What do you want to see out of the Los Santos Police Department?

[Doug Dimmadome]

3 hours ago, F0r3v3r said:

Calling in for backup is CRUCIAL as if you go down [...]

But doing so while getting shot is powergaming. You don't respond to getting shot by reaching for your radio to make a last effort callout to dispatch, so your friends can gather up in A-TAC and respond to your location. Unless of course you have been shot and the suspect fled the scene; whilst you managed to escape at the glimpse of bleeding out, which in itself, according to faction members, is against the rules because VOIP is limited to shots fired or pursuits.

 

3 hours ago, F0r3v3r said:

You'll get help faster, you'll end up in the hospital faster and you'll STAY ALIVE.

We're on a hardcore roleplay server and not a police chase server with roleplay elements. Sometimes you die, so respawn?

[La Tweaker]

On 12/27/2021 at 9:45 PM, F0r3v3r said:

Has this ever limited illegal role-players from using VoIP? Absolutely not. There're groups in factions that literally use a 2nd discord so they don't MG on the main one observed by Faction Management or they just use a regular group call in discord. It's not like we can change it because half of the people play legit, because if that was the case, the other half would still abuse VoIP to their liking. If it's the case that a member of the PD uses the VoIP as an unfair advantange, hence calling out shootouts whilst dead, screaming or being toxic over VoIP, not being reasonable etc, they will be punished, but you need to understand that in a shootout, you can not type out "Shots fired, Vespucci" or something, because your CALLOUTS need to be more precise and using just the general name of the location is never enough, because it  ends up with units having to circle Vespucci to find the shooting and in that time, it's quite certain the criminals have already rushed and killed the cop. It's a bad idea to remove VoIP from the police, because that's basically the only thing that makes us unique in that way. Communication is key in real life as well. Even if the criminals are smart enough to use radios, most of them do not because the radio lines are trackable and can be listened to, which sadly we do not have the access to in this video game.

You make some good points, though I still disagree. It's against the rules for criminal RPers to use voice chat, and imo it should be, but it should also be the same for LEO RPers.

 

Yes, the leaders of LEO factions say that they heavily moderate VOIP, but all I've seen is the opposite in my several years of playing, so I'm sure you can understand my scepticism.

 

I've observed LEO RPers actively calling for backup while literally standing in the middle of the street shooting at somebody, which shouldn't be considered cool in my opinion, I was even in a situation some time ago where an officer that was shot down continued calling for backup even after he was death screened, the only reason I found out that he was doing so was because he recorded it and reported me for whatever reason, which is why I'm sceptical when I'm told that VOIP is heavily moderated. It's easy to say that it's heavily moderated, but it's hard to really prove that.

 

On 12/28/2021 at 2:14 AM, True Neutral said:

You compare apples to pears. PD or SD are government agencies that have many gadgets like headset radios or bodycams which makes sense to use VOIP. Escaping PD should be hard. 

Police aren't supermen, even if they have 'gadgets' at their disposal. If you're actively being fired at by multiple thugs, you're likely gonna be in a state of panic, I doubt you'd be able to reach for your radio and calmly broadcast your location all while shooting back and reversing your car in the process, your aim is gonna be staying alive and not catching a bullet to the forehead.

 

 

[F0r3v3r]

5 hours ago, Doug Dimmadome said:

But doing so while getting shot is powergaming. You don't respond to getting shot by reaching for your radio to make a last effort callout to dispatch, so your friends can gather up in A-TAC and respond to your location. Unless of course you have been shot and the suspect fled the scene; whilst you managed to escape at the glimpse of bleeding out, which in itself, according to faction members, is against the rules because VOIP is limited to shots fired or pursuits.

 

We're on a hardcore roleplay server and not a police chase server with roleplay elements. Sometimes you die, so respawn?

Exactly. VoIP itself is only USED when you're in a pursuit, a shots fired situation or a tactical situation (hence hostage situations, swat breaches etcetera). I agree, it's weird to call for backup whilst taking shots at you, but knowing you can just press the button on your shoulder mounted radio, with one hand and use your vehicle as a cover, it's reasonable. You can never do much in this situation alone. You're NOT allowed to use VoIP to call backup if the suspect fled the scene. You set up your radio broadcast and get people out there. IF you had visual on the person and airship is close-by, you can transmit it to call in for the airship to get visual and then continue the pursuit from there on.

 

It doesn't make sense that we're in a hardcore RP server and "sometimes you die, just respawn". Do you respawn in real life? That's sort of what the server is trying to show.

 

5 hours ago, La Tweaker said:

You make some good points, though I still disagree. It's against the rules for criminal RPers to use voice chat, and imo it should be, but it should also be the same for LEO RPers.

 

Yes, the leaders of LEO factions say that they heavily moderate VOIP, but all I've seen is the opposite in my several years of playing, so I'm sure you can understand my scepticism.

 

I've observed LEO RPers actively calling for backup while literally standing in the middle of the street shooting at somebody, which shouldn't be considered cool in my opinion, I was even in a situation some time ago where an officer that was shot down continued calling for backup even after he was death screened, the only reason I found out that he was doing so was because he recorded it and reported me for whatever reason, which is why I'm sceptical when I'm told that VOIP is heavily moderated. It's easy to say that it's heavily moderated, but it's hard to really prove that.

 

Police aren't supermen, even if they have 'gadgets' at their disposal. If you're actively being fired at by multiple thugs, you're likely gonna be in a state of panic, I doubt you'd be able to reach for your radio and calmly broadcast your location all while shooting back and reversing your car in the process, your aim is gonna be staying alive and not catching a bullet to the forehead.

 

 

 

Yes, it's against the rules, but tell me is everyone really abiding by that rule? No.

 

Leaders, supervisors and occasionally regular members moderate the usage of VoIP. If someone is transmitting unnecessary information over the TAC channel, such as "going for spikes" or something as such, they're told to direct it to the radio channels, not over the TAC channel, as it disrupts the radio traffic for the pursuing unit updating. 

 

If an officer does call for backup in middle of the street, with no actual cover whilst shooting their gun, report them. With enough evidence they'll receive punishments for powergame. Cops ARE equal to players in terms of that, even if they tend to have certain things that make their job easier from the POV of the game. If you were in that situation and the cop reported you, use THEIR OWN video against them. Report them to IA OOCly or faction leadership, depending on severity and the rank of the officer and you'll receive a response back. If they're transmitting whilst they're dead, that's considered Metagame and Powergame and will be handled, I can assure you. If you stand there with your hands up not getting involved, you won't see results. I assume there were no staff members, supervisors w/e in the situation, therefore, some members might not "snitch" on their own, but it's what you can do with the right evidence. (Think about it. If you catch your friend or faction member breaching any rule that is not SEEN by anyone else. DO you report it?)

 

I can assure you there's literally bare officers who can do it calmly. Shooting in a video game is stressful and the stress reflects on your character if you are stressed IRL. A unexpected ambush and you'll be shouting over the TAC channel because you're panicking. You do not just "calmly" broadcast your location, if you're in immediate need of assistance, you technically are not mourned upon for saying it out a bit faster, louder or whatever. It's never punished, but it tends to get help faster, as you are in a shootout situation. What you usually broadcast in that situation is your callsign, the LOCATION (street name if applicable, use your surroundings as a hint, whatever else you can do) and officer in danger. I don't know who did this to you, but in SAMP it's almost impossible to shoot and reverse at the same time, because you literally can not shoot from a car. If something like this happened in another GTA V server, please don't put it on us. It's their own thing and report them for doing so. If this ever happens in LS-RP V, when a officer shoots and drives his car, please report them. That's your best course of action as that's power-gaming. 

 

And yeah, police are not super-human. If you witness super-human actions by a cop, PLEASE do your best to report them. These people will receive punishments, be it IC or OOC. You can't be corrupt without valid permissions either, so think about that when you witness a cop being blatantly corrupt. Thank you!

[La Tweaker]

4 minutes ago, F0r3v3r said:

Yes, it's against the rules, but tell me is everyone really abiding by that rule? No.

of course not, in samp's final days, everyone was using VOIP, which carried over to other RP servers aswell unfortunately, anyone who says they never used VOIP and MGed is lying, if I'm being honest with you.

 

6 minutes ago, F0r3v3r said:

Leaders, supervisors and occasionally regular members moderate the usage of VoIP. If someone is transmitting unnecessary information over the TAC channel, such as "going for spikes" or something as such, they're told to direct it to the radio channels, not over the TAC channel, as it disrupts the radio traffic for the pursuing unit updating.

Interesting, I didn't know this, so that's a good thing to know.

 

7 minutes ago, F0r3v3r said:

If an officer does call for backup in middle of the street, with no actual cover whilst shooting their gun, report them. With enough evidence they'll receive punishments for powergame. Cops ARE equal to players in terms of that, even if they tend to have certain things that make their job easier from the POV of the game. If you were in that situation and the cop reported you, use THEIR OWN video against them. Report them to IA OOCly or faction leadership, depending on severity and the rank of the officer and you'll receive a response back. If they're transmitting whilst they're dead, that's considered Metagame and Powergame and will be handled, I can assure you. If you stand there with your hands up not getting involved, you won't see results.

Yeah, I would've reported it at the time, but at that point I was fairly certain that such actions were acceptable, whether or not I was wrong at the time, it's mainly that situation that causes me to dislike the use of VOIP by LEO's, it just seems unfair as hell to me, maybe that's because I haven't actually played as a LEO, so idk how important it really is, just always been something that strikes me as unfair.

 

10 minutes ago, F0r3v3r said:

I assume there were no staff members, supervisors w/e in the situation, therefore, some members might not "snitch" on their own, but it's what you can do with the right evidence. (Think about it. If you catch your friend or faction member breaching any rule that is not SEEN by anyone else. DO you report it?)

Yeah, I assume there wasn't either, or it was during a time where VOIP wasn't as heavily regulated as it's said to be now. I'm not really even 100% sure when the situation I'm referring to happened, it was just something I remembered vividly and decided to bring up. I dunno if I ever even reported the dude to his superiors, perhaps I should've at the time.

 

And yeah, you make a valid point.

 

12 minutes ago, F0r3v3r said:

I don't know who did this to you, but in SAMP it's almost impossible to shoot and reverse at the same time, because you literally can not shoot from a car. If something like this happened in another GTA V server, please don't put it on us. It's their own thing and report them for doing so. If this ever happens in LS-RP V, when a officer shoots and drives his car, please report them. That's your best course of action as that's power-gaming. 

Yeah don't worry I'm not putting that on you blokes, it's mainly just a hypothetical situation that may or may not happen at some point as a way to point out how shit can be abused at some points. The main problem I have is that it's extremely hard for civilian and legal RPers to prove that a cop powergamed/mged with VOIP and usually (atleast in my eyes) if the supervisor happens to miss what happens, it's likely gonna be one of those 'too bad, just move on' type scenarios. For example, in the first situation I mentioned, I would've had no clue that the dude was still talking in VC with his boys and telling them where to find me whilst dead if he hadn't reported me and posted a video. For the hypothetical situation, if a cop were to do that, all we'd really be able to do is report them for reversing and shooting at the same time, we'd have no clue he MGed on voip.

 

18 minutes ago, F0r3v3r said:

And yeah, police are not super-human. If you witness super-human actions by a cop, PLEASE do your best to report them. These people will receive punishments, be it IC or OOC. You can't be corrupt without valid permissions either, so think about that when you witness a cop being blatantly corrupt. Thank you!

Yeah, I always do my best to report these things, and thankfully as far as LSRP goes at least, I haven't actually had to IA or outright report a cop in some time for that kind of portrayal cause it's happening less and less, I hope that continues to be the trend when LSRPV comes out tbh.

[Doug Dimmadome]

3 hours ago, F0r3v3r said:

If an officer does call for backup in middle of the street, with no actual cover whilst shooting their gun, report them.

But how am I supposed to when the roleplay is done through a private and inaccessible channel on another platform?

[MissGTA]

You’re all talking about reporting but do you realize how hard it is to prove metagaming ?

There are lot of people who record all the time while playing, but there are also a lot who cant do this because of their computer. 
You can’t just allow anything and everything then tell people who fear misuse to "just report it"

It’s like allowing all players access to LSPD weapons then saying "it’s forbidden for players to use LSPD weapon, report anyone doing so" 

 

Clearly no one wants to recognize that this rule (voice chat allowed for LSPD/SD, but not for other factions) is unfair, advantageous for some and disadvantageous for others. 
Give me one reason to justify why LSPD/SD deserves this advantage and not others. 
ICly voice chat est justified for both, as now in 2021 there are phones and wireless devices. So why OOCly only one deserves it??

 

[F0r3v3r]

6 minutes ago, MissGTA said:

You’re all talking about reporting but do you realize how hard it is to prove metagaming ?

There are lot of people who record all the time while playing, but there are also a lot who cant do this because of their computer. 
You can’t just allow anything and everything then tell people who fear misuse to "just report it"

It’s like allowing all players access to LSPD weapons then saying "it’s forbidden for players to use LSPD weapon, report anyone doing so" 

 

Clearly no one wants to recognize that this rule (voice chat allowed for LSPD/SD, but not for other factions) is unfair, advantageous for some and disadvantageous for others. 
Give me one reason to justify why LSPD/SD deserves this advantage and not others. 
ICly voice chat est justified for both, as now in 2021 there are phones and wireless devices. So why OOCly only one deserves it??

 

 

1. Illegal role-players use radio lines, phones, etc that CAN be traced. Though there's no absolute way we as PD can go into someone's discord channel to see what they're talking about even if we tap their phones or "wireless devices" of any sort. What's your fix to that?
 

2. The usage of VoIP can not be monitored like it can be monitored for LSPD/LSSD. There are no staff members (mostly admins) who can dedicate time to go into 50 VoIP channels to avoid unnecessary meta-game over these comms, but there are members of PD who have the authority to punish anyone misusing VoIP for meta-game.

 

3. What would your view be on fourteen year old characters from a gang going around with radios or "discord" on their phone just chatting and killing people? Would it be realistic? Would you want to be a target of a VoIP used hit by an illegal faction? 

 

4. Also, considering you'll probably put an counter argument for number one, Police used radio lines are encrypted and HARD, but not impossible to trace, so if there happens to be something like a police monitor scripted for illegal roleplayers, use it. But there's no way it can be scripted to get VoIP into the game for people to hear it and we can not let people in voice channels just because there's too much things that go through it already. (Maybe there is a way, but @Kane or any other developer can explain you why it would not work with sync etc)

 

5. So, if we allow a CRIMINAL to use radios, what prohibits them from doing exactly what you assume police are doing? Criminals using VoIP will be a much bigger issue, because of the simple fact that if rule-breaking occurs, how can we get the proof of it? That's just putting an counter argument against your own argument in your response. We can not enable VoIP for other factions because it'll simply be impossible to trace it.

 

6. If VoIP is DISABLED for every single faction, what do you think are the chances of EVERY ILLEGAL ROLEPLAYER creating a second discord channel secluded from their main discord channel to meta-game on? I think it's quite high. That gives ILLEGAL role-players another advantage over any LEO faction. We have rules besides the in-game rules of the server to abide to and what does it benefit if you remove LEO faction's only real way to have an edge over illegal role-players (besides all the tactical advantages and all that sort of stuff, which in most cases is just zeroed anyway because criminals use their own methods to level their playing ground in that already)?

 

7. I don't know what exactly you mean by "allowing people to use LSPD weapons" and then saying "Report anyone that uses LSPD weapons." Isn't it already that the criminals CAN have much better firepower than the PD in a long run? PD has extreme rules set for usage of rifles and quite hard rules set for using a shotgun. Criminals DO not have any rules besides the mandatory role-play lines that come with them and THOSE apply to PD as well. What kind of an weapon advantage do you think PD really has that bothers you?

[Benavides]

Comparing usage of VOIP between illegal factions and LEO factions is like comparing day and night, they are not the same for many reasons that have been pointed out.

 

Our faction and LSSD have nerfed themselves continuously to strike balance between illegal factions. Usage of VOIP is the least of your concerns if our factions actually used LAPD/LASD’s equipment in situations (even without VOIP).

 

Each side have their own advantages and disadvantages. For example, you can shoot someone in the middle of the street and get away with it if there’s no players around, regardless if there would be CCTVs, witnesses and an instant 911 call.

 

We do not care about winning situations, VOIP is used to maintain a realistic effectiveness in character. We have done everything possible as a faction to strike a good balance: removal of boxing, heavy restrictions of assault rifles being used (there’s a member cap and you have to apply to have access to a rifle), continuously hold our faction members to a higher standard than everyone else, disallow any ramming or unrealistic vehicle interceptions, restrict the use of the less lethal shotgun, heavily encouraging officers to let small time offenders off, disengage any vehicle pursuit that includes players having a high speed vehicle rather than allowing a wild goose chase in the city, regulate the utilisation of gang injunctions heavily as it kills role-play, disallow faction takedowns, and so on.

 

VOIP was used for everything a few years ago, now it is used during active shooting situations or vehicle pursuits (updating). Our faction supervisors are quick with telling faction members to stop talking, regardless if those people would take it personal or not, as we take this very serious. I have went into detail about moderation a few posts back.

 

It is very easy to spot abuse, if you are aiming at someone and suddenly back up appears without anything being said in character, report it and it will be taken care of. There are logs on TeamSpeak that allow us to see who made a voice backup request globally. Just ensure the report is instant upon conclusion of the situation if there’s no admin response, rather than waiting for the next day.

 

We do not require video evidence for everything, if you send a report we instantly jump on it and investigate it. I assume logs will be easier to access now, so game admins will be contacted if a faction member claims they used the in-game radio when in fact they used TeamSpeak. If a faction member’s story doesn’t add up and they aren’t able to explain themselves properly, we do not hesitate to issue punishments.

 

That being said, I will kindly ask you all to move on from the VOIP discussion. An answer has been given and there is a clear difference of opinion between all parties. You are more than welcome to suggest a removal of VOIP for LEO factions to Server Management.

 

We are interested in hearing any new ideas or suggestions that may benefit the faction and the role-play quality of the server.

[Florida]

Law Enforcement Voice comms is bad. You can ask us to move on but it's straight metagaming. 

 

The only people defending it are career role-play cops who used it to their benefit for years.

[True Neutral]

I'd love to see Blue Knights MC which is a LEMC. Or something similar. 

 

[F0r3v3r]

1 hour ago, True Neutral said:

I'd love to see Blue Knights MC which is a LEMC. Or something similar. 

 

 

This, like any other faction that LSPD members would create on the side would come down to if people were interested in doing so. It's not up to staff or anyone just to create something like this. It's hard to keep track of numerous things, but a good leisure time activity when off the job. Surely could be done if anyone with MC experience would have time to lead it out. I'd love to see it myself, especially with active dedicated members.

[joxii]

4 hours ago, Florida said:

Law Enforcement Voice comms is bad. You can ask us to move on but it's straight metagaming. 

 

The only people defending it are career role-play cops who used it to their benefit for years.

 

As someone who's role played both sides of the spectrum for years, I do agree it's bad (as a general thing) and I've always hated it as I personally feel it ruins immersion. It's a harsh reality that LEO factions do actually need it though, otherwise typing and trying to do things becomes an impossible task and ultimately wouldn't work. 

 

I understand your issue but I reassure you this faction (and SD) have come leaps and bounds to avoid abusing it over the last five years. Internally there are extreme restrictions on when they can use it — we don't live in a perfect world and it can/has been abused in the past and will be in the future, but as long as the faction from an internal standpoint continues to punish those severely who do it, we will make progress.

Edited December 29, 2021 by owen

[Sparkles]

15 hours ago, F0r3v3r said:

 

Leaders, supervisors and occasionally regular members moderate the usage of VoIP. If someone is transmitting unnecessary information over the TAC channel, such as "going for spikes" or something as such, they're told to direct it to the radio channels, not over the TAC channel, as it disrupts the radio traffic for the pursuing unit updating. 

 

. I assume there were no staff members, supervisors w/e in the situation, therefore, some members might not "snitch" on their own, but it's what you can do with the right evidence. (Think about it. If you catch your friend or faction member breaching any rule that is not SEEN by anyone else. DO you report it?)

 

 

To the first paragraph I quoted - that's good to hear, because from what I saw at the start of 2020, and what I was being told and shown videos of during my time away - this was not the case. 

 

To the second paragraph - they should report it, yeah. You can't as a faction claim to be better than in the past but not have members showing integrity - doing what's right when nobody's watching. 

 

 

On another subject - is the stance previously held about live streams going to carry over? Are they going to be reviewed/monitored for faction image and rule following?

[Sparkles]

3 hours ago, F0r3v3r said:

 

This, like any other faction that LSPD members would create on the side would come down to if people were interested in doing so. It's not up to staff or anyone just to create something like this. It's hard to keep track of numerous things, but a good leisure time activity when off the job. Surely could be done if anyone with MC experience would have time to lead it out. I'd love to see it myself, especially with active dedicated members.

There was one briefly some time ago combined of SD/PD members, but it's something someone should come about IC tbh. 

[True Neutral]

14 hours ago, F0r3v3r said:

 

This, like any other faction that LSPD members would create on the side would come down to if people were interested in doing so. It's not up to staff or anyone just to create something like this. It's hard to keep track of numerous things, but a good leisure time activity when off the job. Surely could be done if anyone with MC experience would have time to lead it out. I'd love to see it myself, especially with active dedicated members.

 

I didn't word it right, I made this proposal as a way of saying I'd like to see more off duty roleplay but thank you for pointing some things out. At least when I played, the members only did onduty roleplay.