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The Government and You


Maxim
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31 minutes ago, Fiendfyre said:

When are we going to see a penal code come out?

 

Penal code is being completely rewritten by @kendrick and I. Criminal code has been completed, we're now writing & reviewing the vehicle code. Everything should be finalized in a bit and it'll be posted before the month is over.

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10 hours ago, Kane said:

 

Penal code is being completely rewritten by @kendrick and I. Criminal code has been completed, we're now writing & reviewing the vehicle code. Everything should be finalized in a bit and it'll be posted before the month is over.

I look forward to seeing it. 

 

Is there going to be a Senate to add/change laws IC as time goes on? 

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10 hours ago, Fiendfyre said:

I look forward to seeing it. 

 

Is there going to be a Senate to add/change laws IC as time goes on? 

 

No plans for that at this time and honestly I'm not a whole fan of the law additions and changes being IC

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1 hour ago, Kane said:

 

No plans for that at this time and honestly I'm not a whole fan of the law additions and changes being IC

What's the issue with the additions and changes being done IC? It's definitely more immersive than them suddenly being added by management OOC. Not having an IC avenue for law changes gives no power to players to change anything IC. I can't think of any times where adding/changing was negative on SAMP. There's checks and balances to prevent anything silly from being passed without oversight IC/OOC.

 

Additional questions - 1) are you guys writing the state constitution as well? 2) Are there going to be set parts of the US Constitution used, like before? 3) Are there going to be any supreme court cases allowed to be used on the server? We had a set list on SAMP and they came in handy 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Fiendfyre said:

Additional questions - 1) are you guys writing the state constitution as well? 2) Are there going to be set parts of the US Constitution used, like before? 3) Are there going to be any supreme court cases allowed to be used on the server? We had a set list on SAMP and they came in handy 

State Constitution isn't being written by myself or Kane at this current time but that could be something we look into in the near future.

 

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4 hours ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Why though? It worked pretty well on the SAMP LSRP except for the HOLF shooting down nearly 50% of legislation due to their own agenda. 

Was that Flemwad or Toretto? I know some got shot down because they were poorly written and rushed through but yeah 

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21 hours ago, kendrick said:

State Constitution isn't being written by myself or Kane at this current time but that could be something we look into in the near future.

 

It’s something that’s vital to the foundation of the entire workings of the state, IC. Without it, rights aren’t laid out - heck, neither are the jurisdictions for PD/SD or powers any legal faction has. 

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On 1/6/2022 at 6:09 PM, Fiendfyre said:

I look forward to seeing it. 

 

Is there going to be a Senate to add/change laws IC as time goes on? 

We're not going with a state-level legislature on launch, a municipal one is our current goal. As for a State Constitution - will probably be introduced at a later point, I'm currently working on city-level documents such as the City Charter.

 

The State Senate is something we discussed and decided to NPC for now (by limiting it to a small group of individuals - faction leaders + management), it was a scene which always lacked roleplayers and it was often an issue to get things in motion, having a functioning city council is a good start imo. The way to introduce state-wide legislation will probably be through IC city bills which endorse specific issues, which then can be roleplayed as introduced and passed in the State Senate.

MAYOR TIMOTHY KNIGHT

LSGOV DISCORD

LSGOV FORUMS

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On 1/7/2022 at 1:19 PM, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Why though? It worked pretty well on the SAMP LSRP except for the HOLF shooting down nearly 50% of legislation due to their own agenda. 

 

image.png

 

I wouldn't say it worked well. Since the 2018 penal code update, there were 3 changes to it by the State Senate. We found a lot to change and some flaws while reviewing it to rewrite so I can't even say it's because there was nothing to do.

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5 hours ago, Kane said:

 

image.png

 

I wouldn't say it worked well. Since the 2018 penal code update, there were 3 changes to it by the State Senate. We found a lot to change and some flaws while reviewing it to rewrite so I can't even say it's because there was nothing to do.

Look at laws and acts passed too though - not just the penal code amendments. There were a lot of issues with how Senate was ran - lack of activity was one issue, but over management caused a lot of the disinterest unfortunately.

 

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7 hours ago, Maxim said:

We're not going with a state-level legislature on launch, a municipal one is our current goal. As for a State Constitution - will probably be introduced at a later point, I'm currently working on city-level documents such as the City Charter.

 

The State Senate is something we discussed and decided to NPC for now (by limiting it to a small group of individuals - faction leaders + management), it was a scene which always lacked roleplayers and it was often an issue to get things in motion, having a functioning city council is a good start imo. The way to introduce state-wide legislation will probably be through IC city bills which endorse specific issues, which then can be roleplayed as introduced and passed in the State Senate.

So if no state constitution at launch - no legal documentation outlining the jurisdictions and powers of any legal factions? It’d be pretty simple to copy the old one and amend anything needed - it was well written iirc and the parts not currently being used can easily be omitted

 

With state senate - what's the basic process for someone to bring forward a law proposal IC? And will faction leaders follow that or will their suggestions just go ooc direct to the private group? Additionally - will insight be sought from other sources (ie faction team) or just those in the group? 

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On 1/10/2022 at 6:12 AM, Fiendfyre said:

So if no state constitution at launch - no legal documentation outlining the jurisdictions and powers of any legal factions? It’d be pretty simple to copy the old one and amend anything needed - it was well written iirc and the parts not currently being used can easily be omitted

 

With state senate - what's the basic process for someone to bring forward a law proposal IC? And will faction leaders follow that or will their suggestions just go ooc direct to the private group? Additionally - will insight be sought from other sources (ie faction team) or just those in the group? 

It'll probably be introduced prior to the server's launch, a lot of government-related documents need a huge overhaul either because they fit the SAMP universe or because they were changed and pretty much obliterated to benefit certain groups/individuals/interests, and the amount of people who work on reforming those documents is very limited at the moment. We did adopt some of the Acts which were written during the SAMP era, and some are going to be re-introduced with changes that fit the new setting.

 

As for the Senate - the plan right now is to have the city council forward endorsement bills, which can then be forwarded to the Senate behind the scenes as actual legislation. The Council members express their view and the Senate adopts it, making it a state law. We haven't discussed legislative procedures in depth yet, so I can't really answer the other questions.

MAYOR TIMOTHY KNIGHT

LSGOV DISCORD

LSGOV FORUMS

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On 1/10/2022 at 12:25 AM, Kane said:

 

image.png

 

I wouldn't say it worked well. Since the 2018 penal code update, there were 3 changes to it by the State Senate. We found a lot to change and some flaws while reviewing it to rewrite so I can't even say it's because there was nothing to do.

I suppose that's slightly out of context man. Also, as far as I know the PC changelog thread wasn't actively updated cause I myself have pushed at least 2 penal code additions/changes in 2020. While I can absolutely agree that the legal faction team might wanna "gatekeep" the state constitution and penal code for the sake of balance, I still stand by my opinion that state legislature is simply necessary in order to make the legal roleplay more appealing. At the end of the day, LSRP never had a very strong legal focus, and I believe that a new server also opens more possibilities to open up for that kind of roleplay. 

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39 minutes ago, Maxim said:

It'll probably be introduced prior to the server's launch, a lot of government-related documents need a huge overhaul either because they fit the SAMP universe or because they were changed and pretty much obliterated to benefit certain groups/individuals/interests, and the amount of people who work on reforming those documents is very limited at the moment. We did adopt some of the Acts which were written during the SAMP era, and some are going to be re-introduced with changes that fit the new setting.

 

As for the Senate - the plan right now is to have the city council forward endorsement bills, which can then be forwarded to the Senate behind the scenes as actual legislation. The Council members express their view and the Senate adopts it, making it a state law. We haven't discussed legislative procedures in depth yet, so I can't really answer the other questions.

City/county legislative has absolutely no say on state legislative tho. It's all about lobbying at the end of the day, but it's not often that you see city officials actively liasing with state legislative. Makes no sense to rp it as such. I'd much rather see both LSGOV and SAGOV as two separate entities, with both being fully functional from the very get-go. While the city govt. has the authority to impose their own city statutes, the latter has the authority to implement actual laws and PC changes. 

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7 hours ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

City/county legislative has absolutely no say on state legislative tho. It's all about lobbying at the end of the day, but it's not often that you see city officials actively liasing with state legislative. Makes no sense to rp it as such. I'd much rather see both LSGOV and SAGOV as two separate entities, with both being fully functional from the very get-go. While the city govt. has the authority to impose their own city statutes, the latter has the authority to implement actual laws and PC changes. 

They don't have a say, I didn't mean city legislators are going to forward state-level legislation. The City Council endorses legislation which can then be adopted by the State Senate as their own piece of legislation, this is to promote legislation on a state-level as the Senate is not going to include any actual legislators for now. Maintaining both LSGOV and SAGOV is not viable as of now as we simply don't have the manpower for it. I'd love to field both LSGOV and SAGOV as well, don't get me wrong - but it's just not an option right now.

MAYOR TIMOTHY KNIGHT

LSGOV DISCORD

LSGOV FORUMS

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1 hour ago, Maxim said:

They don't have a say, I didn't mean city legislators are going to forward state-level legislation. The City Council endorses legislation which can then be adopted by the State Senate as their own piece of legislation, this is to promote legislation on a state-level as the Senate is not going to include any actual legislators for now. Maintaining both LSGOV and SAGOV is not viable as of now as we simply don't have the manpower for it. I'd love to field both LSGOV and SAGOV as well, don't get me wrong - but it's just not an option right now.

Seems like you're pulling this out of nowhere honestly. Did you run a community poll or something? I'm not sure how can you possibly say that something isn't feasible, without doing as much as at least gauging the interest within the community. And don't get me wrong I'm not saying all of this to get at anybody, no. I'm thinking about it in a realistic perspective which means a huge influx of legal roleplayers from another community, which has to be somewhat accounted for as well.

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9 hours ago, i dont wanna od in LA said:

Seems like you're pulling this out of nowhere honestly. Did you run a community poll or something? I'm not sure how can you possibly say that something isn't feasible, without doing as much as at least gauging the interest within the community. And don't get me wrong I'm not saying all of this to get at anybody, no. I'm thinking about it in a realistic perspective which means a huge influx of legal roleplayers from another community, which has to be somewhat accounted for as well.

I'm pulling this from past experiences and from discussions I had with other players and with server management, who have the consensus that the focus should be on LSGOV for the time being - which I agree with. Even that "another community" had issues with their government, from inactive Senators to an LSGOV who as far as I know had a problem with activity as well. Not to mention their attempt of fielding both LSGOV and SAGOV was challenged by the server management over there due to its effectiveness. Interest is a tricky thing, we had interest on SAMP as well, but it didn't mean people were interested in roleplaying with the government - they were just supportive of the concept.

 

I did propose an IC Senate initially but as I said the idea was cast aside for the time being. I don't mind bringing it up again and seeing if it's possible, but we definitely won't have a fully functioning SAGOV for now.

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It's better to focus on having a single layer of government and maintaining the three institutions it relies on to achieve the checks and balances than try to support single institutions of different levels of government. 

 

The city and state governments are the same things but abstracted differently. Choosing which layer to use should primarily revolve around the setting of the roleplay environment. Since the map revolves around a single city and a single county, it's best to go with a city/county government. 

 

I understand in many cases; some laws would realistically be state laws and not city laws. However, if we're going through the trouble of maintaining elections and a player-based legislature, they should have a say over all laws imposed on the players. 

 

An easy way to deal with this is to say that the NPC senate would automatically accept the city council's resolution expressing change to state law. The governor's signature would be management's approval since the penal code often has OOC implications which affects the illegal community; therefore, it's best for management to look at anything changing it. I think this is what @Maximis saying above. 

 

I can't stress enough what a waste of time and unnecessary OOC drama we had to go through in the "other community" due to having two layers of government. It's much more efficient to just work on one layer of government and leave it at that. 

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9 hours ago, vrb said:

It's better to focus on having a single layer of government and maintaining the three institutions it relies on to achieve the checks and balances than try to support single institutions of different levels of government. 

 

The city and state governments are the same things but abstracted differently. Choosing which layer to use should primarily revolve around the setting of the roleplay environment. Since the map revolves around a single city and a single county, it's best to go with a city/county government. 

 

I understand in many cases; some laws would realistically be state laws and not city laws. However, if we're going through the trouble of maintaining elections and a player-based legislature, they should have a say over all laws imposed on the players. 

 

An easy way to deal with this is to say that the NPC senate would automatically accept the city council's resolution expressing change to state law. The governor's signature would be management's approval since the penal code often has OOC implications which affects the illegal community; therefore, it's best for management to look at anything changing it. I think this is what @Maximis saying above. 

 

I can't stress enough what a waste of time and unnecessary OOC drama we had to go through in the "other community" due to having two layers of government. It's much more efficient to just work on one layer of government and leave it at that. 

+1. Government was always an inactive faction and dividing it into two layers will cause even more frustration and less activity.  We can always NPC some  things. 

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The reason the state government was adopted was to remove the layers and realistically give control to the players.  When you focus on a City government as the sole government, you fail to account for the areas outside of the city, which would not be realistically impacted by the passage of legislation at the city level.  By going to a sole city government player controlled, you remove the realistic sense of player control by saying everything passed by the city is law throughout the state and outside of the city (unrealistic) or you remove the ability for the players to pass law by creating an OOC automatic passage of city laws.

 

The reason we moved to a state government was to realistically address these issues.  I'm not against the City aspect however, but I think it creates an OOC avenue of issues that need to be addressed in that sphere.  It becomes even less realistic when it gets vetoed on a state level as there is no way to really challenge it as a city legislator. 

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I personally enjoyed some of the earlier iterations of government systems because it was more simple. I know there were quite a few folks who were really into it a few years later with the senate and what-not too, though I'll admit it just got a bit much for me to keep up with so I just sort of stopped reading. 

 

So tl;dr I think this is on the right track and I support, and am looking forward to what you come up with. Also know that you've been there, done that and worn the t-shirt so you'll know the kinda things to think about. Further thoughts below, since it sounds like things are still in early stages: 

 

  • Make the decision early on regarding how much "say" the Government has in the operation of other factions, obvs thinking law enforcement and fire department as the main ones. If it's to be a lot, then due care needs to go into who in the Government that particular responsibility stops with. I know this is why there was always some level of admin involvement in the form of a Governor for certain things, since IC decisions could heavily impact OOC enjoyment of the game. I'll use the example of the time when a Mayor tried to fire a Chief of Police, which would have caused untold chaos if nobody intervened. 
  • If there's to be elections, I think make the terms long. We saw time and time again that regular new leadership basically meant an entirely new faction, which was unstable and chaotic. I know that the city manager position and the separation of departments / the mayor's office tried to combat this, and I'm not sure how successful that was (perhaps others who were around after me could elaborate 'cause that would be interesting to know). A constantly changing leader figure is also very fatiguing for everyone. 
  • Remember it's still a game. I think that in the past, and in certain "other communities", it just went too far down the lines of being a bureaucratic, boring mess. Some people love doing paperwork and are fine with seeing their online lives as a second job, but I don't personally think that's sustainable. There are some paperworky things that you'll never get away from needing, but I think the focus should be on the roleplay and the experience far more than the function. I know not everyone will agree with that, but I'd rather have an active and stable government faction which stays that way because the players enjoy playing their characters, rather than one which just seems to manage a myriad of processes on the forums. I'm not saying make the government useless, but just make it interesting! Then we may actually have people who stick around.
  • If there's to be competition, or party systems, be careful of players getting too hyper about winning. Easier said than done I know, but I just think it's important to encourage people to enjoy the game and the stories rather than getting so involved and bothered about whether they'll "win". And yesss I know this also feeds into the wider problem of some folks having a problem with losing in general, I just know from experience that too much competition and things can get really nasty and stressful on an OOC level. 
  • Stay fluid. You're in the fortunate position at the moment where nothing is set in stone and you can just sorta sit back and watch everyone's thoughts. People do have their own prerogatives for getting involved in Gov factions though; some people enjoy the creation and passing of legislation, some people enjoy having powerful characters, some people enjoy the in-game roleplay, some people see it as a popularity contest then disappear, some people enjoy the forum paperwork... basically just take opinions in context where you can. Creating a government which has function and purpose but is still fun to be part of in the game should be the direction, I reckon. 

 

It's been a very long time since I roleplayed in Government on any server now, so I know that things have no doubt come a long way since the 2012 era. I'd be eager to hear more about what happened and whether certain things worked or not, purely 'cause I'm nosy and nostalgic. Also I ain't gonna pretend my opinions are the  magic bullet here, far from it, just my two penneth from what I've seen before! 

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Decided to dip, at least for a bit. Reasoning and shit is here.

Good luck!

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On 1/25/2022 at 9:23 PM, Allegra said:

I personally enjoyed some of the earlier iterations of government systems because it was more simple. I know there were quite a few folks who were really into it a few years later with the senate and what-not too, though I'll admit it just got a bit much for me to keep up with so I just sort of stopped reading. 

 

So tl;dr I think this is on the right track and I support, and am looking forward to what you come up with. Also know that you've been there, done that and worn the t-shirt so you'll know the kinda things to think about. Further thoughts below, since it sounds like things are still in early stages: 

 

  • Make the decision early on regarding how much "say" the Government has in the operation of other factions, obvs thinking law enforcement and fire department as the main ones. If it's to be a lot, then due care needs to go into who in the Government that particular responsibility stops with. I know this is why there was always some level of admin involvement in the form of a Governor for certain things, since IC decisions could heavily impact OOC enjoyment of the game. I'll use the example of the time when a Mayor tried to fire a Chief of Police, which would have caused untold chaos if nobody intervened. 
  • If there's to be elections, I think make the terms long. We saw time and time again that regular new leadership basically meant an entirely new faction, which was unstable and chaotic. I know that the city manager position and the separation of departments / the mayor's office tried to combat this, and I'm not sure how successful that was (perhaps others who were around after me could elaborate 'cause that would be interesting to know). A constantly changing leader figure is also very fatiguing for everyone. 
  • Remember it's still a game. I think that in the past, and in certain "other communities", it just went too far down the lines of being a bureaucratic, boring mess. Some people love doing paperwork and are fine with seeing their online lives as a second job, but I don't personally think that's sustainable. There are some paperworky things that you'll never get away from needing, but I think the focus should be on the roleplay and the experience far more than the function. I know not everyone will agree with that, but I'd rather have an active and stable government faction which stays that way because the players enjoy playing their characters, rather than one which just seems to manage a myriad of processes on the forums. I'm not saying make the government useless, but just make it interesting! Then we may actually have people who stick around.
  • If there's to be competition, or party systems, be careful of players getting too hyper about winning. Easier said than done I know, but I just think it's important to encourage people to enjoy the game and the stories rather than getting so involved and bothered about whether they'll "win". And yesss I know this also feeds into the wider problem of some folks having a problem with losing in general, I just know from experience that too much competition and things can get really nasty and stressful on an OOC level. 
  • Stay fluid. You're in the fortunate position at the moment where nothing is set in stone and you can just sorta sit back and watch everyone's thoughts. People do have their own prerogatives for getting involved in Gov factions though; some people enjoy the creation and passing of legislation, some people enjoy having powerful characters, some people enjoy the in-game roleplay, some people see it as a popularity contest then disappear, some people enjoy the forum paperwork... basically just take opinions in context where you can. Creating a government which has function and purpose but is still fun to be part of in the game should be the direction, I reckon. 

 

It's been a very long time since I roleplayed in Government on any server now, so I know that things have no doubt come a long way since the 2012 era. I'd be eager to hear more about what happened and whether certain things worked or not, purely 'cause I'm nosy and nostalgic. Also I ain't gonna pretend my opinions are the  magic bullet here, far from it, just my two penneth from what I've seen before! 

 

I was a Senior Licensing Official under different Mayors, so I can put a word or two to answer your questions.  

 

When Mayor was changing, they were not discharging directors of Bureaus and Departments, if they did their job well. Basically, these departments/bureaus were like sub-factions in a faction. However, Mayor's office still used to take a huge part in developing them. 

 

Paper work became headache in the government. Imagine, I had to  forum PM all registered businesses (RP'd as an e-mail) and ask them, if their business was still operating. Also, there were pointless duties  like collecting monthly license fees that used to make us spend unnecessary time on forums, filling pointless information. It was not role-played well and it did not bring anything to the table for the  server.  Another duty of a licensing official was to ask businesses register on forums and obtain necessary licenses. To be honest, application form was not hard or time consuming.  Business owners had to fill basic information , then they had an inspection and the business was fine to open. However, it caused lots of drama. Many criminals tried to insult or attack licensing officials, then these licensing officials used to pay back by locking their places up or having constant investigations over their premises. It used to turn into OOC  hassle and many criminals with P2W attitude were mad at the BoL, because they couldn't bully the government.  Of course, there were lots of bad Licensing Officials as well whose role-play was unrealistic and the Bureau did not have motivation to fire them, because there wasn't anyone else to do all those forum works.  Anyway, we were trying to develop and actually we had lots of improvements under Susan Litcher's  and Bloodseeker's leadership.    Then admins decided to make a new government that would be more professional and would not make people hate the Bureau of Licensing. So, there was a revamp, they fired all of us and messed up the faction which we we had built step by step during 2013 - 2016.   They did not ask for suggestions, they did not listen to us and made a new government that should work, but guess.... It did not. They made new business registration forms to look more professional, increased bureaucracy, increased fines, increased licensing fees and of course it did not work and it caused even more drama (more corruption, more lethal decisions, more OOC hassle e.t.c) . So they had one more revamp and they created a State Government.  They were role-playing like politicians and had a different style. Yes, they had a good role-play, but it was not followed by the server.  They did not interact with others, they had a circle and they were operating in this bubble. They did not bring anything to the table for the rest of the server.  I know that many people won't agree with me, especially those who were in this State Government. 

 

Furthermore, there was a second problem. Basically, the government suffered from inactivity.  I was always advocating for less bureaucracy, more transparency and in game activity, but high ranks were always trying to make everything complicated. I think that in new government we must try to have everything balanced. I agree with you that people don't join  this server to spend hours of their game-play on forums.  I hope that modern government will be less strict to players, will actually work on events and useful projects. Also, I hope that new Bureau of Licensing will be taken seriously, this faction needs modifications and they can turn it into a LEA like faction that will be professional, will have strict rules for its members and  more transparency for the community. 

Edited by dzgapaan
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26 minutes ago, dzgapaan said:

 

I was a Senior Licensing Official under different Mayors, so I can put a word or two to answer your questions.  

 

When Mayor was changing, they were not discharging directors of Bureaus and Departments, if they did their job well. Basically, these departments/bureaus were like sub-factions in a faction. However, Mayor's office still used to take a huge part in developing them. 

 

Paper work became headache in the government. Imagine, I had to  forum PM all registered businesses (RP'd as an e-mail) and ask them, if their business was still operating. Also, there were pointless duties  like collecting monthly license fees that used to make us spend unnecessary time on forums, filling pointless information. It was not role-played well and it did not bring anything to the table for the  server.  Another duty of a licensing official was to ask businesses register on forums and obtain necessary licenses. To be honest, application form was not hard or time consuming.  Business owners had to fill basic information , then they had an inspection and the business was fine to open. However, it caused lots of drama. Many criminals tried to insult or attack licensing officials, then these licensing officials used to pay back by locking their places up or having constant investigations over their premises. It used to turn into OOC  hassle and many criminals with P2W attitude were mad at the BoL, because they couldn't bully the government.  Of course, there were lots of bad Licensing Officials as well whose role-play was unrealistic and the Bureau did not have motivation to fire them, because there wasn't anyone else to do all those forum works.  Anyway, we were trying to develop and actually we had lots of improvements under Susan Litcher's  and Bloodseeker's leadership.    Then admins decided to make a new government that would be more professional and would not make people hate the Bureau of Licensing. So, there was a revamp, they fired all of us and messed up the faction which we we had built step by step during 2013 - 2016.   They did not ask for suggestions, they did not listen to us and made a new government that should work, but guess.... It did not. They made new business registration forms to look more professional, increased bureaucracy, increased fines, increased licensing fees and of course it did not work and it caused even more drama (more corruption, more lethal decisions, more OOC hassle e.t.c) . So they had one more revamp and they created a State Government.  They were role-playing like politicians and had a different style. Yes, they had a good role-play, but it was not followed by the server.  They did not interact with others, they had a circle and they were operating in this bubble. They did not bring anything to the table for the rest of the server.  I know that many people won't agree with me, especially those who were in this State Government. 

 

Furthermore, there was a second problem. Basically, the government suffered from inactivity.  I was always advocating for less bureaucracy, more transparency and in game activity, but high ranks were always trying to make everything complicated. I think that in new government we must try to have everything balanced. I agree with you that people don't join  this server to spend hours of their game-play on forums.  I hope that modern government will be less strict to players, will actually work on events and useful projects. Also, I hope that new Bureau of Licensing will be taken seriously, this faction needs modifications and they can turn it into a LEA like faction that will be professional, will have strict rules for its members and  more transparency for the community. 

I certainly believe that even licensing has a pretty huge potential in terms of creating roleplay. It should be more focused on actually going IG and roleplaying rather than sitting on the forums and filling out forms. You're generally not wrong, I just disagree about the part of reducing the downtime in govt roleplay. I feel like the downtime and the slower pace of it is quite the essential part of it. Turning bureau of licensing into law enforcement doesn't make sense imo. 

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