What just happened to the gun prices?

[Userone]

Spoiler

Hi,

 

I've been enjoying this new economy while it lasted.

 

Last, or the week before that, I remember looking at gun prices and seeing a realistic range of $350-$700. I saw $200 pistols being offered on blackmarket. It was quite a honeymoon moment, like something was different. Like it wasn't going to be overly inflated for once.

 

Suddenly, midway thru my application process last week, the gun licenses jump from $800 (PF $350 + CCW $450) to $2,200 (PF $1,000 + CCW $1,200) and guns are now in $5,000 - $8,000 range, even small pistols.

 

Did the ICA devalue the currency to justify financing their department, or does anyone have any explanation for what just happened? I'm very curious, thanks.

I recede my previous statement following the price reduction. Now the gun prices for licensed citizens are reasonable.

 

Much respect to LSRP.

Edited August 21, 2023 by Userone

[30PiecesOfSilver]

Blame the street gang deathmatchers

[Userone]

1 minute ago, 30PiecesOfSilver said:

Blame the street gang deathmatchers

That's only more reason to keep guns accessible to law abiding citizens...

 

When will they learn, you can't fight gun violence with gun control... violent gunners don't obey rules to begin with!

Edited August 10, 2023 by Userone

[30PiecesOfSilver]

5 minutes ago, Userone said:

That's only more reason to keep guns accessible to law abiding citizens...

 

When will they learn, you can't fight gun violence with gun control... violent gunners don't obey rules to begin with!

Agreed, I think stricter PF licenses regulations needs to be enforced tbh, and I mean ooc rules

 

[Kaos.]

PF permits were being abused by many which ruined it for the majority.

[ItzDruqqie]

^^

[Giovanni_Sgroi]

I don't want to sound like a know-all but I have played for a long time, experienced different server states, and writing from personal observation.

 

First and foremost, there's a difference between deathmatch and trigger happiness. Most commonly:

 

Deathmatch is looking for or provoking action to kill with little to no reason. 

Trigger happiness is reacting with action (to kill) when provoked but not looking for or provoking action themselves.

 

A misconception is that more guns results in more deathmatch and robberies. You couldn't be further from the truth. 

 

When dealing with said problems, we have to look at the core of the problem: player behavior. Guns are a means of carrying out said behavior, not the cause. Read that again. 

 

I was personally involved in official factions supplying the server guns from 2008 to 2011 and we largely only had 2 goals:

1. Oversupply (flood) the market so everyone who wants a gun has access to guns. I'll later explain why it's important.
2. Maintain supply chain stability and never inflate the price: the street price of a Desert Eagle was tied to the $3,000 mechanic paycheck. Our idea was that the average price of a Desert Eagle should never exceed $3,000 (it took 3 years to inflate to $3,500) but we maintained a highly controlled supply chain, and each step of the supply chain had a price range in a few hundred range (I think the range was originally $500, for margin). A player was able to get a gun after an hour of play (both in terms of affordability and finding a dealer).

When either or neither of the goals is met the server faces the following key problems:

 

1) Subpar roleplay (and mass robberies) trying to find guns for their roleplay using non-roleplay means. Let's be completely honest with ourselves: in the U.S. guns aren't difficult to acquire by any stretch of the imagination, and LSRP is an amplified version of the U.S. since most players roleplay the criminal side of real-life society.

 

The truth is, almost everyone should have guns. For a few reasons:

 

They can roleplay what they want. If they want to roleplay drive-bys and shootouts. Let them. That's their idea of roleplay, and that's what they find fun. It shouldn't bother anyone else until they start bothering others, and that leads me to the next point.

 

We need to cultivate a culture where we don't bother others for the sake of bothering others.

First, deathmatch and subpar robberies are rulebreaking and should be treated as such with OOC punishments (and they should be dealt with promptly, and consistently, to prevent repeat offenders).

Secondly, trigger happiness should be among those who are trigger-happy. Take it outside an open business. Take it into the hood. Don't shoot up someone in a place trigger happiness doesn't belong. That's what gang roleplayers and criminals can do themselves, and if it's reported by other players it should be treated similarly to deathmatch.

 

What we did as official factions was we stopped supplying factions that engaged in deathmatch or trigger happiness, and it took away from those factions' ability to defend themselves against rival factions and earn money street dealing guns. 

 

If player 1 is trigger-happy and player 2 is trigger-happy it's fine when they shoot up each other (if that's what they find fun roleplay) as long as they don't bother players 3 and 4. When their trigger happiness carries over to ruining players 3 and 4 it becomes a server-wide problem. 

When guns are very easy to get then certain types of behavior are encouraged:

 

1) There's little to no play-to-win attitude because nobody cares about losing their gun.

• You want to rob my gun off me? Take it for all I care I'll have another one in 20 minutes.
• I feel like defending myself? I always have a gun on me. “Don't be stupid. This is the shootout.“
• Everybody carries a gun? Oh shit, I better think twice before I rob someone because they might defend themselves.

When you make guns scarce you are going to get the opposite effect:

• Players are going to play to win to keep their guns because it's difficult to get another one.
• Players are going to lack self-defense and become even easier targets for robberies.

2) There are 2 types of robberies:

• Robberies where thieves go out looking for victims. That's often the worst quality roleplay because realistically speaking, robberies wouldn't take place in broad daylight in affluent neighborhoods. Robbing someone in front of a West Los Santos clothes store goes against the common courtesy rule and should be treated as such.
• Robberies where the victims are in the wrong place at the right time. If you wander around gang-infested neighborhoods and aren't careful you deserve to be robbed. Let's be clear about that: that's your responsibility and fuck-up.

Only the 2nd type of robberies should happen en masse because they're self-inflicted, and don't ruin anyone's roleplay because they brought it upon themselves. The exception to the rule is planned robberies which are usually well-executed.

 

In conclusion,

• guns are the means, not the cause.
• guns should be abundant, not scarce.
• gun market should have a realistic supply chain and price ranges that don't inflate.
• PF licenses should be difficult to obtain and revoked immediately upon evidence of abuse. They should be means for legal characters acquiring and carrying guns for self-protection (for whom it wouldn't realistically make sense to buy one from a gun dealer), not for criminal characters.
• OOC punishments for deathmatch, trigger-happiness, and subpar robberies should be prompt and consistent, especially for repeat offenders.
• IC consequences should be implemented to invoke fear (because the average player behaves based on the IC consequences, or lack thereof). 

Limiting the supply of guns doesn't address the fundamental problem (and causes other problems). The fundamental problem is player behavior, not the number of guns.

Edited August 10, 2023 by Giovanni_Sgroi

[Beda]

8 hours ago, Giovanni_Sgroi said:

I don't want to sound like a know-all but I have played for a long time, experienced different server states, and writing from personal observation.

 

First and foremost, there's a difference between deathmatch and trigger happiness. Most commonly:

 

Deathmatch is looking for or provoking action to kill with little to no reason. 

Trigger happiness is reacting with action (to kill) when provoked but not looking for or provoking action themselves.

 

A misconception is that more guns results in more deathmatch and robberies. You couldn't be further from the truth. 

 

When dealing with said problems, we have to look at the core of the problem: player behavior. Guns are a means of carrying out said behavior, not the cause. Read that again. 

 

I was personally involved in official factions supplying the server guns from 2008 to 2011 and we largely only had 2 goals:

1. Oversupply (flood) the market so everyone who wants a gun has access to guns. I'll later explain why it's important.
2. Maintain supply chain stability and never inflate the price: the street price of a Desert Eagle was tied to the $3,000 mechanic paycheck. Our idea was that the average price of a Desert Eagle should never exceed $3,000 (it took 3 years to inflate to $3,500) but we maintained a highly controlled supply chain, and each step of the supply chain had a price range in a few hundred range (I think the range was originally $500, for margin). A player was able to get a gun after an hour of play (both in terms of affordability and finding a dealer).

When either or neither of the goals is met the server faces the following key problems:

 

1) Subpar roleplay (and mass robberies) trying to find guns for their roleplay using non-roleplay means. Let's be completely honest with ourselves: in the U.S. guns aren't difficult to acquire by any stretch of the imagination, and LSRP is an amplified version of the U.S. since most players roleplay the criminal side of real-life society.

 

The truth is, almost everyone should have guns. For a few reasons:

 

They can roleplay what they want. If they want to roleplay drive-bys and shootouts. Let them. That's their idea of roleplay, and that's what they find fun. It shouldn't bother anyone else until they start bothering others, and that leads me to the next point.

 

We need to cultivate a culture where we don't bother others for the sake of bothering others.

First, deathmatch and subpar robberies are rulebreaking and should be treated as such with OOC punishments (and they should be dealt with promptly, and consistently, to prevent repeat offenders).

Secondly, trigger happiness should be among those who are trigger-happy. Take it outside an open business. Take it into the hood. Don't shoot up someone in a place trigger happiness doesn't belong. That's what gang roleplayers and criminals can do themselves, and if it's reported by other players it should be treated similarly to deathmatch.

 

What we did as official factions was we stopped supplying factions that engaged in deathmatch or trigger happiness, and it took away from those factions' ability to defend themselves against rival factions and earn money street dealing guns. 

 

If player 1 is trigger-happy and player 2 is trigger-happy it's fine when they shoot up each other (if that's what they find fun roleplay) as long as they don't bother players 3 and 4. When their trigger happiness carries over to ruining players 3 and 4 it becomes a server-wide problem. 

When guns are very easy to get then certain types of behavior are encouraged:

 

1) There's little to no play-to-win attitude because nobody cares about losing their gun.

• You want to rob my gun off me? Take it for all I care I'll have another one in 20 minutes.
• I feel like defending myself? I always have a gun on me. “Don't be stupid. This is the shootout.“
• Everybody carries a gun? Oh shit, I better think twice before I rob someone because they might defend themselves.

When you make guns scarce you are going to get the opposite effect:

• Players are going to play to win to keep their guns because it's difficult to get another one.
• Players are going to lack self-defense and become even easier targets for robberies.

2) There are 2 types of robberies:

• Robberies where thieves go out looking for victims. That's often the worst quality roleplay because realistically speaking, robberies wouldn't take place in broad daylight in affluent neighborhoods. Robbing someone in front of a West Los Santos clothes store goes against the common courtesy rule and should be treated as such.
• Robberies where the victims are in the wrong place at the right time. If you wander around gang-infested neighborhoods and aren't careful you deserve to be robbed. Let's be clear about that: that's your responsibility and fuck-up.

Only the 2nd type of robberies should happen en masse because they're self-inflicted, and don't ruin anyone's roleplay because they brought it upon themselves. The exception to the rule is planned robberies which are usually well-executed.

 

In conclusion,

• guns are the means, not the cause.
• guns should be abundant, not scarce.
• gun market should have a realistic supply chain and price ranges that don't inflate.
• PF licenses should be difficult to obtain and revoked immediately upon evidence of abuse. They should be means for legal characters acquiring and carrying guns for self-protection (for whom it wouldn't realistically make sense to buy one from a gun dealer), not for criminal characters.
• OOC punishments for deathmatch, trigger-happiness, and subpar robberies should be prompt and consistent, especially for repeat offenders.
• IC consequences should be implemented to invoke fear (because the average player behaves based on the IC consequences, or lack thereof). 

Limiting the supply of guns doesn't address the fundamental problem (and causes other problems). The fundamental problem is player behavior, not the number of guns.

i agree with this fully and thats my thoughts on the case too 

we have alrdy tried making guns hard to get on lsrp samp in its last few years and it was shit and it made the server ass

 

1- no1 could take an L so they dont lose their guns, reports every minute, me myself used to report on lsrp samp every minute so i can get a refund for the gun that was hard to obtain (petty reports just to get the situation voided)

2-p2w mentality as u mentioned

3-all guns will be sold thru ooc deals. Ooc deals existed and will exist forever theres no way to stop it, but if guns r easy to get then no one will ooc deal or it will be way less cuz whats the point? Its easy to get, but if guns r hard to get everyone will save their guns to sell for their ooc homies and the rpers who wanna obtain it icly will find nothing, im speaking from a wide experience on this matter

Edited August 10, 2023 by Beda

[melt city]

This is putting civilians at a disadvantage, could've just implemented OOC background checks and banned gang members from getting PFs.

[Lindsie]

45 minutes ago, melt city said:

This is putting civilians at a disadvantage, could've just implemented OOC background checks and banned gang members from getting PFs.

Hey buddy! We don't take kindly to people who use logic here!

[melt city]

1 hour ago, Lindsie said:

Hey buddy! We don't take kindly to people who use logic here!

Let's also not take into consideration the fact that this rise in prices just made some banger's PF stash the most profitable purchase in the history of Los Santos.  

[Tungsten]

11 hours ago, melt city said:

This is putting civilians at a disadvantage, could've just implemented OOC background checks and banned gang members from getting PFs.

I suggested this and was shot down by Faction Management. I was told that raising prices would solve all the problems...

[ImperiumXVII]

So the current prices is just a stop gap. Call it a shortage of imports whilst the government figures out new policy.

 

We've already discussed this and are deciding on a new price range as we felt the first ones were too cheap. The new range will be about $500 to $800 for a pistol, and up to $1300 for a rifle. We want to make it a financial investment, an incentive to remain alive and out of danger as long as possible, but still provide a viable way for someone to defend themselves. This is paired with the fact ammo is ridiculously cheap and has no buy cap. 

 

On top of this, we are also looking at a cheaper way for a security company to source firearms for their company. Possibly a x% discount at the gun store to act as your company reimbursing the purchase.

 

As part of the changes to legal guns, we have also introduced open carry laws that mean you can open carry your rifle in certain spaces, and you can freely open carry a handgun anywhere except the prison. A large part of the reason gun prices were hiked is because legal factions weren't communicating with each other. A police officer would revoke a license and not tell anybody, and then the government would go ahead and re-issue it, and the offenders would retain access to cheap guns. The steep price hike was intended as a way to break this cycle before starting a new one.

 

We do not want to implement OOC background checks beyond "has this person been banned from a PF license before". Being part of a gang does not disqualify a person for a license, and I feel that gangs' reliance on PF guns was heavily overstated by police factions that were encountering guns every day. It has since been determined that it was actually black market guns that were the issue, not legal ones.

 

With recent changes, meaning police factions can see whether or not a gun was bought legally, extra logging for the issuance and revocation of licenses, and changes to the minimum level one must be to even get a license, we are comfortable returning prices to a realistic level.

 

The price change will be made today (20 August). Everything else has already been done.

[JJABOOTLE]

illegal rpers being oocly allowed to apply for PF licenses did this, shouldnt be allowed if ur char is a gang banger that you can get a gun license cuz its just fucked and done this price boost where everyone is overinflating.

[Lindsie]

I don't understand why on earth you want criminals doing crimes with legal guns. Does this server really have so bad gun economy for illegals, that you need to fix it with letting everyone have legal guns? Also wouldn't getting illegal gun promote more RP because you need to make connections and such for them?