Consequences & The Feel of Playing 2 Different Gamemodes at Once

[.Bishop]

This is very easy to fix. The root of all problems is people don’t understand it’s nit nerdy to approach your character realistically. You joined LSRP, this is not gtaw or whatever.

 

You don’t need to be a legendary roleplayer. All you need is immersing yourself in that character. From that discord chat we had earlier some even blatantly said they rather have mid tier roleplay. But this is not a mid tier roleplay server. We’re not asking you to be a God and breathe roleplay. 
 

no no examples: 

- suicide to avoid whatever: you’re pulled over because someone said you’re dealing drugs. You also have a gun on you. You know that’s maybe 2 hours in prison. You start evading. Which is fine, gang gang evades cops when dealing drugs and also pack heat. But what you decide to do next sets you apart, or keeps you in the idlestacks / mallrat category. The cops will eventually stop you. Now, do you get out and run? That’s fine, run. Do you turn around and shoot at them? Bad. It’s not play2win for the cops if they arrest you. You made a series of bad calls which led to you being caught lacking with drugs and guns on you. 
 

- taking everything as a joke: I see people trying to steal cars from outside the sd / pd hq. I see people doing all sorts of unrealistic things in plain sight or on very busy streets. That’s bad. Someone mentioned vato locos rp’ers are people who miss out on their social life just to rp. That’s not the case. Logging in 1 hour a day and providing quality rp is a matter of skill and wanting to improve yourself. I personally got shot by Nueve Flats but it all felt realistic and there was no foolery involved. It was my character’s fault. 
 

- the idlestack gangs: maybe some of f you know, go to Tahitians and you’ll be offered guns in 5 seconds. The whole gang is so subpar that it touches on cringe. People shouting shop open yall shop open. They apparently have hundreds of weapons and they are not part of the weapon scheme. One individual especially seems to be the top dog. What’s even funnier, earlier on discord he told a tester to ban pf boys. His /me’s are ridiculous and he expresses things that border on pg or mg. He’s also the first person ever to react to a misclick. In whatever years of lsrp nobody ever reacted to a misclick punch from me. Not only that, he’s got numerous reports on him for baiting, dm’ing and provoking people. 30piecesofsilver probably can tell who I’m talking about. The fact that this individual managed to talk himself out of ajails so many times and continues to spread noobness while thinking he’s great is just weird. 
 

I can rant here for hours. I know people don’t react very good to people who speak out. They start calling us cringe and whatever. The fact is, you agreed to join a hardcore roleplay server. Don’t act surprised and almighty when people want you to adhere to hardcore standards. 

[21Kimo]

2 hours ago, ROZE said:

I really don't think forced CKs would even fix much, the kinds of people you're talking about don't exactly favour character development, if given a free CK they'd just link back up with their old buddies and do the same thing, if anything I think it would devalue a CK

 

There are other ways to handle this, we just need to figure it out

A Forced CK is nothing but an IC consequence for not fearing for your character's life. There has to be an another OOC punishment WITH THE FORCED CK to stop this suicidal behavior from ruining every scenario.

[21Kimo]

Heavy roleplay is all about focusing on displaying emotions, showing how your character learns from the situations he takes part in or witness but when the most basic rule for any game "Do not die" becomes simply normal IN A HEAVY ROLEPLAY ENVIORMENT for players because why not I'll just respawn without any consequence (Other than losing my shit which is fine I'll grind them back). How does this benefit your character's development or it's story? How does this help keep the server's standards? If the most simple thing can not be done which is portraying fear why should people roleplay being sad, happy or angry. If you decide it's fine to start shooting when you're outnumbered or you are at gunpoint and you gave no regards to your characters life, why does your character has to stay alive? What sort of actions have they shown that they really value their life? I see this as completely inappropriate both IC and OOC and your character should face the IC consequence and you should face the OOC consequence for failing to roleplay fear.



EDIT: 

Characters won't have any kind of depth if this kind of activity will remain allowed. Everyone will keep death as the last escape plan to any difficult situation they endure because again they'll just respawn as if they did nothing. This will lead to a big series of non-rp events.

Edited August 7, 2023 by 21Kimo

[SCANDALOUZ]

4 minutes ago, 21Kimo said:

Heavy roleplay is all about focusing on displaying emotions, showing how your character learns from the situations he takes part in or witness but when the most basic rule for any game "Do not die" becomes simply normal IN A HEAVY ROLEPLAY ENVIORMENT for players because why not I'll just respawn without any consequence (Other than losing my shit which is fine I'll grind them back). How does this benefit your character's development or it's story? How does this help keep the server's standards? If the most simple thing can not be done which is portraying fear why should people roleplay being sad, happy or angry. If you decide it's fine to start shooting when you're outnumbered or you are at gunpoint and you gave no regards to your characters life, why does your character has to stay alive? What sort of actions have they shown that they really value their life? I see this as completely inappropriate both IC and OOC and your character should face the IC consequence and you should face the OOC consequence for failing to roleplay fear.

 

Most based and honest comment yet.

[westfordd]

Something has to give here. I'll repost what I said in discord. The other night when I was doing an opening... It was totally ruined by a DMer who came in and called people every slur in the book. Some people took offense to this, rp fist fight ensues... Then they randomly scrolled a pistol, gunned down the entire establishment, someone managed to kill them, they disconnected. Shortly thereafter, admin comes and revives us but the scene was ruined completely and no consequences were doled out to the offender to my knowledge. Very unfortunate.

[Clown_Taxi]

Here's my opinion on this.

 

I feel like rather than focusing on the CK aspect of the issue itself, a much constructive solution lies within the PK system.

 

Without the courtesy of taking a CK for yourself, all of our characters are immortal to some point. So I would change PKs as a "brutally wounded" state rather than "this player is dead". In that scenario, using a /respawnme means that you've been taken out of there by medical personel with the company of police officers, not requiring actual EMS and PD characters to act out its RP (since it would not be feasible with the current amount of shootouts).

 

You were carrying any illegal materials like drugs or unlicensed gun? You respawn in prison with a sentence, based on what you were carrying. Talking about 4-8 IG hours here (Might also be a contribution to the Prison RP itself). Increase that if actual PDs were there in the moment of your death and they've witnessed additional crimes of yours, so they can apply a modifier to your character when you're lying on the ground. All of these gets in your criminal record too.

 

Not carrying any illegals or no witness for your crime? Respawn in hospital.

 

Obvious counter line to this is the void of memory and Revenge Kill rule. I know that this might be too much of a playing with the core rules but I would simply remove the memory erase factor out of the rules. We already have lots of faction engagement rules with the whole reasoning behind being OOC order. So, RK does not need an erase of memory to be enforced.

 

Is it kinda unreasonable for a character to know that they've been brutally wounded by someone but can't act on it? Yes, in that case, my actual go-to would be allowing RK, but actually giving a CK-claim chance to your initial killer if you die during your Revenge Kill attempt, since this is a high risk attempt. This would also force the killed individual into planning their Revenge Kill more comprehensively. A better solution might also come out for this, so feel free to drop your opinion on this.

 

What if I'm a drug dealer or a regular unlicensed gun carries that got caught in crossfire? Might be a controversial though but I also see this as a win-win since this would also work against the whole server walking around with their unlicensed Locke 71s and actually strapping themselves when it's needed. If you actually think that you were a victim in a DM situation, there's always an appeal solution. This would also force drug dealers to do the trade in much safer venues like back alleys or actual interiors.

 

Back in the old SAMP days, I got a lot of jail time for constantly doing carjacks and joyrides like a goofball. You know when I tried to put more confidentiality or risk management into my act? Once the jail time surpassed the 2-hour mark.

 

TL;DR, the whole CK discussion brings a ton of OOC problems with it like name change prices to player retention issues. I would say making a critical change in the PK and /respawnme functionalities by linking it with the IC prison system could do wonders. Only the RK rule itself would have to be rethought at that point.

[HIVE.MIND]

I remember some "you are bunnyhopping, stop or get kicked" message from the server. Was introduced in 2013/2014? :'D something like this?

[Gaz]

47 minutes ago, Clown_Taxi said:

snip

I actually really like this imo.

[Dai]

+ Support,  I won't go in to chapter and verse most of this has been covered but i'll add my supporting comments which is thus.   If you want quantity, quality leaves, if you want quality then quantity will follow.   The quality of RP currently is shocking, LSRP has always been known as a med-heavy RP server and it's currently cops and robbers almost, it's pretty appauling and there is barely any action to fix it, consequences for poor behaviour in here is non-existent almost, currently LSRP has some solid support from quality RPers but that will soon fade and it will be left with with nothing but an empty shell, sadly.  

Edited August 7, 2023 by Dai
Grammar.

[westfordd]

7 minutes ago, Dai said:

+ Support,  I won't go in to chapter and verse most of this has been covered but i'll add my supporting comments which is thus.   If you want quantity, quality leaves, if you want quality then quantity will follow.   The quality of RP currently is shocking, LSRP has always been known as a med-heavy RP server and it's currently cops and robbers almost, it's pretty appauling and there is barely any action to fix it, consequences for poor behaviour in here is non-existent almost, currently LSRP has some solid support from quality RPers but that will soon fade and it will be left with with nothing but an empty shell, sadly.  

It's going to turn into world's vibe of a DM haven. You're totally right, it's starting to slip and sadly, it's not going to stop unless something is done.

Edited August 7, 2023 by westfordd

[Evil Kelan]

Hey everyone!

 

Ain't gonna introduce myself properly yet as I am new to this community (and I wanna do it by roleplaying, not texting on the forum). As a start, I am an old RPer (RPing since 2014), and I write this because I was asked for my opinion.

 

I will start on saying that I will not go back in my history, resuming old situations from my past, just like these, where CRITICAL problems couldn't be solved (opened myself a few topics just like this a few times), and the servers ended up in closing/or with 10 players playing. The discussion's not about this, I know, just wanted to make my position straight from the start, so that you know that I am familiar with this situations.

 

I will say this: if your character finds himself/herself in a sensible spot, and you choose to do something EXTREME, there should be CONSQUENCES and that's it. From here it separates into two: OOC CONSQUENCES and IC CONSEQUENCES. As for example, in no way somebody will pull out a gun when he is aimed at already, or choose to shoot if he/she is outnumbered or knows that will be outnumbered soon. If you don't know ICly with who you deal with, you never choose extreme situations, because it's not realistic and roleplay at all (everybody gets scared by something I can assure you), and especially not without detailed character development. If you do know that you are not under threat and you have an advantage (automatic gun, pistol at you, and let's say you only deal with a group of drunk guys, unafilliated, just messing with you) then it's just not an extreme situation, to be honest. It's about focusing on what your character knows, in that point, and what not. A solution that I thought of, from what my brain can right now, is creating a detailed rule (can't think about a name right now), detailing what risks there could be ICly and OOCly if somebody chooses an extreme action.

 

Besides that, massive DM (here reffering to killing all day for being bored, constant need for fun or just to avoid certain scenarios, unable to create fun RP and etc.) starts from only one, let's say, position players find themselves into: there are too many guns and too little as-fun-as-DM roleplay. I think that, in general, this has roots in the general idea that constant shootouts are much more fun that character development and roleplay. Which is not ok from my opinion and is very, very hard to change in everybody. Guns should mean, in the first place, protection and safety, and after that a source of income. It's not realistic to think about guns as just weapons.   

 

The rest of this subject I thought it's not worth repeating because you talked about it already. Won't help. I hope that what I wrote will help, because I am a new guy and I can only talk from what I can see, for now. I am not a direct "victim" of the problems mentioned here, just talking from my experience and what I understood the problems are. But in the future I wish I won't encounter these problems, and this is my personal reason why I wrote this.

 

Peace to y'all. 

 

(P.S. I hope I was on point)

[Nyla P]

8 hours ago, ROZE said:

I really don't think forced CKs would even fix much, the kinds of people you're talking about don't exactly favour character development, if given a free CK they'd just link back up with their old buddies and do the same thing, if anything I think it would devalue a CK

 

There are other ways to handle this, we just need to figure it out

Do what yall can do decrease the constant DM. Ive gon days where Im only able to rp for a few minutes, then spend the rest of my time driving around, witnessing DM, or being DM myself. There’s not much else illegal factions can do, other than shoot each other. No one is hardly buying drugs. (All drugs are the same and give no benefits. Like atleast add tiers.) Its always “lemme get some metal”, or “fuck the dope, niggas need straps!” 
create actual scripts that will aide roleplay, and people WILL ROLEPLAY!

[SCANDALOUZ]

Random 2AM thought on this:

 

If mechanisms designed to create consequences subsequently help improve the quality of role play, and serve as incentives for more realistic in-character behavior  then...

 

Lack of such mechanisms subsequently serves as an incentive for...?

[Tungsten]

2 hours ago, Clown_Taxi said:

textwall

 

a few criticisms:

 

1. this would be nearly impossible to script. what does it mean for a death to be witnessed? if i am 1000 feet away, AFK in an alleyway, does the script see this as a witness in the area? or are we hoping to solve this with ray tracing lines of sight?

 

2. respawning in prison sounds like a decent idea, but what if it's a headshot. if i get hit 11 times in the head by 5.56x45mm rounds or peppered with 12G buck shot, it's over man... nobody can survive that. should people be "forced" to roleplay the permanent disabilities associated with getting absolutely decimated by such high-powered ammunition? what if i continue to get messed up in shootings, is it more realistic that my body would just give in or that i survived for the 5th time and was rebuilt like the six million dollar man?

 

idk this is full of flaws in logic that run completely antithetical to hardcore roleplay, because it relies on making assumptions that could never occur in the real world. creates more problems than it solves.

[Clown_Taxi]

2 minutes ago, Tungsten said:

a few criticisms:

 

Thank you for taking your time on furthering the discussion for this!

 

So;

 

1- Should have gone more in detail for this in the original text but it was already pretty long. What I've meant by a PD witness is that let's say you got killed in a shootout against PD. You have that 3-5 min period where you lie on the ground before you can use /respawnme. A PD officer can come up to your wounded body and e.g. use /addsentence [ID] [additional parameters] to extend your sentence that you'll start spending by spawning in prison. Talking about a literal IC witness here, not a script-wise one.

 

2- Actually, we already take the lower hand in the case of implementing actual hardcore roleplay to keep things orderly enjoyable on an OOC sense. In your example, we're willing to take things into account like where you got shot, how much of an impairment that would leave etc.. However at the same time we have things like faction vehicles in the game where you are not able to break into it and ride off because it is simply "protected". Even more relevant to my main point, does simply being able to respawn at your house in 3 minutes after being gunned down by an entire magazine of SMG not contradict with the hardcore roleplay mentality even more? We cannot also go above and beyond to declare that every PK is a CK since that would also make the game unplayable. My point is that we have to trim some of our hardcore enforcements with some "anti-realistic" measures to keep the game in a playable state. Not forcing impairments and assuming that LS has the state-of-art medical technology to get you up and walking is a lower hand we can take in this case, in my opinion.