Current state of the economy.

[Sal]

Yeah in fairness this is coming up as a priority to sort out, keep putting your thoughts in here because I think there's going to be a big meeting about this later today. Best not to panic too much at this stage; as you've said yourselves, getting this right at the very start is important and it's obviously a wide, fairly complex issue with a range of potential solutions. One thing we do know though is that it's easier to fix problems relating to "not enough money being in the server" than it is to fix massive inflation and too much money being in the server.

 

The starting figures we have so far with regards to pay etc are exactly that: starting figures. The economy was always going to be a pretty big unknown factor, so feedback like this is really useful. Keep it comin'

[Kingston AT]

Economy is a big issue right now. 

 

I think we all appreciate that you are giving your best to keep the economy as stable as possible, but the elephant in the room is that there is, as of now, no real way to get around the map properly. People need vehicles. Everyone, as of now, is either on foot, is using faction vehicles or is using job vehicles to go around the map.

 

I don't mind the loan system. It isn't bad, but it involves, more or less, grinding. I'm providing a few examples (just faction pay, no temporary pay). I am, to keep this easier, always playing seven hours a week in every example.

 

Spoiler

My character works for the LSSD as Commander. He, currently, earns (without the social security payment) $430 per payday. That is - understandably - above average. My character is no friend of fast vehicles, so the "Sport" section under pdm.com in-game is taboo. My character wants to go for a muscle car. The "Muscle" section it is. I found the Sabre GT. Seems like a decent fit for my character, so let us do the math now.

 

$35,238 excluding tax. I'm going for the cheapest Diesel motor. Default wheels. No lock, no alarm, nothing fancy. This comes out:

 

 

I went for 15%. My character would pay back in 12 months, coming to a weekly payment of $736. That is more than just fair. Keep in mind: My character is one of the best-paid characters on the server right now. It is no big deal for this character to pay back the loan.

 

=> $3,010,00 if I play this character seven hours a week ON-DUTY. No other expenses.

 

Per hour: $430

Per week: $3,010

Per month: $12,040

 

Let us do the maths with my other character:

 

Spoiler

My other character is, surprise surprise, also a LEO. He's a Sergeant and currently earns about $170 per paycheck. Now my Sergeant character wants the same vehicle. The same deal:

 

 

I went for 15%. My character would pay back in 12 months, coming to a weekly payment of $736. Remember, I get $170 per payday.

 

=> $1190 if I play 7 hours a week ON-DUTY. No other expenses.

 

Per hour: $170

Per week: $1,190

Per month: $4,760

 

My character can definitely pay back the loan. It is possible. It is going to be hard - but not impossible - to pump cash into the circulation, as that'd be missing at the end of the week. 

 

And, surprise surprise, my third character is also a LEO. I know. I really love to play LEO characters.

 

Spoiler

This character is, in our example, a simple Deputy Sheriff. This guy is earning $110 per paycheck. Same vehicle. Same deal.

 

 

=>$770 if I play 7 hours a week. OK, here's where I am going to struggle. I can't have any other expenses, otherwise I'd risk losing my vehicle. It is still possible, agreed, but I'm unable to pump some of that cash I earned back into the economy.

 

Per hour: $110

Per week: $770

Per month: $3,080

 

These are three of my examples. Every example I provided presupposes that I:

• play at least 7 hours a week
• spend 7/7 hours ON-DUTY
• don't have any other weekly expenses I have to pay in-game (e.g. a house, rent)

I'm gonna provide one last, fictional example.

 

Spoiler

I've just created a new character. I don't want to do much. No script jobs, no faction, no nothing. I wanna roleplay with a group of friends. This character is living off of the temporary assistance payment we get every hour until we reach level 4. That's gonna be 36 hours. Thank you for looking it up for me, by the way, Duco.

 

 

=> $1995 if I play seven hours a week.

 

Per hour: $285

Per week: $1,995

Per month: $7,980

 

If I play seven hours a week for a whole month, I still have 8 hours left where I'd get $285.

 

Maybe others want to calculate their character's income and expenses as well, so Staff can use our examples to work out how the system needs to be adapted to work the best.

 

As for my personal opinion: It seems to work out, but I can't lose the feeling that I, sooner or later, have to grind. I'm no friend of grinding. And keep in mind: There's going to be other expenses too. Rent, gas money, maybe narcotics here and there, maybe a firearm, maybe citations. It needs to be adapted, but I don't have enough insight to help you out here. I hope the examples are going to help you out.

[Dionkoffie]

1 hour ago, Sal said:

Yeah in fairness this is coming up as a priority to sort out, keep putting your thoughts in here because I think there's going to be a big meeting about this later today. Best not to panic too much at this stage; as you've said yourselves, getting this right at the very start is important and it's obviously a wide, fairly complex issue with a range of potential solutions. One thing we do know though is that it's easier to fix problems relating to "not enough money being in the server" than it is to fix massive inflation and too much money being in the server.

 

The starting figures we have so far with regards to pay etc are exactly that: starting figures. The economy was always going to be a pretty big unknown factor, so feedback like this is really useful. Keep it comin'

I appreciate this! This is why I said what I said above. It's not to complain or rant, but rather to give feedback that I know you guys are looking for.

 

I'm aware that this is just the start and I have no doubt things will improve.

Over the years I have been involved in a few RP server startups and its important to get the first impression to a newcoming player just right so that they will stick around and tell their friends to participate. After all, recommendations from people you know is the best form of advertising.

 

As I've mentioned on another thread. The server itself works really well and the script is really stable surprisingly so I'm really excited on what's to come.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Dionkoffie

[Button]

18 minutes ago, Kingston AT said:

Economy is a big issue right now. 

 

I think we all appreciate that you are giving your best to keep the economy as stable as possible, but the elephant in the room is that there is, as of now, no real way to get around the map properly. People need vehicles. Everyone, as of now, is either on foot, is using faction vehicles or is using job vehicles to go around the map.

 

I don't mind the loan system. It isn't bad, but it involves, more or less, grinding. I'm providing a few examples (just faction pay, no temporary pay). I am, to keep this easier, always playing seven hours a week in every example.

 

  Hide contents

My character works for the LSSD as Commander. He, currently, earns (without the social security payment) $430 per payday. That is - understandably - above average. My character is no friend of fast vehicles, so the "Sport" section under pdm.com in-game is taboo. My character wants to go for a muscle car. The "Muscle" section it is. I found the Sabre GT. Seems like a decent fit for my character, so let us do the math now.

 

$35,238 excluding tax. I'm going for the cheapest Diesel motor. Default wheels. No lock, no alarm, nothing fancy. This comes out:

 

 

I went for 15%. My character would pay back in 12 months, coming to a weekly payment of $736. That is more than just fair. Keep in mind: My character is one of the best-paid characters on the server right now. It is no big deal for this character to pay back the loan.

 

=> $3,010,00 if I play this character seven hours a week ON-DUTY. No other expenses.

 

Per hour: $430

Per week: $3,010

Per month: $12,040

 

Let us do the maths with my other character:

 

  Hide contents

My other character is, surprise surprise, also a LEO. He's a Sergeant and currently earns about $170 per paycheck. Now my Sergeant character wants the same vehicle. The same deal:

 

 

I went for 15%. My character would pay back in 12 months, coming to a weekly payment of $736. Remember, I get $170 per payday.

 

=> $1190 if I play 7 hours a week ON-DUTY. No other expenses.

 

Per hour: $170

Per week: $1,190

Per month: $4,760

 

My character can definitely pay back the loan. It is possible. It is going to be hard - but not impossible - to pump cash into the circulation, as that'd be missing at the end of the week. 

 

And, surprise surprise, my third character is also a LEO. I know. I really love to play LEO characters.

 

  Hide contents

This character is, in our example, a simple Deputy Sheriff. This guy is earning $110 per paycheck. Same vehicle. Same deal.

 

 

=>$770 if I play 7 hours a week. OK, here's where I am going to struggle. I can't have any other expenses, otherwise I'd risk losing my vehicle. It is still possible, agreed, but I'm unable to pump some of that cash I earned back into the economy.

 

Per hour: $110

Per week: $770

Per month: $3,080

 

These are three of my examples. Every example I provided presupposes that I:

• play at least 7 hours a week
• spend 7/7 hours ON-DUTY
• don't have any other weekly expenses I have to pay in-game (e.g. a house, rent)

I'm gonna provide one last, fictional example.

 

  Hide contents

I've just created a new character. I don't want to do much. No script jobs, no faction, no nothing. I wanna roleplay with a group of friends. This character is living off of the temporary assistance payment we get every hour until we reach level 4. That's gonna be 36 hours. Thank you for looking it up for me, by the way, Duco.

 

 

=> $1995 if I play seven hours a week.

 

Per hour: $285

Per week: $1,995

Per month: $7,980

 

If I play seven hours a week for a whole month, I still have 8 hours left where I'd get $285.

 

Maybe others want to calculate their character's income and expenses as well, so Staff can use our examples to work out how the system needs to be adapted to work the best.

 

As for my personal opinion: It seems to work out, but I can't lose the feeling that I, sooner or later, have to grind. I'm no friend of grinding. And keep in mind: There's going to be other expenses too. Rent, gas money, maybe narcotics here and there, maybe a firearm, maybe citations. It needs to be adapted, but I don't have enough insight to help you out here. I hope the examples are going to help you out.

Straight up facts.

[roskeii]

3 hours ago, Dionkoffie said:

 

There's a difference between realism and a system that is fun and works on an rp server.

 

 

I think this is the main takeaway here. I think we would rather start it off too harshly and have this sort of discussion than it be the opposite and then everyone has cars in a day or two that they own, a house, and a business. People IRL save up months and months for cars, even for financing, however, this is still a game so I think the economy could do with a little bit of boosting in terms of maybe pushing everything up by 5/10/15%.

 

Someone somewhere can do the maths!

[blitzfury]

6 hours ago, Dionkoffie said:

It literally pays more to just afk somewhere and farm the hourly benefit paychecks.

 

 

This. It isn't ok to receive a higher amount by AFK-ing than by grinding a scripted job, people are more likely to afk than to be active in the game and nobody likes a server where you can't strike up a conversation with someone because they're afk-ing waiting for the next paycheck from the server. 

[Mmartin]

I encourage you all to join a brainstorming session on Discord today 8 PM server time where we'll discuss these points.

[Ronnie2Polez]

My worry is how are you going to encourage people from other communities to come over when they have established their assets there?

[Santawyy]

16 minutes ago, Ronnie2Polez said:

My worry is how are you going to encourage people from other communities to come over when they have established their assets there?

Because LS-RP is well know about how strict the RP standard is and joining a new server is something better not worse in my opinion, give you a fair chance with everyone to do whatever you want from the start, get a stronger root.

[Overlord6969]

at the end of the day we should remember its still a game, butchering the economy is obviously something to avoid but a lot of people come back from menial jobs, and would rather just sit back, and relax, not having to feel like its a competition as to whos gonna race first to get property/cars/wealth

but im pretty sure this thing will be addressed today, so i doubt its gonna be a big issue

[Dionkoffie]

I have to say, I gained a lot more confidence after the meeting today. Some really good ideas where thrown around to attempt to solve this issue and I like it.

 

Keep it up!

[Bryar1427]

20 hours ago, trashstar said:

then how did you make 17k lol? that's way above what most people have

Over the course of the weekend, I managed to earn enough to rent a nice home, buy a car(financed, obviously), pay for my license and CDL.  I feel like I've done okay for being level 3 and having like 25 hours or something in the game.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Bryar1427

[Kenado]

While striving for a realistic economy, it is essential to ensure that the gameplay remains engaging and enjoyable. Finding a middle ground between realism and providing accessible gameplay experiences will attract and retain a larger player base. Consider adjusting certain aspects, such as initial rent costs and vehicle prices, to allow new players to immerse themselves in the roleplay experience without excessive grinding. Leadership should establish a feedback loop with the community to regularly review and fine-tune the economy based on player experiences. Conduct surveys, community discussions, or even dedicated in-game events to gather feedback and suggestions from the player base. This iterative approach will help maintain a healthy and balanced economy over time.

Another idea is implementing a tiered system for job payouts, where the more experienced and skilled players are rewarded with higher incomes. This would encourage players to invest time and effort into developing their characters and skills, providing a sense of progression within the economy.