Learn from Past Mistakes

[Chuckles]

I think currently GTAW finds itself in the shoes LSRP were once in. By that I mean that they have a monopoly over the genre simply because there is no alternative, similarly to our community on SA:MP. Players stuck around because there was nowhere else to go. On GTAW what you've got is a server and community tailored around legal roleplayers, ran by legal roleplayers and heavily influenced by legal roleplayers. One sticking point that comes up time and time again is their IFM's lack of engagement, transparency and knowledge and this is the driving force behind the bulk of our roleplayers leaving their server. Now, a lot of people use this a basis to promote their roleplay but the fact of the matter is that it's the truth, their lack of regard for their illegal community is what will offer LSRP a way in.

 

Over the course of the last few months it's been more evident than ever and their management's obliviousness to the fact is what adds insult to injury. For this server to hit the ground running what you have to do is capitalize on the shortcomings of the aforementioned server and strike while the iron's hot. Transparency will be a key factor in attracting these players. Deliverance will be what keeps them and the expectations and promises need to be fulfilled in order for this to come to fruition at all. Illegal roleplay shouldn't be prioritized by any means but it should be treated with the same amount of respect as legal roleplay and given the same opportunity of prosperity. Illegal roleplay has always been the foundation of LSRP but what made LSRP so consistent was its honesty, its openness and its lucidity. Transparency was always there one way or another.

 

One look at their faction's forum and you realize that their faction management team are driving people into LSRP's arms and for years it's gone unnoticed and unaddressed because their has been no alternative. You can forget about servers like LCRP making a wave because they're not battled tested like LSRP is and don't have the following LSRP do, coupled with the fact that their management are as corrupt as the day is long. All these make-shift beliefs and idealisms are used to lure people in but it's nothing more than a false pretense and a power grab. In other words, in certain communities if you don't agree with somebody's modus operandi, they will find a way to ban you, silence you or misinterpret you. On LSRP I believe that the number one priority should be to put the power in the player's hands. For this to overtake its competitors and scratch the surface it's got to recognize the flaws of communities that don't work. 

 

LSRP is genuinely the last hope for those interested in illegal roleplay. We need to do as much as we can to emphasize that and promote the fact that the community and management are receptive to that or we're back to square one. It's in all of our interests if we're on the same wave length.

 

All old community politics should be disregarded and the slate should be wiped clean. This will only work if we're all on the same page.

 

Make LSRP great again.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Chuckles

[nefarious bueller]

nuff said

[BorchertFieldFinest]

Totally agree with this opinion.

[Biskit]

Overall a worthwhile read. You've brought forward some key pros and cons from both the LS-RP and GTA:W servers, the only thing that I don't really see is what the end goal is for starting a thread like this except raising awareness in some sense which I do believe is common knowledge nowadays, people know about the problems that GTA:W has, the problems that LS-RP has and vice versa. I do believe that this is some sort of benevolence and that in general there was no ill will or depreciation for GTA:W in a sense from your point of view but I do think that at the same time some passionate people might take offense which is completely fine.

Both servers are in a league of their own. They have their negatives and positives like most other things. With that being said I don't think that we should indulge in retrospective of LS-RP's past cons in order to avail a positive result by changing them to pros simply because Grand Theft Auto V is new waters for a shark like LS-RP. I do believe that in general there are a lot of other great roleplay servers with their own respective great communities that some of our community members might view in a sense as competitors for LS-RP but at the end of the day I do believe that LS-RP isn't in general in competition at all and that isn't me being out of line by saying so, simply stating the fact that LS-RP is a home community for members who've spent years on it.

You've also covered the topic of staff corruption in a sense where you said;
 

1 hour ago, Chuckles said:

One look at their faction's forum and you realize that their faction management team are driving people into LSRP's arms and for years it's gone unnoticed and unaddressed because their has been no alternative. You can forget about servers like LCRP making a wave because they're not battled tested like LSRP is and don't have the following LSRP do, coupled with the fact that their management are as corrupt as the day is long. All these make-shift beliefs and idealisms are used to lure people in but it's nothing more than a false pretense and a power grab. In other words, in certain communities if you don't agree with somebody's modus operandi, they will find a way to ban you, silence you or misinterpret you. On LSRP I believe that the number one priority should be to put the power in the player's hands. For this to overtake its competitors and scratch the surface it's got to recognize the flaws of communities that don't work. 

And once again I do agree with you because you do bring up a very solid point but I do disagree in general with the idea of creating a thread with a big title like "Learn from GTAW's Mistakes" simply because I don't think that's right. I believe that in the long run we don't have a reason to comment on GTA:W's infrastructure or way of handling things from the perspective of us being LS-RP members. I'm more than sure that both the LS-RP and GTA:W management are doing their best in their own way and are more than aware of some of these problems that you've brought forward in this topic. And I do completely stand with you on that. But if there is some issue or faultiness to address about GTA:W, why do it on the LS-RP forum?

I do kind of guess that this thread serves its purpose for LS-RP community members to comment their own thoughts. I do also guess that you've created it so that key people who are able to make a change and avoid these bumps or bruises that you see that GTA:W is experiencing can see them in order for LS-RP not hitting them on their way up which is why I don't think you've meant to insult GTA:W in any way with this thread.

Overall if I got something wrong feel free to correct me, I was merely stating my own thoughts on the matter.

[$DrugLord$]

[Chuckles]

 

 

-

Edited November 14, 2021 by Chuckles
Accidental double post

[Chuckles]

2 hours ago, Biskit said:

Overall a worthwhile read. You've brought forward some key pros and cons from both the LS-RP and GTA:W servers, the only thing that I don't really see is what the end goal is for starting a thread like this except raising awareness in some sense which I do believe is common knowledge nowadays, people know about the problems that GTA:W has, the problems that LS-RP has and vice versa. I do believe that this is some sort of benevolence and that in general there was no ill will or depreciation for GTA:W in a sense from your point of view but I do think that at the same time some passionate people might take offense which is completely fine.

Both servers are in a league of their own. They have their negatives and positives like most other things. With that being said I don't think that we should indulge in retrospective of LS-RP's past cons in order to avail a positive result by changing them to pros simply because Grand Theft Auto V is new waters for a shark like LS-RP. I do believe that in general there are a lot of other great roleplay servers with their own respective great communities that some of our community members might view in a sense as competitors for LS-RP but at the end of the day I do believe that LS-RP isn't in general in competition at all and that isn't me being out of line by saying so, simply stating the fact that LS-RP is a home community for members who've spent years on it.

You've also covered the topic of staff corruption in a sense where you said;
LCRP

And once again I do agree with you because you do bring up a very solid point but I do disagree in general with the idea of creating a thread with a big title like "Learn from GTAW's Mistakes" simply because I don't think that's right. I believe that in the long run we don't have a reason to comment on GTA:W's infrastructure or way of handling things from the perspective of us being LS-RP members. I'm more than sure that both the LS-RP and GTA:W management are doing their best in their own way and are more than aware of some of these problems that you've brought forward in this topic. And I do completely stand with you on that. But if there is some issue or faultiness to address about GTA:W, why do it on the LS-RP forum?

I do kind of guess that this thread serves its purpose for LS-RP community members to comment their own thoughts. I do also guess that you've created it so that key people who are able to make a change and avoid these bumps or bruises that you see that GTA:W is experiencing can see them in order for LS-RP not hitting them on their way up which is why I don't think you've meant to insult GTA:W in any way with this thread.

Overall if I got something wrong feel free to correct me, I was merely stating my own thoughts on the matter.

 

 When a project is not yet live the only way you can do is dissect what worked and what didn't work from other communities. Reflecting on the actions of others helps put things into perspective and gives you, as management, an understanding of opinions. Not just opinions but the years worth of trial and error it went through. I don't know why you've managed to dilute the thread into a tug-of-war when the "end goal" is essentially to turn another community's known flaw into a strength. If we were members of any server past or present, we completely have a right to break down its deficiencies in an attempt to better them. This is the problem most people have and other communities in specific, they take any breakdown, criticism or comparison and turn it into an aggressiveness. As players of all of the servers we have the right to comparatively make a case for what we think worked and what we think didn't work. In this case, the illegal side of the server was completely neglected for years and it was never addressed. If you're not an illegal roleplayer, you wouldn't understand.

 

A quote I find applicable to the intent behind this thread is, "A smart man makes a mistake, learns from it, and never makes that mistake again. But a wise man finds a smart man and learns from him how to avoid the mistake altogether." One of the servers I mentioned is a well oiled machine, the other is not. You seem to have taken my argument out of context misquoted me by making a reference to GTAw when a completely different server (that hasn't launched) was referenced to emphasize that with poor decisions, a server won't even get off its feet. You can read the second line of the paragraph you quoted to get a better understanding of what without picking and choosing what to reference. Micromanagement and bureaucracy is behind the majority of these problems listed and like I said, this thread is in the interest of the server itself making the right choices. We've all got its best interests in mind.

 

Quote

 But if there is some issue or faultiness to address about GTA:W, why do it on the LS-RP forum?

 

Because this isn't about trying to fix another server's issue. This is about learning from another server's mistake. I don't know why you can't make the distinction between the two but the reason most of us are here is because diplomacy, dialogue and raising concern on most other servers don't work through either denial or a lack of respect and acknowledgement of our concerns. There is no malice behind the thread, it's simply in place to send the concerns up the corporate ladder. The concerns being that certain decisions have the possibility of ruining an entire project. Without cognizance, involvement and transparency then we are back to square one and will never secure consistency. The proof is in the pudding here for all to see as clear as day. Examples make statements clearer.

 

It's not about viewing people as "competitors," it's about taking the good from the bad and making it better. You, (I assume) as a legal roleplayer may not have no reason to comment on its shortcomings but a lot of us illegal roleplayers do and this is what puts us in a position to help better this server: through practical research and development our experiences are key to helping LSRPv figure out its blueprint.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Chuckles

[Anthony_Navarra]

2 hours ago, Biskit said:

Overall a worthwhile read. You've brought forward some key pros and cons from both the LS-RP and GTA:W servers, the only thing that I don't really see is what the end goal is for starting a thread like this except raising awareness in some sense which I do believe is common knowledge nowadays, people know about the problems that GTA:W has, the problems that LS-RP has and vice versa. I do believe that this is some sort of benevolence and that in general there was no ill will or depreciation for GTA:W in a sense from your point of view but I do think that at the same time some passionate people might take offense which is completely fine.

Both servers are in a league of their own. They have their negatives and positives like most other things. With that being said I don't think that we should indulge in retrospective of LS-RP's past cons in order to avail a positive result by changing them to pros simply because Grand Theft Auto V is new waters for a shark like LS-RP. I do believe that in general there are a lot of other great roleplay servers with their own respective great communities that some of our community members might view in a sense as competitors for LS-RP but at the end of the day I do believe that LS-RP isn't in general in competition at all and that isn't me being out of line by saying so, simply stating the fact that LS-RP is a home community for members who've spent years on it.

You've also covered the topic of staff corruption in a sense where you said;
 

And once again I do agree with you because you do bring up a very solid point but I do disagree in general with the idea of creating a thread with a big title like "Learn from GTAW's Mistakes" simply because I don't think that's right. I believe that in the long run we don't have a reason to comment on GTA:W's infrastructure or way of handling things from the perspective of us being LS-RP members. I'm more than sure that both the LS-RP and GTA:W management are doing their best in their own way and are more than aware of some of these problems that you've brought forward in this topic. And I do completely stand with you on that. But if there is some issue or faultiness to address about GTA:W, why do it on the LS-RP forum?

I do kind of guess that this thread serves its purpose for LS-RP community members to comment their own thoughts. I do also guess that you've created it so that key people who are able to make a change and avoid these bumps or bruises that you see that GTA:W is experiencing can see them in order for LS-RP not hitting them on their way up which is why I don't think you've meant to insult GTA:W in any way with this thread.

Overall if I got something wrong feel free to correct me, I was merely stating my own thoughts on the matter.

 

 

Looking at the only server that promotes heavy text based RP, and staying away from their mistakes doesn't mean you're discrediting it. You know that, right? It's basic common sense to compare to yourself to the only server that exists. 

 

I think GTA:W started out with the same intention as LS:RP. It wanted to promote heavy roleplay, and be the LS:RP of GTA V. They failed in doing so because they don't cater to illegal roleplayers, and the server in general is a utopia where crime is frowned upon. It's easy to get carried away on GTA V because of all the cosmetic options, so it's easy for a heavy rp server to turn into Sims 3. We don't want that on LS:RP, and what chuckles is trying to do is highlight that we never want to go down that path. He's highlighting GTA:W's mistakes to make sure that LS:RP doesn't end up like GTA:W. A server that promotes heavy rp, but doesn't do the sort. 

 

Highlighting someone's mistakes to better yourself is normal. You shouldn't try to discredit him for it. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Anthony_Navarra

[Biskit]

2 hours ago, Chuckles said:

When a project is not yet live the only way you can do is dissect what worked and what didn't work from other communities. Reflecting on the actions of others helps put things into perspective and gives you, as management, an understanding of opinions. Not just opinions but the years worth of trial and error it went through. I don't know why you've managed to dilute the thread into a tug-of-war when the "end goal" is essentially to turn another community's known flaw into a strength. If we were members of any server past or present, we completely have a right to break down its deficiencies in an attempt to better them. This is the problem most people have and other communities in specific, they take any breakdown, criticism or comparison and turn it into an aggressiveness. As players of all of the servers we have the right to comparatively make a case for what we think worked and what we think didn't work. In this case, the illegal side of the server was completely neglected for years and it was never addressed. If you're not an illegal roleplayer, you wouldn't understand.

 

A quote I find applicable to the intent behind this thread is, "A smart man makes a mistake, learns from it, and never makes that mistake again. But a wise man finds a smart man and learns from him how to avoid the mistake altogether." One of the servers I mentioned is a well oiled machine, the other is not. You seem to have taken my argument out of context misquoted me by making a reference to GTAw when a completely different server (that hasn't launched) was referenced to emphasize that with poor decisions, a server won't even get off its feet. You can read the second line of the paragraph you quoted to get a better understanding of what without picking and choosing what to reference. Micromanagement and bureaucracy is behind the majority of these problems listed and like I said, this thread is in the interest of the server itself making the right choices. We've all got its best interests in mind.

Ah seems I misunderstood some elements of the post but overall you did make it clearer and I'm definitely keen to agree with you after getting a better understanding for it. I am however an illegal roleplayer and understand where you're coming from. In general I haven't really been ever a member of GTA:W or the other server that hasn't launched so I was giving an opinion from the perspective of someone who hasn't really experienced things from their end of the rope. My only real reference is from word of mouth and forums.

I still stand by what I've wrote in my first post about definitely being with you on the topic because I do indefinitely see the value of the things brought forward to the attention of the community. I never meant to discredit you like Anthony might've thought but if I came across in that way then that's definitely my bad.

Overall I'm pretty sure that LS-RP being the behemoth it was on SAMP can tackle things objectively and that majority of the things won't be a problem or seen to arise here. I'm sure that LS-RP will experience growth in terms of playerbase seeing that GTA V is more popular than SAMP and that the influx of these new players might bring different roleplay to it but however at the end of the day even those newcomers will eventually have to adjust to the way LS-RP functions. The reason I think that is because it is an already pre-established community where things like how heavy the roleplay, faction leading whether legal or illegal & similar other things are common knowledge by now.

[Chuckles]

Ah, yeah. Then having only played LSRP is probably why you haven't came into contact with any of the idiosyncrasies we've pointed out. But I assure you if you did you'd understand the context behind the post. Thanks for the contribution and the discussion nonetheless. This is what I've hoped to spark after all.

 

[Thunderbolt]

Well said

[Stormbird]

Whilst there are some valid points here from the OP but I think there's a lot of room for improvements on both sides. Having said that I also think there's a lot of band-wagoning going on and honestly, I find it hypocritical and kind of sad tbh because I have an inkling that perhaps some of people in this thread were probably the ones constantly saying "LSRP is dead, they're too late to have a GTAV server, move on." just a few months ago lol

 

Don't get me wrong though, some competition for GTAW will do wonders for both servers and I'm certainly looking forward to having other options.

Edited November 14, 2021 by Stormbird

[Benavides]

We have to keep in mind that LS-RP is not a fresh community, neither an up and coming server. There's collectively a mass amount of material left over from the numerous years of activity in the community, including but not limited to: illegal role-play guides, role-play culture, procedure and policy regarding handling staff reports & player reports, faction reports and anything else you can think of.

 

While I understand the context of the thread and the goal after giving it a close read, it is easy to get the wrong message, given you start with mentioning a different community and what they've been doing wrong. If you compare the examples you've brought up from other communities, with what we've been doing on LS-RP, I'd say we were pretty competent in those areas.

 

There are lot of competent faction leaders in the faction section, and I can only hope that they will be able to point out anything we have been doing wrong in the past in our community. We currently have a Faction Team discord server with the goal of achieving exactly what you've described.

 

I believe it would be more productive for us to look into any possible mistakes the community has made in the past, rather than looking at other communities that have made mistakes in areas where LS-RP was successful.

 

[Spades]

I love this. Great read, and it stands true.

[Ronnie2Polez]

-------------- nvm

 

Edited February 20, 2022 by Ronnie2Polez
-------------- nvm