ROZE
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Posts posted by ROZE
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6 hours ago, 30PiecesOfSilver said:
I agree, that multi years mortgages would really suck. Then again how do you you balance housing market? If rent is 700$ for a house in grove street and 1,000 in Mirror Park, and 450 in Jamestown? I don't understand the rental prices at the current moment. Hopefully housing doesn't follow the renting prices.
After calculating the price of a property, we could divide that price by the average number of years a mortgage is taken out in LA, so that we find out how much a player should pay per year, then just make that per year price the actual full price of the property
I feel though it should be slightly cheaper if buying from the server, so that they're bought up by people for roleplay, the server price shouldn't come into play after the initial sale, as the economy will find the property prices itself for p2p/b2c/b2b sales
This is just brainstorming, nothing final
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I'm going to comment on this as I read so not to miss anything
Regarding your first example:
The minimum down payment on a mortgage is usually 5% rather than 20%, meaning a down payment on a $100,000 house in the ghetto would only be $5,000
Another point to make is static prices won't work, as then there will not be any real estate roleplay. We can get around this by raising the price with inflation but I'd prefer to take a different approach
In your calculation you did it based on paying back in one year like cars, however houses should have much longer pay back times
Regarding your second example:
$250,000 house with 5% down payment would only be $12,500 which would be affordable, then if we scale the weekly payments over a few years, then the price will be fine for legal roleplayers
If we want realistic prices then multi year mortgages are essential and unavoidable. I don't want to go down this route though
Personally I do not agree that buying and selling property shouldn't be allowed an in real life and is actually very common, both by real estate companies and private investment. The way to manage this is by having a properly functioning economy, not by forcing rules, a free market is important
Buying and selling a property for more does not cause inflation, inflation is caused by having new money enter an economy, in real life this happens from import/export, in game this happens from money being added and removed from the server, inflation is inevitable, we will manage it but it will slowly happen over time, without it the poor will get poorer
Introducing a cap is a good idea in an overly inflated economy, so we can ensure new players and poor players can still get properties, however we don't have the issue right now so it's not needed. A natural equilibrium point will be met where the value of the property is decided itself by the state of the economy. If someone is charging too much, no one will buy the property, forcing them to decrease the price. If someone charges too little, someone will buy it and resell it for more, this is how the equilibrium point is found. When you introduce unatural price caps, we inflate people's bank accounts everywhere else
I really like your idea about making structural furniture items free, this actually makes quite a bit of sense, because rply the walls and such would already be there
Although we do not have a set idea yet of how to handle mortgages, this is my initial idea of how it should work:
Properties should have a fixed initial price. We can calculate the prices based on the current state of the economy as we track it, rather than based on real life prices. Our goal is to have a realistic economy, not a 1-1 economy. This price will always be here if the property is not owned, meaning someone can go up and buy it for that price. Once the property is owned, the player can sell it for however much they want to the next player, the initial price is not factored in here at all
Also, moved this to the economics section
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Lmaoooo
Condom!
Would you rather kill the person closest to you, or kill the person closest to them (can't be yourself)
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Hello how are you, I am stuck in the water, out here too much raining brrr
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Reacc
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2 hours ago, 30PiecesOfSilver said:
Yeah those changes are great and will make a good difference, the only thing left I would do if I were you guys was the "Don't pay or we'll take it away" for vehicle loans and future mortgages. Maybe have a system that doesn't allow you to spawn the vehicle until the payments balance is paid. So that way you don't lose the money spent on a car loan or mortgage. Let's say you missed 1 week of payments and you couldn't play that week. Well if you make more money you could be able to just pay the amount due and then avoid losing your vehicle/property because of IRL reasons that forced you not to play that week. But yeah overall it's a great step and I'm happy with these changes. The social check you get is decent enough to allow you to play and rp and still avoid grinding. Good job Roze
Great stuff @30PiecesOfSilver! Glad to hear you've noticed the changes in a positive way
I'm not 100% certain how the script handles you missing a car payment at the moment, I think the car is only removed if you don't pay at all for a good amount of time, but don't quote me on that!
For anyone who may have been following this topic with a similar viewpoint to the OP, we have a section now where you can point out issues with the economy in an official manner, or suggest ideas:
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@30PiecesOfSilver how do you feel about things now since first making this post?
Since then we have incorporated the universal income, more support for businesses, faction scenario schemes etc, are things moving in the right direction?
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Great words to hear! I'm glad you're enjoying the server
Business applications are opening up again shortly, possibly tomorrow
There will be more businesses opening up soon too as we do already have a lot owned by players, they just need furnished mainly, which is taking a while as people get used to the new system
We have incorporated a bonus to mappers who want to help companies map their interiors, so we can get them finished quicker
Thanks for sticking with us despite the initial viewpoint
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4 hours ago, SCANDALOUZ said:
There's literally 30 companies in the works atm. People just ain't setup. Licenses, interiors.
This basically!
When people get a business, they need to pay for licenses, prepare staff, and furnish it - Furnishing it takes the longest and people are getting used to the new system
There are actually quite a lot of businesses, but yeah... They just need to get started
@Dos Santos has been doing a very good job at encouraging people and with apps opening back up hopefully we'll get more too
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We're our own community with a lot of history and dedicated players. Things are getting better, we literally just launched, there's a lot being discussed behind the scenes and a lot being worked on.
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The Overall Vision for the Ecomomy
Given our goal to create an economic system that closely mirrors reality, the following proposal outlines a vision statement that aligns with this goal.
The Vision Statement
"To create an immersive, dynamic, and balanced economy that reflects real-world financial systems, fostering engaging interactions, facilitating meaningful character development, and promoting fair play for all our community members. Our plans aim to ensure minimal inflation and exploitation, rewarding those who put in hard work and ensuring that our server has a strong economy for years to come."The Rationale
In the heart of the LS-RP roleplaying experience is the drive to create an environment that is as realistic and immersive as possible, whilst accepting that this is, of course, still a game. By aligning our economic structure with real-world financial systems, we encourage players to engage in a more profound and authentic way.-
Immersive and Dynamic: A great roleplay economy should be more than just a means to acquire in-game items. It should be a living, breathing entity that ebbs and flows, shaped by the decisions and actions of the players.
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Balanced: We recognize the importance of maintaining an economy that is balanced and fair, one that rewards effort and participation but does not overly penalize failure, misfortune or real life circumstances. The economy should however still encourage players to log in and engage with others as much as possible.
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Reflects Real-World Financial Systems (to a point): The goal is not to directly mimic the complexities and unpredictabilities of a real-world economy, but to at least make it feel like economic decisions and time investment matter, and for players to feel that their characters are part of a genuine, immersive economic ecosystem.
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Engaging Interactions: A well-designed economy should promote interaction, negotiation, and cooperation between players, creating richer narratives and encouraging roleplay innovation for wealth generation. In other words; we believe there should be economic rewards for those who generate high quality roleplay and immersion for the rest of the server.
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Meaningful Character Development: By making economic choices matter, we encourage players to think more deeply about their characters’ motivations, ambitions, and decisions. Just like in the real world, there will be those who are rich and those who are poor - but such statuses shouldn’t affect overall enjoyment of the server.
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Diversity in Wealth: There will be rich, there will be poor, just as there are in real life. However, in order to be rich, players will need to ensure that they provide high quality roleplay to the server, are engaged in a business/career which would earn a high amount of money in the real world, and put the effort in to do this over a sustained period of time. Being “poor” however shouldn’t limit roleplay or feel like an overly limiting factor to enjoyment of the server.
- Circular and free of exploits: LS-RP’s economy will be carefully planned and managed to ensure that we avoid spikes in inflation or unfair exploitation. We want our economy to last; so enough money will be taken out.
Conclusion
By adopting this vision, we lay the groundwork for an economic system that provides our players with a more immersive, engaging, and rewarding roleplay experience. We aim to continually refine and adapt our economic model to ensure it remains reflective of real-world systems (whilst accepting that it is part of a gaming environment) and balanced for all players. This vision serves not only as a guide for our current efforts but also a firm foundation upon which we can build our community’s economy in the future.-
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Immersive and Dynamic: A great roleplay economy should be more than just a means to acquire in-game items. It should be a living, breathing entity that ebbs and flows, shaped by the decisions and actions of the players.
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@Mmartin was considering doing this as a way to begin the second hand car market in LSRP
I imagine it'll still happen with how obvious some sort of system like this is needed
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If you have any concerns regarding the economy in LSRP, be that of an idea, problem, or question with the current system, please reach out to me, @ROZE or @Mikee, and we will address your concern.
When addressing a concern I will do one of the following:
• Create a topic in this section for people to discuss your concern openly, so that the community can decide together what the best solution may be.
• Speak with just you regarding the problem, with the goal of reaching an understanding between us. - Via voip or text channels.
Or
• Forward the concern to other staff teams that may have better insight into your issue.
An economy related concern can be raised for issues relating to income, spending, taxes, item prices, vehicle prices, rent, businesses, factions, or anything else that you feel is necessary.
All of the LSRP teams work together, so if your issue involves another area of the staff team, we will bring your economy related concern to them for you.
The mission of the economy team is to be as transparent as possible, I would like for discussions to be public as much as possible so that you, the players, can ensure that we are making the correct decisions before they are put into place, as decisions made here will affect everybody in potentially intrusive ways. I'm very approachable and I am strict to eliminate any bias, so please do not hesitate to raise your concerns to me, all concerns are welcome.
Thank you,
ROZE,
On behalf of The LSRP Economy Team
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Since the server has since released and we have new people around, I thought I'd bump this back up for people to have a look at
Hope you enjoy my vintage profile banners!
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Not sure what you've got going on there Daniels, gonna give that a 7 though
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This gives the illegal scene more to do, but takes away from the legal scene and the average player's ability to take part in gambling
It should be done in a way which can benefit both sides.
Legal casinos have a tonne of regulations that they must follow if they want to operate, as well as extremely high taxes (50% back in SAMP). This gives illegal factions the opportunity to come in and undercut casinos, as they will not need to give half of their profits to tax.
The reason illegal gambling wasn't a thing in SAMP was because gambling was not covered by the scamming rule, meaning if you were gambling illegally, you could pay someone $1M for them just to run away. The way to fix this is to add some rules that protect certain games which would stop players from being able to be scammed so easily.
With protections for players in place, illegal casinos will be able to offer gambling at lower rates that legal casinos, with protections for the players.
An issue this raises though is that players would only ever decide to go to illegal casinos if they were full of advantages over legal casinos, to mitigate this, I think a limit to the max amount of money allowed to be gambled before it's no longer protected by rules would need to be in place, or some other nerf.
The truth is this sort of thing is pretty complicated to work out if we are to try and support both the illegal and legal gambling scene, and honestly both should be supported as it isn't realistic to have neither of the two options.
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Thank you for the love guys
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sexy
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Thanks for sharing how you feel Apophis, I'm sure a lot, if not all of us feel the same way.
LSRP is what it is because of the community behind it, the community makes it great and has always worked with what it has. We never had the best scripts when comparing ourselves to other servers, it was the incredibly passionate community behind us that worked with it and made everyone's experience what it was.
We all know that communication has been lackluster, I like to remind myself that I'm waiting for you guys, the community. Not the staff. That's what keeps me motivated and holding on. The love that I have for this community is like the love for family and friends - I don't want to lose it.
We've got a staff/patrion meeting tomorrow, it's the first one since Mmartin went dark and then returned. Hopefully we'll discuss some progress and see where we're at.
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If you've got one, share it below! Here's my submission
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ace of spades = strong reaction
DISCUSSION: The future economics of properties.
in Economy Team
Posted
This hasn't been decided entirely yet, but it seems most logical that this would be the case or else there will be an issue with people losing their area of roleplay, furniture and items