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I like them, I'd love to have them on the server But the main argument I've heard so far is: - It takes away from the GTA 5 character customization experience and no one wants to see duplicate skins like we have on SAMP. From a dev standpoint: - The few ped models I've tried, you can't apply clothing on them and most of our script jobs will require changing in to a uniform so these models would be incompatible which we can't have. If @Lacoste The Builder is right, we could make a list of which peds can have their clothes changed and allow them based off of that. I wouldn't expect anything like that until post launch though.

What always pains my heart is that people have managed to generated and breed this never ending cycle of division between legal & illegal roleplayers, yet what they do not understand is that one party cannot manage to survive without the other. I feel like yes, to an extent legal rp is more dominant as GTA5 is mainstream and it does call for people from other platforms to migrate, mainly IMVU, Second-Life, Habboo, Gmod and so on. Overall games or communities who do have their own share of roleplay, although it's not as dominant as it us on our platform-- GTA, and it's also these clients that we would consider or call 'sub-par' due to how poor the roleplay scene is. But we cannot blame them, as they've not seen any better. The best way to improve this is by enchanting people's roleplay, me personally I've been on and off GTAW for the past few years. And to be honest with you, there were days and nights where I would just walk around the street, run into a civilian and just roleplay with them. We're talking legal roleplayers, not illegal. And yes, just like any other community they do have their share of 'weirdos' or internet 'fiends' but we must admit. We've had them in the past too. In both the illegal and legal roleplay fields. Overall, I feel like we've to just embrace the fact that it's not SAMP anymore. The demographics have changed, and it's best for us as a community to embrace that fact. If we want LSRP:V to strive and to bang up big digits, then we'll have to co-exist and learn how to roleplay with the legal roleplayers because just like the Thread Holder of the topic said, we the illegal roleplayers are no longer the MAJORITY. Not only that but other illegal roleplayers are migrating over from other communities, FiveM for the most part. The roleplay there is no-where near being elite, so considering the fact how small the illegal community is now, think about how many are veterans and how many are new. For the most part, people have grown up and have grown out of the game. No longer can you see dudes from 2007 still roam the community. People have partners, kids, professions and other aspects of life that interest them more than this thing of ours. However on the other hand, GTA5 is very similar to SAMP during the youth of San Andreas' most downloaded client. There's a new playerbase, there are people who are to be taught, people that you're meant to pass the torch to. So for the remaining illegal RPers who have a lengthy history when it comes to LSRP, and roleplaying as a whole? I heavily advise you to SHARE your knowledge and to TEACH these people, be amiable and if anything encourage quality but also kindness at the same time. Toxicity is what killed LSRP, let's make sure that history doesn't repeat itself.

Reading through this discussion at 1am really gave me a better insight in the things that LSRP could achieve. To make a change, it's not up to the administrators, it's not up to the servers management, it's up to us... serio... some real shit... never thought that I'd be the one to say it... that's when you know it's real... I... Authentic... I will be the first to stand... as I put my hand to my chest, and look to the sky... I say... To the future Legal Community of Los Santos Roleplay... I will promise to stop belittling every person who doesn't focus their roleplay on crime... The term "Mallrats", or "Mallratos", I put it behind me, as this in reality does nothing but plague the future... I call to everybody... embrace the Legal Scene... as without them... Us illegal role players would be in vain. serio...

Welcome back sir Aslan

The only way to kill World is to provide a better admin team and IFM. You have inexperienced mallrat admins on World interfering in IFM business and not doing their job. LS RP is home and yes, please get a good unbiased FT.

Hey, I'm genuinely curious if courts are gonna be a thing on LSRP5. I remember that they used to be a thing on the SAMP-based LSRP, however was never really active or paid any attention to, due to the fact that they had very little say, and you were only able to contest charges after serving time for them (which was quite literally a counter-incentive to appealing them, and cops had a final say on whether you're gonna spend 10h in prison or not). My question is; will the criminal justice system be reworked here? I feel like implementing a system similiar to the one that currently works on GTAW would be a really neat addition to both legal and illegal roleplay. Also just to counter a couple points before they'll be brought up - I can guarantee you that there will be several people interested in roleplaying judges, lawyers, and prosecutors if that's made possible. I feel like a system like this doesn't harm anybody (even if the court cases are "roleplayed" via forums in order to save some time), and only enhances the entire experience.

I wouldn't say it worked well. Since the 2018 penal code update, there were 3 changes to it by the State Senate. We found a lot to change and some flaws while reviewing it to rewrite so I can't even say it's because there was nothing to do.

It'll be a great idea to bring this courts thing idea alive. It'll carry on with more roleplay before an arrest is made, and like Florida mention above: Should be really handled by the state's prosecutors. I hope that there'll be players to roleplay it on this one so it'll be a way more realistic enviroment for everyone.

Should be handled by the State prosecutors. If your case is weak and has no validity it should get no billed and dropped by the state before it ever sees a court room. That's why I brought up bail and other systems.

Ped skins are needed!

My man

cool!!!

Living legend

There's a huge misconseption about what civilian roleplayers are. A lot of people seem to assume that a civilian roleplayer is just somebody who stands at the mall and does fuck all else, and if that's what you immediately think of when you think of civilian roleplay then I can confidently say that you have the completely wrong idea about it and should try to be more open about what civilian roleplay is. The bartenders and security guards in that club you went to, The taxi driver that picked you up, The guy doing taxes for businesses, That person you seen jogging along the beach, These are the people that make the world feel busy and alive. Do you really assume that every person you drive past is either a cop or a thug? When you actually roleplay in the civilian scene, you realise how many players are actually playing LSRP to, you guest it, roleplay something realistic. I've met so many amazing roleplayers who simply log on to socialise, go to work (an ic job like bartending, doing graphics, news reporting), go for a meal, then go home. I promise you that there are more people than you think roleplaying like this, and it's what fills up the world with normal, civilian people. When I was running Roze Enterprise we hired over 150 people across 2 years. Yes, one hundred and fifty people interested in civilian roleplay with one faction. We were one of the only civilian factions ever to provide full time jobs to anyone who was willing to put in the effort and trust me, a lot of people enjoyed roleplaying a full time job; bartending, doing security, trucking, whatever, with a team. The people that you see as mallrats are the same people that we turned away from the faction. You assume that they are civilian roleplayers, generally the people you are thinking of are just trollers. For a non-illegal faction, the amount of interest that we seen for civilian roleplay was overwhelming - Another civilian faction that did very well was Roux, which created a lot of jobs for the playerbase and created a lot of very high quality civilian roleplay. With good support for civilian roleplay it would be more common to see amazing civilian factions creating jobs and helping the economy, as well as filling in the empty space between illegal roleplayers and cops. If civilian roleplay was taken more seriously, you would see more IC businesses that are run realistically - Competing with other businesses, creating a job market etc, and not just a "front for my illegal faction". You would see in character news companies showing up to big events. You would see Los Santos University opening up and actually becoming stable. Civilian roleplay is the part that fills in all of the gaps to make the world feel alive, and not just a cops and robbers server. The two major issues that have been affecting the civilian scene are the economy, and the fact that a lot of people majorly misinterpret what civilian roleplay even is in the first place.

I'm responding to this entire post directly as I don't think I could physically disagree with everything you've said more. Also I had this pre-written and the forums ate my post, so I'm dashing this out fast. I'm not editing this as I can't be fucked to do it twice. I've already wasted enough time writing it. Apologies for the wall of text, I have COVID and literally nothing better to do. Mechanic paychecks in no way promote role play, in any form. How are hourly paychecks an acceptable parallel to the financial incentives that existed in legal/illegal role play, who also have access to them? Players would be motivated to remain within factions and role play around guns / drugs as those assets very literally translated to a form of income (especially pre drug nerf). Why do you think players PF abused, for the thrill? They did it because it made money. Players will role play in businesses because it makes money. The script in question is designed to be an alternative to script jobs. It creates passive role play for the entire community with the opening of businesses, it rewards players for taking an active role, and it helps teach them the fundamentals of role play. This provides a solution to the fucking miserable new player experience which boiled down to "wait an unreasonable amount of time before you have literally anything, or drive a truck around like a complete dickhead and make peanuts." This would be beneficial to everybody. I very literally don't see a single argument for how this could possibly be a bad thing. I can assure you that in my 6,000+ hours playing exclusively in an administrative capacity, speccing players, and specifically being tasked by management to explore the functionality of script jobs, I have never once seen a legitimate illegal role player drive a truck. I could drive to Donald Scarpa's house and put a gun to his head and I don't think I could get him to do a single malt run. This doesn't happen. The only job that I've ever seen illegal role players use is mechanic. The same script that you're criticizing in your previous point directly remedies the problem that you're pointing out here. It removes a significant burden from the business owners and promotes businesses opening consistently. I fail to see how any of this is a bad thing. This is just a bizarre, inappropriate jump to conclusion that is completely devoid of any truth. If you apply the same logic to any other script it falls flat. Should the /me command be removed as it's ripe for abuse? Why release the server if it's going to enable players to troll and dm? This is why LS:RP and every other role play server on pretty much any game has a standing staff team. This is the direct purpose of having a staff that logs in-game and actively moderates. All scripts can be abused in some form. This isn't exclusive to what we're discussing. The "image" that civilian role players harbor is entirely in your head. That's the perception of them that your experiences have fostered. You saying they're "associated mostly with mall rats" or people who "can't roleplay, who just want to provoke" is simply inflammatory and isn't grounded in reality. I'm sorry that you've had bad personal experiences but in no way is this reflective of literally the most thematically diverse group of players on the server. Employing scripting in any way isn't going to change this. I'd also like to point out what we're also referencing things that are outside of scripting (i.e. community initiatives). Remember when you first logged on, and you weren't aware of the mechanic job? Do you remember another player telling you about passive income, and you only had to have the mechanic job to get it? Do you remember having them take you to Blueberry and show you where it is, so you could get it? Does this sound like the basis of a functioning, planned economy to you? The mechanic job was designed in 2009-2010 to the best of my recollection, well before anybody on LS:RP starting taking role play seriously. The passive $1,250 is a remnant of a bygone era, scripted for a community that looks nothing like it does today. It wasn't designed to be role play income. It wasn't really designed for anything, and heralding it as the solution to these problems is incredibly short sighted. The only real reason that mechanic paychecks and savings existed is that LS:RPs economy was complete fucking garbage (read: nonexistent). They were a solution of convenience, as ripping the economic backbone out of a twelve year old project was well beyond the experience of management and development. Why are you so intent on maintaining a script realistically should have zero relevance today? Assuming you're asking for something similar to the LS:RP script, you are very literally asking players to play 1,000+ in electronic squalor for a taste of financial security. None of this promotes role play, it promotes time investment. I'm not explicitly talking about these sort of quasi-minigame scripts, but I find it staggering that you have a problem with them. People went ape shit over poker when it came out, and while I'll admit that it didn't exactly provide riveting role play, I don't understand how giving players things to do is a bad thing. If they added golf I think I would spend 90% of my time playing it / role playing around it. Tennis too. That sounds great. LS:RP always had a problem with interest in NPC role play. The best example I can think of: when was the last time somebody role played stealing a phone during a robbery? Why the fuck would you? Offering players something tangible (i.e. item scripts) provides players with something more than a non-committal line of text to back up what they're doing. I'm not asking for development to shit up the map with a bunch of minigames and circus fanfare. Re-read the original post, you're jumping to insane conclusions again. a. This post is equating all of civilian role play to a small minority of civilian role players who existed on LS:RP. Again, re-read the original post. The landscape has changed. Criminal role players are the minority on GTA 5. Thousands of civilian role players exist who aren't ROZE. GTA RP exists outside of LS:RP. b. I was the lead admin who directly dealt with ROZE as they fell under my purview for businesses when they were just a player. In the latter half of my tenure, I frankly stopped giving a fuck about the the communities perception of certain player's quality when they consistently showed that they were trying their absolute best. This line of thinking is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that players are too stone-headed to realize that role play exists outside of the LS:RP cops and robbers meta. The fact that you don't accept that ROZE, Valentine or Saunders would have deserved even a shred of recognition from staff and the support to excel in what they do is the best example I can find of LS:RPs outdated approach to factions fundamentally fucking up people's perception of role play. It is incredible how fast you made my point for me. I'm not trying to be rude, but I seriously don't understand this paragraph in response to the theme of the thread. Can you reword this so I can respond to it, please? "Elite civilian role play" conceptually doesn't exist, nor is it an elitist troupe of sequestered aristocrats who lord over the other non-criminals like they're trying to reenact a Bohemian Grove meeting. It also isn't a gaggle of real life Melvins sitting in an interior and talking to each other OOCly. It is an overarching theme that realistically encompasses every character in some way. I don't think drawing allusions towards legal/illegal role play really works in this context. I'm asking them to do literally anything other than nothing. Civilian role play has had exactly zero representatives and zero focus since 2008. It very literally hasn't ever been considered by staff in any form outside of businesses and companies, the former being largely auxiliary to illegals, the latter coming out far too late. I am aware of this as during my tenure as staff, I believe only I and maybe a handful of others ever gave a shit about civilians. In the climate of 2022 GTA RP, this is no longer sustainable. That is the purpose of this thread. I've role played exclusively criminal and criminal auxiliary characters. This thread isn't me asking for special attention for myself and people who role play like me. This is me bringing up that a large market of GTA 5 RP isn't something that LS:RP has ever dealt with in a large capacity before, and if they intend for the server to be financially prosperous (protip: they do), leaving that market entirely untapped may not be possible. By "scripts," I mean literally a handful of scripts above zero. By "administration," I mean a point of contact. I'm asking that the thing that every other facet of the server has also be applied to a potential market of hundreds of players (read: customers). "Civilian" incentives largely benefit everybody regardless. I don't see why you have a problem with it. You understand that even though you're in X criminal faction, you can still benefit from dynamic business map markers and item creation scripts, right?

Ragemp fixed that issue in their latest update I think

Yeah I agree, and if I'm being honest Civilian RP on world isn't all its cracked up to be. The great civilian RPers are going to move here, I can see it happening now because even alot of them are fed up with some of the shit going on on that server. Civilians provoking gangbangers in their turfs, mallrats leading factions and being favoured by mallrat IFM members, civilian RPers constantly crying about being robbed when they pull up to the hood in their sports cars and walking around South Central and other slummy parts of LS dressing in suits / flashy clothes. If you go to some places, it doesn't matter whether you're innocent or a civilian, if you look like a target, you will be a target I'm confident that LSRPV is going to compete with that server in all ways, shapes and forms because I've never seen the amount of nonsense that I experienced there on any other community, especially not LSRP.

You generally have to remember a lot of los santos roleplay have had years and years of experience of where they have gone wrong and are able to come over these things and reflect and perhaps create a better legal system, the civilian roleplay is going to be extremely good on LS-RP but we do need to be patient. I feel like a lot of people will return for the name itself, a lot of people don’t agree with a lot of things on World, but you have to remember they’ve done a very good job themselves. Yes, it’s a bit of competition but the work Mmartin and co have put into the script is insane and we need to try and provide the roleplay to the community itself. a lot of people don’t agree with the way IFM handle things, on LS-RP I’m hoping Faction Team can be good, where we can be dynamic and unique and hopefully have a 50/50 between illegal roleplay and legal roleplay.

Hey Cayl, as a faction encourage diversity among characters and players. This is something actually being looked upon by leadership as far as I've read, and there's a whole host of changes coming along to discourage this as you spoke about. Our faction leadership has been heavily encouraging community engagement in character. Players who followed this were met with commendations and promotions. But, as far as policy goes where everything feels the same when you say "just followed a formula." I do agree this felt like the case and we could look into revising the manuals and looking into changing the FTP program to encourage more diversity among officers. So, this is most definitely something were going to be working toward. We strive as a faction to be 1:1 with the LAPD and working with budgets brings a level of realism that were more than open to welcome. Currently, I know that we are looking into attaching weapons to people, so Person A is responsible for Weapon A. Meaning, if we find an increase of lost weapons with Person A, it's likely that we will notice the dip in the budget. Everything will be tracked coming inside and outside of the faction. On part of "New Officer hiring could increase or decrease based on the budget." This is something we definitely could look into, although likely it won't be implemented for at least first few recruitment drives as we're planning on staffing up the department. But this is something that will have a bigger play later on. I can confidently say that the difficulty to get into the LSPD will be factors more difficult and more realistic, were not too concerned of over-saturating the department. But, If we do see an increased interest and people still passing for sure a great idea. Another point you mention is "Lawsuits affect the departments funds and in return puts very realistic pressure on the department heads to make sure people are on point and money isn't wasted." This is a very real and great point, while I do agree that this is a significant reason that officer's have body-cams today as it would prevent and reduce the amount of lawsuits going toward the department. Going forward, we will definitely be looking out on our actions and what we have to do to keep the community safe. As far as the community fundraiser's go, initially upon server release it most likely won't be something we will be implementing on the short-term. Once we gauge how much our expenses to income ratios are and calculate based off of that we most definitely could be hosting events in the near future. Even if they're not fundraisers we are looking into this as a wider area to expand community outreach and roleplay. For the budgeting of bullets goes I will have to agree with Bauer here as it would be a little more difficult to track and calculate. Thanks for the suggestions, feel free to post more of how you feel so we can meet the needs of everyone :)!

LS:RP, originally being an edit of the Godfather, was from it's core a complicated form of cops and robbers role play. While many players found different avenues to create and play as characters with varying success outside of this meta, there is no denying that the root of the game, the majority of the player base, and the systems created to facilitate role play were all centered around law enforcement and criminal factions respectively. If you're looking for success, I believe it's important to reconcile that the GTA RP landscape seems to've changed. While I won't explicitly criticize or promote the community in saying this: I find it funny when people rail against certain systems GTA:W uses, a frequent highlight being the lack of focus the overall community has on illegal factions. With what I've observed through admittedly a low amount of play (about ~100-150 hours), I think a hard pill that many of the old guard players refuse to swallow is that you are not the majority demographic anymore. While a good amount of LS:RP players had made the trip to GTA:W, I've noticed through Discord hopping and communicating with players that a majority of them stem from more social role playing games, many of which I'd say are hardly compatible with the LS:RP C&R format. GTA:W seems to deliberately cater to these players, and rightfully so. The expectation that illegal / old guard role players should be center stage is a remnant of the attitude of old LS:RP. Frankly put: I fully believe that in order to be competitive in the market, the former approach of leaving these players to their own devices simply is no longer possible. The largest takeaway I have from my theory is that players beget players. I don't think it's reasonable to expect LS:RP to be competitive in the market if the primary goal is to simply bring the old community into the new platform. The remaining veterans aren't going to make the switch if the player counts are glaringly in favor of the communities they're already in, and the opposite demo won't make the switch unless they're compelled with very good reasoning. In both cases, you'd be asking many players to abandon relationships with the server, factions, characters, other players, assets and potentially thousands of hours of progress and whatever else that progress may entail. I think it's become far too trendy to blindly criticize GTA:W. Don't get me wrong, I have the same problems with it that you do. That being said, I've been preaching for quite some time that, while yes I think true that the community objectively has some problems, simply dismissing every idea out of Nervous' head as bad is an overly elitist, unrealistic line of thinking. Truthfully, some of the scripts regarding businesses, dynamic item creation, map markers, and static info points are downright genius, and very literally go above and beyond facilitating role play, particularly for civilian role players. In short: how does LS:RP compete with other communities in this area, which has specifically been sidelined for years and which the community may be woefully underequipped to handle?

I agree with a lot in this thread and there’s a lot of things that GTAW has pioneered in the legal roleplay space that LS-RP should definitely take note of and strive to implement or try to support in this community. After playing LS-RP for 6 years and GTAW since it’s launch I definitely can say I look forward to what LS-RP has to offer in terms of both illegal and legal roleplay and can’t wait for launch. After playing GTAW on both the legal and illegal side, leading the court system and being in many illegal factions, the experience I’ve had playing LS-RP was much more enjoyable than what I’ve had on GTAW and I’m sure many others feel the same way and look forward to the competition.