Chuckles

Mate I'm shit with this shit it just opens an empty screen

What's up, old guard? Who's still around?

how do u install this shit in PS lol

I agree with the consensus but I think it should be much more than just playing illegal characters. Mostly because anybody can make an illegal character, anybody can throw up a thread, garner some support and use it as a justification. There should be mountains of experience, seasoning and understanding of the bracket other than "I've had this character, and that character." I don't want to say members are role models because they're definitely not but they should definitely lead by example. Not only their knowledge and understanding of the genre, but their roleplay should also stand out from the horde. I don't want to see legal roleplayers in faction management. I don't want to see inexperienced illegal roleplayers in faction management. Everyone should be tried and proven with successful characters or factions behind them, making it a case of "we must practice what we preach." If it becomes institutionalized by legal roleplayers or roleplayers because they're "modders" or "staff" then the house of cards falls apart and everyone calls it quits. The selling point of this server is its promise to the illegal community and without that, most of us lose interest. So far we've seen very little, heard very little and know very little. We know that there's pre-launch supplier applications but other than that, we're in the dark for the most part. More communication should be a priority considering we're 23 days out and even the turnaround times for them aren't looking great. We should be doing all we can to make sure factions hit the ground running so that it helps their longevity long after launch. Businesses, for one. Otherwise we'll all be roleplaying in public parks and alleyways. Another thing to consider is that we'll all most likely be vying for the same territory so this disorganization will cause a mass amount of factions who are gunning for the same spot to bump heads almost instantly. I've been a little disappointed in the lead-up to launch in terms of communication and being clued in. Not in terms of management or development who are extremely busy and focused on the actual activation of the server but to those who have been entrusted with the functionality of the server itself after launch. As someone who's going to be leading one of the server's biggest factions and one of the longest standing ones, I feel that we're left somewhat in the lurch by multiple departments who should already have all of this done by now.

What's crackin, OG?

I generally don't mind new, inexperienced players wetting their feet here. One of the most rewarding things you can do as a player or faction leader is help somebody evolve. And a lot of the time these inexperienced players are willing to learn. The difference in standard between new players and those of the "golden era" is microscopic. A lot of these returning players come back at that same level where the quality wasn't as good as it is now. So the comparison between "new" and "old" is somewhat of a paradox to begin with. The most important factor would be to set the precedent so that the standard doesn't degenerate the more new, or old, players join. I think the biggest problem most servers have is that they are happy with the status quo and often build their rules and enforcement around this. Players are a by-product of their surroundings, not their circumstance. In short, encourage new players but don't glorify them for doing what they're doing wrong. Educate them instead. Criticising new players (constructively) or players who come from different backgrounds is just as helpful as welcoming them is.

There she is.

I think largely the problem behind this is a concoction of things. A blend of envy, entitlement, and maybe even resentment prompts these "clashes of heads" between legal and illegal roleplayers. The green-eyed monster is usually to blame for the antagonism. Both genres feel the need to not only advocate for their department but also to argue against their counterpart because they feel it adds substance to their claims. I think this is where the misinterpretation comes into play in the entire legal vs illegal circus that appears in every discussion regardless of relevance. I think GTAw has shown that civilian roleplay can thrive as much as criminal roleplay can. They have also shown that both criminal and civilian roleplay can decline rapidly if misrepresented. Cop vs robber discussions have somehow managed to integrate and distort the image of genuine civilian and criminal interactions, relationships, and general synchronousness. I am a big believer in capitalizing on weaknesses but it is just as important to take away from strengths. Without the ambience, civilian roleplay provides, there would be no real immersion. Civilians are more important to criminal empires than what most people are willing to give them credit for. LSRP (of old) heavily favoured criminals. GTAw heavily favours civilians. It should be cut right down the middle. I think when suggestions are made people are very territorial and as a result, arguments are made a lot more confrontational than they need to be. LSRPv's biggest attraction currently is its illegal scene potential. It's what's in everyone's mouths, it's what every criminal roleplayer is waiting for. I think this will be (upon launch, that is) its biggest selling point. But I think once civilian roleplayers start to realize that there is a promising alternative they'll jump on the train too. It's going to be a case of gentrification.

Long time, man!

Best news in a long time!

Oh!

I wouldn't really put too much thought into it honestly. Take-Two have been utilizing DMCAs for years but in light of the launch of DE they've just swung their dicks around that bit more. The modders they're targeting are those who transform the game's original map. Generally the problem is with porting an old game into a new game. If any server has to worry, it'd be the one who think they'll be able to open a Liberty City server.

The reason for these DMCAs is because they "make new games look old and devalue them." Those servers and communities previously taken down have done exactly that. That's why you don't see a lot of Liberty City maps on Rage or FiveM because they'll be almost instantly taken down. There's one server attempting to do this now but realistically they won't make it a month past launch, if it's even launched to begin with. The most known case of this was GTA Underground's takedown where Take-Two hit them with a DMCA for merging all three maps together. I don't think the problem's necessarily with modding default clothing and pedestrian skins, it's more so to do with adding old skins and maps into a new game. All these mods were ports of the locations, cities, cars, and characters of old Rockstar Games titles on newer Grand Theft Auto engines.” For example, Vice Cry: Remastered ported the Grand Theft Auto: Vice City map into GTA V. It was further noted that these mods will no longer be available to download and that Take-Two has "actively [banned] GTA mods since July." There are still a lot GTA mods online, but many consider this a blow to modders. According to a post on GTA Forums, Take-Two Interactive agreed to let players mod GTA games as long as they did not port old content into new games or mod online content. The post details how Take-Two supposedly went back on this agreement, changing the rules around mods to include no new content. I don't think any Los Santos-based server have anything to worry about granted that they don't excessively mod the landscape of the map itself.

The platform in general. I'd been praying the SA-MP server would shut a lot sooner than it did and was happy it died out. The prospect of LSRP on GTA V is something to look forward to.

I'm not forgetting nothing and the reports you mentioned are not the ones I've referenced. Like I said, reports that require the aforementioned experience should be dealt with with veteran and pragmatic experience. Recycled and second-hand opinions do the exact thing you're argument is based on, which makes handling them "unfeasible due to their workload and volume of reports." Highly contradictory argument and is relatively baseless. One of the points in the original argument states that they should: To say that "there won't be enough admins experienced enough with illegal rp" is what the core root of the problem is to begin with and the change we're all arguing for. It doesn't take an IFM team to recognize that criminals do criminal shit, criminals kill for criminal shit and criminals have criminal agendas. Being openminded and educating yourself on criminal behaviour and criminal agendas is far more practical than following a checklist to enforce "black and white" rules. The one or two things you mentioned are what they should stick to if they're unable to be impartial. "Black and white" rules and rule enforcement are the problem. Not everything is open-and-shut. If it is self-evident then these are not the situations I'm talking about. Most situations should be able to be handled with common sense but they're not because the genre in question is not common to everyone. IFM's workload is overstated. In the server's peak I was a member handling the bulk of the faction reports on a frequent basis. I was able to handle them, regardless of how complex they were, in less than a day or two depending on the response time. From the outside looking in, sure, it may look like bombardment but I assure you it's not. Most IFM members would be happy to enforce their rule on reports in the interest of bettering roleplay and judgment. Maybe a section under Player Reports labelled FST would suffice if a player wants a knowledgeable government to handle their reports. It could be completely optional. But as players we shouldn't have to rely on one side of the spectrum for justifications that should come with the territory. A little learning goes a long way.

Also, every time I look at Mmartin's name on discord it's "Playing: Rage Multiplayer," so you know he's putting the hours in. Like Kane said, please don't derail the thread with pot-shots. The thread's centred around fixing idiosyncrasies, not faulting the server. If we can all combat the negatives and turn them into positives then by launch we'll already have one foot forward.

It completely invalidates it because the supposed summary was inaccurate. You can't summarize something that's not even one of the points brought up and the quote proves that. That's putting two and two together and getting five. Legal roleplay is just as important as illegal roleplay. None should be prioritized but neither one should be neglected or given precedence. There must be an equal balance. But to synopsize the argument: I'm not suggesting that LSRP should deviate from its system, what I'm suggestion is that it takes advantage of known issues in its own and other communities and corrects it. A lot what has people crossing its fingers for LSRP is problems that were on LSRP but weren't as bad. If you can rectify the problems and be receptive to constructive criticism without being sensitive to it then that's a step in the right direction. A lot of the time constructive criticism is perceived as discrediting when in reality all it is is a suggestion in the interest of bettering something. A lot of it has to do with miscomprehension as well. Instead of saying, "the server has so many problems," I'm saying "the server could be better if..." At the end of the day what I'm trying to do is bring forward an opinion that has the potential to better the server. Again, it's an opinion but it's one I feel is shared by the wider community. 1. People with no experience in a genre shouldn't be handling reports that require experience in said genre. 2. People with no experience in a category or minimal experience in a category shouldn't be making decisions based on "rules" alone. They need to be able to put themselves in a character's shoes. 3. In terms of transparency I feel that players should be clued in on the decisions that either negatively or positively effect their characters or accounts. These "discussions" sometimes remain hidden and secluded and I've witnessed my fair share of hidden agendas impacting decisions. It cancels out the bias claims that are always associated to subgroups and gives players clarity. 4. Be consistent and forthright. If the community plays on this "case by case" or an arbitrary system then it opens it up to claims of double standard. Don't enforce a standard at your discretion. It must be on-size-fits-all. 5. Be engaging and ingenuous with the community. "Verified discussions" was a step in the right direction but after the departure of the administration that implemented it it was neglected and the public were given very few answers. A system like that should be implemented universally. 6. Put more power in the community's hands. In most communities discussions and decisions are open and closed. Meaning that any administrator or support member can close threads based on their discretion. In other words, if they don't like or agree with it then it's not worth the time of day. Stop this and let them play out. 7. Don't confuse "heavy" roleplay with hyperrealism. On other servers your faction is given virtually zero chance of existence if it doesn't go in line with Southern California. In a nutshell, if you're not an Armenian, Russian, skinhead or gang banger then you're held to an outrageous standard. Let players do what they want as long as their concept treats San Andreas like Southern California. All this "they wouldn't be here" shit is nothing more than micromanagement. If their concept isn't too far fetched and outside the lines of realism then leave them be. Who gives a fuck if there's three Italian crime families and a Serbian faction? 8. Put more investigative powers in the PD and SD's hands. Good criminal roleplay means good law enforcement roleplay. They bounce off of each other. 9. Make people value their characters. Enforce a CK rule if they put their lives at risk. 10. Stop with the excessive amount of OOC prison time unless it's murder. Maybe even repeat robberies to try and crack down on chain robberies. People will just name change and it ruins longevity and continuation and also investigations. 11. Give players breathing space. Less micromanagement and bureaucracy. If we have a business and change characters, let us keep our move our businesses without stupid levels of scrutiny. We shouldn't have to account for every little thing our characters do down to the color of its socks. 12. Don't lower the standard because "they're all we've got." There's always ways around work load, most just don't want to spread it around. I wasn't planning on writing this much so that "synopsis" I had planned is out the window But this has been on the back of my mind for months. And for the record, as a former member of staff, very little in the aforementioned "staff meetings" ever came to fruition. Most of what was said or brought forward was wrote down like something was being done but very rarely was. It was always put in the rear-view. But a fresh start will change that, I hope. Again, it's food for thought and was brought forward constructively. At the end of the day it's going to be a collective effort. Why not start prior to launch?

If you paid attention to the substance instead of the quote in a reply to another contributor then maybe you wouldn't mistake the purpose of the thread. The focus of the thread is to help LSRP, not any other server. Between the reference to aphorisms and the mention of quotes I'd say the only reason you've posted is to exhibit your competence in literature. Well done, you can read and write. So if that's what you take from this thread then I'd ask you to stay out of the discussion and leave it to those who are trying to promote change and raise awareness to the subject at hand. It's not exploitive, it's opportunistic. There's plenty of light roleplay servers on both platforms but there's been very few English speaking heavy roleplay servers with a decent player base. But again, I suppose that depends on your interpretation of "heavy." There's no need to point out the obvious. If your take on this is the "focus of this server is lsrp and lsrp only" then you're talking to a brick wall.

The benefit of hindsight is knowing what you done wrong so that you can make it better. The reason other servers are used as a comparison is because it's applicable to this server's growth. People that claim its prototype and old apparatus will be the reason for its success are being naïve and simple-minded. You look at what gave LSRP longevity and you look at what gives GTAw longevity: each platform had no competition and were able to monopolize the brand. Now you're looking at a completely different landscape in the sense that for once in our existence there will be competition. Recent shortcomings and failures of other prominent servers show you first hand that incompetency and putting people where they don't belong are the driving force behind mass migration. Tossing a coin and hoping for the best upon launch is like playing Russian roulette and is more of a hit-and-hope assessment. Contingencies need to be put in place and experience, knowledge and understanding should be behind every decision, every role and every enforcement. What needs to be understood here is what made LSRP successful in the past will no longer be its strength. Similar to what I've explained above, the reason for its success also has the potential to be its Achilles heel. At the end of the day and I'll be the first to admit, there was a lot of room for improvement. The reality was the server hadn't been the same from around 2018 or so and this was through an overall lack of standard, something the most of us (even in IFM at the time) turned a blind eye to. Looking at others' mistakes is just as important as looking at your own mistakes except in this case, you can feed off of others' mistakes and hope to capitalize on it. It's not giving the wrong impression at all, it's highly applicable and anybody that doesn't understand that are part of the problem of being stagnant and complacent. You can fix your own mistakes. You can learn and improve from others' mistakes whilst also taking advantage of them. It's a double edged sword.

Ah, yeah. Then having only played LSRP is probably why you haven't came into contact with any of the idiosyncrasies we've pointed out. But I assure you if you did you'd understand the context behind the post. Thanks for the contribution and the discussion nonetheless. This is what I've hoped to spark after all.

When a project is not yet live the only way you can do is dissect what worked and what didn't work from other communities. Reflecting on the actions of others helps put things into perspective and gives you, as management, an understanding of opinions. Not just opinions but the years worth of trial and error it went through. I don't know why you've managed to dilute the thread into a tug-of-war when the "end goal" is essentially to turn another community's known flaw into a strength. If we were members of any server past or present, we completely have a right to break down its deficiencies in an attempt to better them. This is the problem most people have and other communities in specific, they take any breakdown, criticism or comparison and turn it into an aggressiveness. As players of all of the servers we have the right to comparatively make a case for what we think worked and what we think didn't work. In this case, the illegal side of the server was completely neglected for years and it was never addressed. If you're not an illegal roleplayer, you wouldn't understand. A quote I find applicable to the intent behind this thread is, "A smart man makes a mistake, learns from it, and never makes that mistake again. But a wise man finds a smart man and learns from him how to avoid the mistake altogether." One of the servers I mentioned is a well oiled machine, the other is not. You seem to have taken my argument out of context misquoted me by making a reference to GTAw when a completely different server (that hasn't launched) was referenced to emphasize that with poor decisions, a server won't even get off its feet. You can read the second line of the paragraph you quoted to get a better understanding of what without picking and choosing what to reference. Micromanagement and bureaucracy is behind the majority of these problems listed and like I said, this thread is in the interest of the server itself making the right choices. We've all got its best interests in mind. Because this isn't about trying to fix another server's issue. This is about learning from another server's mistake. I don't know why you can't make the distinction between the two but the reason most of us are here is because diplomacy, dialogue and raising concern on most other servers don't work through either denial or a lack of respect and acknowledgement of our concerns. There is no malice behind the thread, it's simply in place to send the concerns up the corporate ladder. The concerns being that certain decisions have the possibility of ruining an entire project. Without cognizance, involvement and transparency then we are back to square one and will never secure consistency. The proof is in the pudding here for all to see as clear as day. Examples make statements clearer. It's not about viewing people as "competitors," it's about taking the good from the bad and making it better. You, (I assume) as a legal roleplayer may not have no reason to comment on its shortcomings but a lot of us illegal roleplayers do and this is what puts us in a position to help better this server: through practical research and development our experiences are key to helping LSRPv figure out its blueprint.

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I think currently GTAW finds itself in the shoes LSRP were once in. By that I mean that they have a monopoly over the genre simply because there is no alternative, similarly to our community on SA:MP. Players stuck around because there was nowhere else to go. On GTAW what you've got is a server and community tailored around legal roleplayers, ran by legal roleplayers and heavily influenced by legal roleplayers. One sticking point that comes up time and time again is their IFM's lack of engagement, transparency and knowledge and this is the driving force behind the bulk of our roleplayers leaving their server. Now, a lot of people use this a basis to promote their roleplay but the fact of the matter is that it's the truth, their lack of regard for their illegal community is what will offer LSRP a way in. Over the course of the last few months it's been more evident than ever and their management's obliviousness to the fact is what adds insult to injury. For this server to hit the ground running what you have to do is capitalize on the shortcomings of the aforementioned server and strike while the iron's hot. Transparency will be a key factor in attracting these players. Deliverance will be what keeps them and the expectations and promises need to be fulfilled in order for this to come to fruition at all. Illegal roleplay shouldn't be prioritized by any means but it should be treated with the same amount of respect as legal roleplay and given the same opportunity of prosperity. Illegal roleplay has always been the foundation of LSRP but what made LSRP so consistent was its honesty, its openness and its lucidity. Transparency was always there one way or another. One look at their faction's forum and you realize that their faction management team are driving people into LSRP's arms and for years it's gone unnoticed and unaddressed because their has been no alternative. You can forget about servers like LCRP making a wave because they're not battled tested like LSRP is and don't have the following LSRP do, coupled with the fact that their management are as corrupt as the day is long. All these make-shift beliefs and idealisms are used to lure people in but it's nothing more than a false pretense and a power grab. In other words, in certain communities if you don't agree with somebody's modus operandi, they will find a way to ban you, silence you or misinterpret you. On LSRP I believe that the number one priority should be to put the power in the player's hands. For this to overtake its competitors and scratch the surface it's got to recognize the flaws of communities that don't work. LSRP is genuinely the last hope for those interested in illegal roleplay. We need to do as much as we can to emphasize that and promote the fact that the community and management are receptive to that or we're back to square one. It's in all of our interests if we're on the same wave length. All old community politics should be disregarded and the slate should be wiped clean. This will only work if we're all on the same page. Make LSRP great again.

Essy, Giulio Scipione, Dimitri and Soap.