in my opinion. It should be more so handled through RP loan companied businesses or loan-sharks with horrible consequences such as being beaten, killed or exploited/blackmailed for not making multiple payments. Name-changes not allowed during this period of loans of course, that way the loan sharking system/loaning business system wouldn't be heavily abused oocly by the clients. Make sure to have a well written contract for collateral! But ya, plenty of interesting RP can come from loan-sharking if you put your mind to it!

Edited by Natasha Valentine
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It is thing that need to be perfectly balanced. So you don't need to grind some job 12 hours for 100k, or to just stay AFK and earn a lot of money. Also, it depends on which way you decide to get money. I would like to see some realism in the economy system.

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Don't give too much passive money that comes out of nowhere. I understand that for those that aren't well-versed into roleplaying as much as others, or don't have any good friends that they can do business with it'll be harder to earn money but the incredibly unrealistic economy on SAMP existed because money was basically infinite.

 

With that said, it shouldn't be too hard either. You should have an X amount of money in the hands of the ''state'', to pay the unemployed (or scripted jobs) that is filled back up on a monthly basis (through money injections from the federal reserve or whatever). This could be 2 million, 5 million, 20 million or more whatever works with the amount of players we have. Either way, once it reaches zero all the unemployed can't receive any more money untill it's filled back up. Like this you're still gaining money from an ''infinite'' resource, but the economy will be more dependent on money and transactions made from player-to-player.

 

For the illegal side, there should be more ways to work the economy. For example the possibility to launder money, and if too much money is spend without proof of existence (Profit obtained from illegal activities and then spent without laundering) the authorities will be alerted. In real life this is the SEC I think (?, not sure if it's actually the SEC since I don't live in the USA). If there is not enough PB for an actual SEC faction, IC this could just be PD's investigation force (Detectives, whatever)

 

Also making ''fake'' money would be cool as long as you can't make 4 million in a weeks time, this should also obviously only be for the bigger (official) illegal factions. This fake money would undeniably need to be able to be caught someway or another, in real life this is done through a scanner you can often find at supermarkets, banks and restaurants. This could be implemented too.

 

You could add a way to make the fake money more convincing or not for the scanners, otherwise every shop can just spam the scanner and deny any fake money making it useless. Making the fake money more or less convincing could be done through a percentage. The more time and money spent making the fake money, the more convincing it is. For example, if you want a 92% (random high percentage) you only gain 0.1 of the money spent to make the fake money. So if you spend 10 dollars, you'll have 11 fake dollars once it's done with a 92% match with real money. 

 

But if you want to roll the dice and make it match for only 45% you gain 0.7 so 10 dollars are now 17. But why do we need to spend money to make fake money? Printers, workers, paper, whatever excuse you want to make. For me it's mostly to make it balanced would something like this actually be implemented.

Edited by rls
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Most definitely a realistic economy. I don't think there's even a need for a discussion, the economy on SA-MP just got ridiculous and unfair. Especially as back in the day it was so much easier to gain money via paychecks, especially being apart of GOV (LSPD/SASD/EMS). 

 

If anything this server is a blessing for an economy reset that LS-RP so desperately needed. Keep it simple and don't charge $500-$1000 for entry in a building and we should be alright.

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Let's also not forget that we are more or less responsible for the economy. We players was the ones who charged 1000-2000$ to enter a club, 20,000 for VIP and sold Desert eagle for 80-100k, which was not really realistic.

There should be some kind of rule to keep pricing of certain items within the limit to keep it realistic and avoid monopoly.

 

 

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