Learn from Past Mistakes

[Anthony_Navarra]

1 hour ago, Ronnie2Polez said:

Cool, I mean sure we can do all that and make the factions here tip-top but the problem is the concept here on LSRP V isn't unique enough. 

 

Might have a cool phone script, a cool clothing script, but from what I see it, and no bias here - I agree with what you're saying about GTA:World, but this is the same community that was using your donation money for e-gambling, still not that much transparency with the staff, where is Mmartin, again?

 

I want to play here, but it's going to be hard to gain my trust back. 

 

Like I said I agree with the GTA:World comment, but the concept here isn't original enough to have longevity. 

 

This concept, heavy-RP on GTA V has been done, and will continue to be done.

 

LC-RP is full of a ridiculous staff, but they have a great concept.

 

Things you may not like about GTA:World exist, but they have a great foundation.

 

How will LS:RP compete?

 

Again, not trying to bash, I want to play here too, but it's hard to gain my trust as I was a 10 year player here. 

 

Learn from past mistakes.

 

 

 

It's not been done properly. Name one server that ACTUALLY promotes heavy rp? If you don't trust the staff, then don't bother playing. Simple as. 

 

No server is gonna be perfect, that much I know. LSRP will be competition as long as they stick to the plan, and actually promote heavy roleplay - and put good staff in. 

[Dos Santos]

2 hours ago, Ronnie2Polez said:

Cool, I mean sure we can do all that and make the factions here tip-top but the problem is the concept here on LSRP V isn't unique enough. 

 

Might have a cool phone script, a cool clothing script, but from what I see it, and no bias here - I agree with what you're saying about GTA:World, but this is the same community that was using your donation money for e-gambling, still not that much transparency with the staff, where is Mmartin, again?

 

I want to play here, but it's going to be hard to gain my trust back. 

 

Like I said I agree with the GTA:World comment, but the concept here isn't original enough to have longevity. 

 

This concept, heavy-RP on GTA V has been done, and will continue to be done.

 

LC-RP is full of a ridiculous staff, but they have a great concept.

 

Things you may not like about GTA:World exist, but they have a great foundation.

 

How will LS:RP compete?

 

Again, not trying to bash, I want to play here too, but it's hard to gain my trust as I was a 10 year player here. 

 

Learn from past mistakes.

 

LS-RP has had it's flaws, and so has GTA World. Simply saying how will LS-RP compete, is ridiculous. Surely people should be thinking more the factors that this is a complete different community, the community has history and has a name for itself for being one of the best roleplay servers about, why do you think so many people are returning to the server? Because of the illegal community scene that LS-RP has presented in the past, and is going to present once again. Simply saying that you're going to find it hard to trust LS-RP, that's completely wrong. At the moment there's a lot of stuff being developed behind the scenes which hasn't been released to the community yet, but things are being worked on behind the scenes. We generally just need to wait for a little while until the launch and see how things go, but I have full faith in the team to push these updates and provide us with a fun enjoying server, as that's what we all want. Somewhere to roleplay, and enjoy in our free time.

[Dirk]

Well said

[Redz]

21 hours ago, Ronnie2Polez said:

Cool, I mean sure we can do all that and make the factions here tip-top but the problem is the concept here on LSRP V isn't unique enough. 

 

Might have a cool phone script, a cool clothing script, but from what I see it, and no bias here - I agree with what you're saying about GTA:World, but this is the same community that was using your donation money for e-gambling, still not that much transparency with the staff, where is Mmartin, again?

 

I want to play here, but it's going to be hard to gain my trust back. 

 

Like I said I agree with the GTA:World comment, but the concept here isn't original enough to have longevity. 

 

This concept, heavy-RP on GTA V has been done, and will continue to be done.

 

LC-RP is full of a ridiculous staff, but they have a great concept.

 

Things you may not like about GTA:World exist, but they have a great foundation.

 

How will LS:RP compete?

 

Again, not trying to bash, I want to play here too, but it's hard to gain my trust as I was a 10 year player here. 

 

Learn from past mistakes.

 

Transparency couldn't be any better than it is right now. Martin speaks with us weekly , takes ideas, gives us previews and so on. So rest assured he's around and hard at work.  My suggestion would be to subscribe to the tier 3 patreon group where you can also have an input as we.l get to see the work that has been done. 

 

 

[Chuckles]

The benefit of hindsight is knowing what you done wrong so that you can make it better. The reason other servers are used as a comparison is because it's applicable to this server's growth. People that claim its prototype and old apparatus will be the reason for its success are being naïve and simple-minded. You look at what gave LSRP longevity and you look at what gives GTAw longevity: each platform had no competition and were able to monopolize the brand. Now you're looking at a completely different landscape in the sense that for once in our existence there will be competition. Recent shortcomings and failures of other prominent servers show you first hand that incompetency and putting people where they don't belong are the driving force behind mass migration.

 

Tossing a coin and hoping for the best upon launch is like playing Russian roulette and is more of a hit-and-hope assessment. Contingencies need to be put in place and experience, knowledge and understanding should be behind every decision, every role and every enforcement. What needs to be understood here is what made LSRP successful in the past will no longer be its strength. Similar to what I've explained above, the reason for its success also has the potential to be its Achilles heel. At the end of the day and I'll be the first to admit, there was a lot of room for improvement. The reality was the server hadn't been the same from around 2018 or so and this was through an overall lack of standard, something the most of us (even in IFM at the time) turned a blind eye to.

 

Looking at others' mistakes is just as important as looking at your own mistakes except in this case, you can feed off of others' mistakes and hope to capitalize on it. It's not giving the wrong impression at all, it's highly applicable and anybody that doesn't understand that are part of the problem of being stagnant and complacent.

 

You can fix your own mistakes. You can learn and improve from others' mistakes whilst also taking advantage of them. It's a double edged sword.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Chuckles

[Kane]

On 11/14/2021 at 3:00 PM, Ronnie2Polez said:

where is Mmartin, again?

 

Please don't come on here with your false sentiments & lets not spread any rumors. Martin holds weekly staff meetings along with the early supporters and actively participates in Discord and on the forum everyday. This shouldn't have to be explained to anyone whose been paying attention but I rather end this here before it starts up. Thank you.

[tut]

 

4 hours ago, Chuckles said:

 You look at what gave LSRP longevity and you look at what gives GTAw longevity: each platform had no competition and were able to monopolize the brand.

 

 

 

samp had tons of English rp text ranging form light to heavy vying for the same player base. It wasn't just LSRP.

 

 

Anyways, you're saying a lot of aphorism that read good, but if you take two steps it all sums up to focus; "on illegal rp." with a lot of wise quotes thrown in the midst to make it sound good. This is one of the focuses but there are many more rp wise.  Overall the main focus of this server is lsrp and lsrp only.

Edited November 16, 2021 by tut
quotes

[Chuckles]

51 minutes ago, tut said:

 

 

samp had tons of English rp text ranging form light to heavy vying for the same player base. It wasn't just LSRP.

 

 

Anyways, you're saying a lot of aphorism that read good, but if you take two steps it all sums up to focus; "on illegal rp." with a lot of wise quotes thrown in the midst to make it sound good. This is one of the focuses but there are many more rp wise.  Overall the main focus of this server is lsrp and lsrp only.

 

Quote

 Illegal roleplay shouldn't be prioritized by any means but it should be treated with the same amount of respect as legal roleplay and given the same opportunity of prosperity.

 

If you paid attention to the substance instead of the quote in a reply to another contributor then maybe you wouldn't mistake the purpose of the thread. The focus of the thread is to help LSRP, not any other server. Between the reference to aphorisms and the mention of quotes I'd say the only reason you've posted is to exhibit your competence in literature. Well done, you can read and write. So if that's what you take from this thread then I'd ask you to stay out of the discussion and leave it to those who are trying to promote change and raise awareness to the subject at hand.

 

It's not exploitive, it's opportunistic. There's plenty of light roleplay servers on both platforms but there's been very few English speaking heavy roleplay servers with a decent player base. But again, I suppose that depends on your interpretation of "heavy."

 

There's no need to point out the obvious. If your take on this is the "focus of this server is lsrp and lsrp only" then you're talking to a brick wall.

[tut]

42 minutes ago, Chuckles said:

 

 

If you paid attention to the substance instead of the quote in a reply to another contributor then maybe you wouldn't mistake the purpose of the thread. The focus of the thread is to help LSRP, not any other server. Between the reference to aphorisms and the mention of quotes I'd say the only reason you've posted is to exhibit your competence in literature. Well done, you can read and write. So if that's what you take from this thread then I'd ask you to stay out of the discussion and leave it to those who are trying to promote change and raise awareness to the subject at hand.

 

It's not exploitive, it's opportunistic. There's plenty of light roleplay servers on both platforms but there's been very few English speaking heavy roleplay servers with a decent player base. But again, I suppose that depends on your interpretation of "heavy."

 

There's no need to point out the obvious. If your take on this is the "focus of this server is lsrp and lsrp only" then you're talking to a brick wall.

 

Alright I'll try to address this in points.

 

 0.  The "illegal roleplay shouldn't be prioritized" quote you brought up doesn't invalidate anything I said, as the main issue brought forth by yourself that we need to "learn" from is illegal roleplay being the "foundation". Which is solid feedback as we've been hearing it a lot.  I was just more so pointing out that being the main points amongst all the text walls.

 

1. Never said it helped any other server.

 

2. Thank you.

 

3. No, I stated the "obvious" to more direct the conversation towards what you felt the "old lsrp" had as mistakes that we need to learn from.  For example one of the things was transparency, which was responded to with weekly staff meetings.

 

4. True.

 

5. (3)

 

 

I'll reiterate mainly because this is typing and you can't really hear how I'm saying this as it's in a none argumentative way, but I fully agree with your point. The point of making all aspects equal and not putting one over the other (I.E) putting illegal roleplay down while cratering towards legal . My point is that I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone in staff who doesn't agree with this and it's already an issue is being addressed, keeping all aspects equal.  I'm just looking for more honest past mistakes from our community that could be addressed.

Edited November 16, 2021 by tut
I'm kinda dumb, gotta make it read right.

[tut]

 

On 11/14/2021 at 5:00 PM, Ronnie2Polez said:

Cool, I mean sure we can do all that and make the factions here tip-top but the problem is the concept here on LSRP V isn't unique enough. 

 

Might have a cool phone script, a cool clothing script, but from what I see it, and no bias here - I agree with what you're saying about GTA:World, but this is the same community that was using your donation money for e-gambling, still not that much transparency with the staff, where is Mmartin, again?

 

I want to play here, but it's going to be hard to gain my trust back. 

 

Like I said I agree with the GTA:World comment, but the concept here isn't original enough to have longevity. 

 

This concept, heavy-RP on GTA V has been done, and will continue to be done.

 

LC-RP is full of a ridiculous staff, but they have a great concept.

 

Things you may not like about GTA:World exist, but they have a great foundation.

 

How will LS:RP compete?

 

Again, not trying to bash, I want to play here too, but it's hard to gain my trust as I was a 10 year player here. 

 

Learn from past mistakes.

 

 

 

I'd say just wait and see for the to answer the compete question. Outside of that I think the other point you have is uniqueness, the server is still being worked on and there's more unique things being added. The transparency has been somewhat answered already.

Edited November 16, 2021 by tut

[The Diplomat]

16 minutes ago, tut said:

 

Alright I'll try to address this in points.

 

 0.  The "illegal roleplay shouldn't be prioritized" quote you brought up doesn't invalidate anything I said, as the main issue brought forth by yourself that we need to "learn" from is illegal roleplay being the "foundation". Which is solid feedback as we've been hearing it a lot.  I was just more so pointing out that being the main points amongst all the text walls.

 

1. Never said it helped any other server.

 

2. Thank you.

 

3. No, I stated the "obvious" to more direct the conversation towards what you felt the "old lsrp" had as mistakes that we need to learn from.  For example one of the things was transparency, which was responded to with weekly staff meetings.

 

4. True.

 

5. (3)

 

 

I'll reiterate mainly because this is typing and you can't really hear how I'm saying this as it's in a none argumentative way, but I fully agree with your point. The point of making all aspects equal and not putting one over the other (I.E) putting illegal roleplay down while cratering towards legal . My point is that I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone in staff who doesn't agree with this and it's already an issue is being addressed, keeping all aspects equal.  I'm just looking for more honest past mistakes from our community that could be addressed.

 

 

 

  

[Chuckles]

It completely invalidates it because the supposed summary was inaccurate. You can't summarize something that's not even one of the points brought up and the quote proves that. That's putting two and two together and getting five. Legal roleplay is just as important as illegal roleplay. None should be prioritized but neither one should be neglected or given precedence. There must be an equal balance.

 

But to synopsize the argument:

 

I'm not suggesting that LSRP should deviate from its system, what I'm suggestion is that it takes advantage of known issues in its own and other communities and corrects it. A lot what has people crossing its fingers for LSRP is problems that were on LSRP but weren't as bad. If you can rectify the problems and be receptive to constructive criticism without being sensitive to it then that's a step in the right direction. A lot of the time constructive criticism is perceived as discrediting when in reality all it is is a suggestion in the interest of bettering something. A lot of it has to do with miscomprehension as well.

 

Instead of saying, "the server has so many problems," I'm saying "the server could be better if..." At the end of the day what I'm trying to do is bring forward an opinion that has the potential to better the server. Again, it's an opinion but it's one I feel is shared by the wider community.

 

• 1. People with no experience in a genre shouldn't be handling reports that require experience in said genre.
• 2. People with no experience in a category or minimal experience in a category shouldn't be making decisions based on "rules" alone. They need to be able to put themselves in a character's shoes.
• 3. In terms of transparency I feel that players should be clued in on the decisions that either negatively or positively effect their characters or accounts. These "discussions" sometimes remain hidden and secluded and I've witnessed my fair share of hidden agendas impacting decisions. It cancels out the bias claims that are always associated to subgroups and gives players clarity.
• 4. Be consistent and forthright. If the community plays on this "case by case" or an arbitrary system then it opens it up to claims of double standard. Don't enforce a standard at your discretion. It must be on-size-fits-all.
• 5. Be engaging and ingenuous with the community. "Verified discussions" was a step in the right direction but after the departure of the administration that implemented it it was neglected and the public were given very few answers. A system like that should be implemented universally.
• 6. Put more power in the community's hands. In most communities discussions and decisions are open and closed. Meaning that any administrator or support member can close threads based on their discretion. In other words, if they don't like or agree with it then it's not worth the time of day. Stop this and let them play out.
• 7. Don't confuse "heavy" roleplay with hyperrealism. On other servers your faction is given virtually zero chance of existence if it doesn't go in line with Southern California. In a nutshell, if you're not an Armenian, Russian, skinhead or gang banger then you're held to an outrageous standard. Let players do what they want as long as their concept treats San Andreas like Southern California. All this "they wouldn't be here" shit is nothing more than micromanagement. If their concept isn't too far fetched and outside the lines of realism then leave them be. Who gives a fuck if there's three Italian crime families and a Serbian faction?
• 8. Put more investigative powers in the PD and SD's hands. Good criminal roleplay means good law enforcement roleplay. They bounce off of each other.
• 9. Make people value their characters. Enforce a CK rule if they put their lives at risk. 
• 10. Stop with the excessive amount of OOC prison time unless it's murder. Maybe even repeat robberies to try and crack down on chain robberies. People will just name change and it ruins longevity and continuation and also investigations.
• 11. Give players breathing space. Less micromanagement and bureaucracy. If we have a business and change characters, let us keep our move our businesses without stupid levels of scrutiny. We shouldn't have to account for every little thing our characters do down to the color of its socks.
• 12. Don't lower the standard because "they're all we've got." There's always ways around work load, most just don't want to spread it around.

I wasn't planning on writing this much so that "synopsis" I had planned is out the window  But this has been on the back of my mind for months. And for the record, as a former member of staff, very little in the aforementioned "staff meetings" ever came to fruition. Most of what was said or brought forward was wrote down like something was being done but very rarely was. It was always put in the rear-view. But a fresh start will change that, I hope.

 

Again, it's food for thought and was brought forward constructively. At the end of the day it's going to be a collective effort. Why not start prior to launch?

Edited November 16, 2021 by Chuckles

[Chuckles]

3 hours ago, Kane said:

 

Please don't come on here with your false sentiments & lets not spread any rumors. Martin holds weekly staff meetings along with the early supporters and actively participates in Discord and on the forum everyday. This shouldn't have to be explained to anyone whose been paying attention but I rather end this here before it starts up. Thank you.

Also, every time I look at Mmartin's name on discord it's "Playing: Rage Multiplayer," so you know he's putting the hours in.

 

Like Kane said, please don't derail the thread with pot-shots. The thread's centred around fixing idiosyncrasies, not faulting the server. If we can all combat the negatives and turn them into positives then by launch we'll already have one foot forward.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Chuckles

[Stormbird]

I get the whole "If admins aren't experienced in x genre then they shouldn't take the reports" argument, but you're forgetting that they are able to communicate with other staff over discord for second opinions if they're ever not sure. Illegal rp reports are usually one of two things;

 

1: They're pretty black and white metagame, powergame or dm reports which don't need any illegal rp experience to know it's outright stupid.

 

2: They're extremely complex reports that'll involve multiple admins working together anyway.

 

If you're saying to fob illegal rp reports off to IFM admins, they no doubt already have enough work to do with faction reports and handling multiple factions at once without having to deal with 15 pages of back and forth cock swinging. For ones that involve breach of ROE? Then sure, I agree have IFM handle it. I'm sure that's already how it works. For the most part though having IFM deal with every illegal rp report (since they're the only ones who would be 'experienced' enough according to your requirements) just isn't feasible due to their workload and volume of reports. They simply won't have enough admins experienced enough with illegal rp.

 

Most situations can be broken down using plain old common sense anyway.

Edited November 16, 2021 by Stormbird

[authentic lifestyle]

Well said, Chuckles.