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Everything posted by Apophis

  1. Yooooo what's up dude. BBB v Hoover right? I loved them brawls
  2. please for the love of fuck establish little seoul ICly as little asia. fly high domavongs
  3. Retweet but like 5 other servers did this and it's the biggest circle jerk ever. tbh does anybody who's 500+ hours in LS:RP not know who you are? i kind of feel like your name alone carries more weight than any color or tag could ever apply to it
  4. if you know you know LMAO it's a cool suggestion valentine but Bluman is totally right.
  5. I think it was around 2016, that I was first allowed to test a new script in a leadership capacity. Bare in mind, this was well before any of us had read the writing on the wall, and we were still rosy cheeked enough to legitimately believe that this was going to be the first addition of many, certifying Mmartin as a capable lead developer. I don't think Bay Area had happened yet, and GTA:W / GTA:5 roleplay was little more than quiet whispers in Skype calls. When I look at the current state of affairs, I'm brought back to those moments. Broken promises, missed deadlines, empty reassurances, and little regard for the brunt that the rest of staff had to bear for all of it. Reading admin posts is like looking in a mirror. The blind defense of a man who really doesn't give a fuck about you or anything else is something you'll really only ever understand when you're sitting in that seat. If I had to guess, it comes from a place of passion for the game. If I had to warrant another, the snarky attitude is misplaced frustration with Mmartin. Trust me, they know. They hate him too. I think it's plainly obvious that everybody still here is here for a love of the game, and a love for the community. If you would spare me just a moment of your time, I'd ask you to really think about what made LS:RP what it was. What is it you loved, what made it fun, what kept you coming back for more? If I could dare to get even more abstract: what was LS:RP? • LS:RP was us. You, me, and every other person who made a contribution to this game. Every administrator, every tester, every player, every faction, and every shred of effort that a group of likeminded, infinitely creative and impassioned players and friends alike had made across 12+ years. LS:RP was the community, and the infinite potential every one of us saw that the game could be, and came together with our combined imaginations to make it so. Feel free to disagree individually with any of my points, but I guarantee you every single one of them is a cherished memory to somebody here: • LS:RP was staying up till 3:00a.m with your friends, making a faction thread for the sheer fun of it; • LS:RP was Chete's MS13, revolutionizing the concept of factions, introducing hundreds of us to gang role play (including myself); • LS:RP was pioneers of inventive types of role play, like Shah of Persia, and R. Hout, who never stopped pushing the limit on exploring new concepts; • LS:RP was incredible individual character stories, curated on the screenshots & videos forum as a quiet time capsule of days past; • LS:RP was logging onto stunting servers / dm servers during server outages, or settling Skype arguments on that one server (for the life of me I can't remember the name! Koky's?); • LS:RP was the infinite contributions of people like Westside and Obsessi0n, who otherwise pushed the boundaries on individual characters and gang quality; • LS:RP was the infinitely deep, and infinitely static LCN scene, baring no greater sense of passion from a group of players on any game I've ever seen before; • LS:RP was the individual contributions of testers at the crack of dawn, hammering the last of the applications down after a particularly busy night; • LS:RP was walking into Meathead's Deli for the first time in 2014 and being introduced to casual, passive role play for the first time, and falling in love with it whilst Bob Seger blares over that 181.fm station; • LS:RP was midnight conversations with Bospy, Pitchounette and KaylaSpace, discussing what our dream FBI faction would be; • LS:RP was every internal gang war. Finding out that Nova died still gives me goosebumps, or having Icey retaliate for ColossalBQ CKing me; • LS:RP was figuring out how the hell to install IRC for the first time, when you got tester; • LS:RP was Teamspeak fights about the direction of your faction and where it should move forward. I never got to apologize to iJoker and I regret it; • LS:RP was the transition between ENB to the "elite" grime era of screenshots; • LS:RP was getting caught behind the Ganton blue projects with your gun stash by a pair of prying eyes, and logging off pissed off because you know the rest of your week is SACF; • LS:RP was the 2014-2016 era casinos. Companies like Roux and BION are still firmly branded into my brain; • LS:RP was learning about the mechanic paycheck in the county, and beating yourself up over the 50 hours you played without it; • LS:RP was seeing the name "Settlemire" (I think?) in the distance and pissing your pants in Skype about the incoming casefile; • LS:RP was the transition towards "grime" role play, focusing on drug dependency and mental illness, racism and other uncomfortable topics, pioneered by factions like Peddlers of Death; • LS:RP was the Iraq War level gang conflicts between factions like Beasley & Associates (love u Damaz), Crenshaw, Hoover, WGS18, ViperZ, EHC, and the thousand other factions I'm woefully forgetting as I write this; • LS:RP was the individual contribution of every administrator who took time out of their day to contribute to something they loved; • LS:RP was the individual contribution of every tester, every forum moderator, and every subteam member who worked to help make the community what it was; • LS:RP was the individual contribution of every faction leader, every member of FMP, and every player who worked to build their faction and make a permanent mark on the server; • LS:RP was long lasting friendships. I still play games with Surreal on a regular basis; LS:RP was us. I'm not putting my neck out to burn a bridge. Believe me, I love this game as much as any of you do. I'm not trying to shit on anybody, but I'm simply asking you to heed my warning: don't commit to something and blindly defend it because it's name is attached to something that you love. Their is very fair criticism to be had on the matter, and I'm asking you to place it correctly. Kane, Bennemus, and whoever are easy to direct your frustrations at because they respond. Don't let them be another lightning rod. We caught enough for him.
  6. Apophis


    I put 900 hours into Rust in like 6 months lol. We out here chasing dreams and hitting beams baby i promise you don't. it's either the most painful, miserable experience, or it'll consume your entire life. there is no in between with Rust.
  7. All script jobs should be tangential to other systems and/or provide some sort of good or service to other players. Trucking being used to stock businesses is probably the most linear example I can think of for this. GTA:W has an issue with encouraging players to use taxis: being able to teleport your car to yourself, respawning wherever you had logged off, and being able to dependably teleport between properties you own more or less makes it completely worthless to ever use a taxi outside of rare occurrences and/or role play. You sort of have to strike the balance between something being a pain in the ass (stocking your own business, running 15 minutes to go get your car) and compensating players to provide that service to others. I know I keep drawing a lot of parallels to GTA:W but it's my only experience with GTA5. Their business paycheck system is literally genius and it allows players to actually role play instead of doing these god awful fucking script jobs. Seriously: please do this.
  8. I more than probably anybody else doubted the ability to transition GTA Roleplay into the GTA5 format. After messing around with RAGE for awhile I can absolutely assure you that at the bare minimum, emulating LSRP is possible on this platform. I think even the most staunch die-hards who refuse to make the switch will admit that RAGE / GTA5s features are leagues ahead of SA-MP. Shit, compare SA-MP to MTA. MTA was on the same platform and while I'm no developer, it still seemed vastly superior in terms of tech. SA-MP really wasn't that impressive, the communities were.
  9. From a staff perspective: are you still using the memorable word and hint? That was fucking garbage and it caused a thousand problems for every account it helped us recover.
  10. Would be absolutely floored if this wasn't an option. Businesses are no longer a plus to enhance a good faction's roleplay. They're a requirement.
  11. Hard retweet. A lot of the 2014 population that people often refer to as the "golden era" were attracted to LS:RP in large groups from other servers.
  12. Me and the boys were exploring the fighting mechanics to see if doing fighting leagues that maintain some semblance of competitiveness is viable (like it was in SA). A lot of these things can be handled through IC companies / players themselves, it largely falls to allocating the resources needed to make it possible. Access to interiors, vehicles, property locations, and some form of financial compensation (similar to how world does business openings) when requested in a timely fashion will make these things handle themselves.
  13. I'm not skilled enough to handle that jump in power. I trained on like, a 200CC bike. Jumping to a 1200 sounds like an efficient way for me to repaint a highway. I'm not going to, buy I could get a Rebel brand new for like five flat. They seem to hold value decent and I've only ever heard good things, regardless of year. I could probably cop one for two and five which is more than doable.
  14. We couldn't on LS:RP either, though. GTA:W restricts them and I think it's the dumbest shit ever. I can't make a character without them looking like an oblivion custom character with the sliders dialed way the fuck up. Even if I follow a guide I always end up with my attempts at Eazy-E looking like fucking Cruella Deville
  15. I'm looking at a Honda Rebel 500 for a starter bike. I've always wanted an Indian Scout, but the idea of buying a $12,000 bike I'm absolutely going to drop is the opposite of what everyone's telling me to do. but fellas... she calls my name... ho maddone...
  16. Devil's advocate: marijuana being illegal opens up an avenue for criminal interaction with gangs for more role players. Even if it only amounts to street purchases, it creates activity for both parties, and at least in my opinion, these interactions are more interesting than being able to simply access it. Your average users (a good portion of OC role players, civilians, hell even off-duty cops) have no reason to buy any hard drugs, but giving them something they can role play around while maintaining proper character consistency gives them a reason to go and buy drugs. Realistically speaking, you're completely right. That being said, exploring the issue from the lens of game design offers an interesting argument, at least in my opinion. What about a medical license approach? This opens up two completely separate illegal markets (growers, illegal reselling of medicinal), would justify marijuana graphics and storefronts, and would allow some form of LSPD / LSFD(?) oversight.
  17. I'm responding to this entire post directly as I don't think I could physically disagree with everything you've said more. Also I had this pre-written and the forums ate my post, so I'm dashing this out fast. I'm not editing this as I can't be fucked to do it twice. I've already wasted enough time writing it. Apologies for the wall of text, I have COVID and literally nothing better to do. Mechanic paychecks in no way promote role play, in any form. How are hourly paychecks an acceptable parallel to the financial incentives that existed in legal/illegal role play, who also have access to them? Players would be motivated to remain within factions and role play around guns / drugs as those assets very literally translated to a form of income (especially pre drug nerf). Why do you think players PF abused, for the thrill? They did it because it made money. Players will role play in businesses because it makes money. The script in question is designed to be an alternative to script jobs. It creates passive role play for the entire community with the opening of businesses, it rewards players for taking an active role, and it helps teach them the fundamentals of role play. This provides a solution to the fucking miserable new player experience which boiled down to "wait an unreasonable amount of time before you have literally anything, or drive a truck around like a complete dickhead and make peanuts." This would be beneficial to everybody. I very literally don't see a single argument for how this could possibly be a bad thing. I can assure you that in my 6,000+ hours playing exclusively in an administrative capacity, speccing players, and specifically being tasked by management to explore the functionality of script jobs, I have never once seen a legitimate illegal role player drive a truck. I could drive to Donald Scarpa's house and put a gun to his head and I don't think I could get him to do a single malt run. This doesn't happen. The only job that I've ever seen illegal role players use is mechanic. The same script that you're criticizing in your previous point directly remedies the problem that you're pointing out here. It removes a significant burden from the business owners and promotes businesses opening consistently. I fail to see how any of this is a bad thing. This is just a bizarre, inappropriate jump to conclusion that is completely devoid of any truth. If you apply the same logic to any other script it falls flat. Should the /me command be removed as it's ripe for abuse? Why release the server if it's going to enable players to troll and dm? This is why LS:RP and every other role play server on pretty much any game has a standing staff team. This is the direct purpose of having a staff that logs in-game and actively moderates. All scripts can be abused in some form. This isn't exclusive to what we're discussing. The "image" that civilian role players harbor is entirely in your head. That's the perception of them that your experiences have fostered. You saying they're "associated mostly with mall rats" or people who "can't roleplay, who just want to provoke" is simply inflammatory and isn't grounded in reality. I'm sorry that you've had bad personal experiences but in no way is this reflective of literally the most thematically diverse group of players on the server. Employing scripting in any way isn't going to change this. I'd also like to point out what we're also referencing things that are outside of scripting (i.e. community initiatives). Remember when you first logged on, and you weren't aware of the mechanic job? Do you remember another player telling you about passive income, and you only had to have the mechanic job to get it? Do you remember having them take you to Blueberry and show you where it is, so you could get it? Does this sound like the basis of a functioning, planned economy to you? The mechanic job was designed in 2009-2010 to the best of my recollection, well before anybody on LS:RP starting taking role play seriously. The passive $1,250 is a remnant of a bygone era, scripted for a community that looks nothing like it does today. It wasn't designed to be role play income. It wasn't really designed for anything, and heralding it as the solution to these problems is incredibly short sighted. The only real reason that mechanic paychecks and savings existed is that LS:RPs economy was complete fucking garbage (read: nonexistent). They were a solution of convenience, as ripping the economic backbone out of a twelve year old project was well beyond the experience of management and development. Why are you so intent on maintaining a script realistically should have zero relevance today? Assuming you're asking for something similar to the LS:RP script, you are very literally asking players to play 1,000+ in electronic squalor for a taste of financial security. None of this promotes role play, it promotes time investment. I'm not explicitly talking about these sort of quasi-minigame scripts, but I find it staggering that you have a problem with them. People went ape shit over poker when it came out, and while I'll admit that it didn't exactly provide riveting role play, I don't understand how giving players things to do is a bad thing. If they added golf I think I would spend 90% of my time playing it / role playing around it. Tennis too. That sounds great. LS:RP always had a problem with interest in NPC role play. The best example I can think of: when was the last time somebody role played stealing a phone during a robbery? Why the fuck would you? Offering players something tangible (i.e. item scripts) provides players with something more than a non-committal line of text to back up what they're doing. I'm not asking for development to shit up the map with a bunch of minigames and circus fanfare. Re-read the original post, you're jumping to insane conclusions again. a. This post is equating all of civilian role play to a small minority of civilian role players who existed on LS:RP. Again, re-read the original post. The landscape has changed. Criminal role players are the minority on GTA 5. Thousands of civilian role players exist who aren't ROZE. GTA RP exists outside of LS:RP. b. I was the lead admin who directly dealt with ROZE as they fell under my purview for businesses when they were just a player. In the latter half of my tenure, I frankly stopped giving a fuck about the the communities perception of certain player's quality when they consistently showed that they were trying their absolute best. This line of thinking is exactly what I'm talking about when I say that players are too stone-headed to realize that role play exists outside of the LS:RP cops and robbers meta. The fact that you don't accept that ROZE, Valentine or Saunders would have deserved even a shred of recognition from staff and the support to excel in what they do is the best example I can find of LS:RPs outdated approach to factions fundamentally fucking up people's perception of role play. It is incredible how fast you made my point for me. I'm not trying to be rude, but I seriously don't understand this paragraph in response to the theme of the thread. Can you reword this so I can respond to it, please? "Elite civilian role play" conceptually doesn't exist, nor is it an elitist troupe of sequestered aristocrats who lord over the other non-criminals like they're trying to reenact a Bohemian Grove meeting. It also isn't a gaggle of real life Melvins sitting in an interior and talking to each other OOCly. It is an overarching theme that realistically encompasses every character in some way. I don't think drawing allusions towards legal/illegal role play really works in this context. I'm asking them to do literally anything other than nothing. Civilian role play has had exactly zero representatives and zero focus since 2008. It very literally hasn't ever been considered by staff in any form outside of businesses and companies, the former being largely auxiliary to illegals, the latter coming out far too late. I am aware of this as during my tenure as staff, I believe only I and maybe a handful of others ever gave a shit about civilians. In the climate of 2022 GTA RP, this is no longer sustainable. That is the purpose of this thread. I've role played exclusively criminal and criminal auxiliary characters. This thread isn't me asking for special attention for myself and people who role play like me. This is me bringing up that a large market of GTA 5 RP isn't something that LS:RP has ever dealt with in a large capacity before, and if they intend for the server to be financially prosperous (protip: they do), leaving that market entirely untapped may not be possible. By "scripts," I mean literally a handful of scripts above zero. By "administration," I mean a point of contact. I'm asking that the thing that every other facet of the server has also be applied to a potential market of hundreds of players (read: customers). "Civilian" incentives largely benefit everybody regardless. I don't see why you have a problem with it. You understand that even though you're in X criminal faction, you can still benefit from dynamic business map markers and item creation scripts, right?
  18. Is this a viable strategy? The conditions that you're competing with that I listed in my original post are going to be an ever present force on a supposed minority player base. Considering the skew in the server's population towards legal role players, it seems like a dangerous gamble to assume that the allure of better scripting and different leadership is going to be enough to not only convince your target minority demo to cross the road, but to keep them engaged in the face of what'll be a total reset for them? I think this issue compounds further with players in established factions that are going to levy the burden of losing positions and relationships with players who don't want to switch, or are otherwise not a candidate for their position on LS:RP that they otherwise already have (i.e. LEO factions). You are not going to siphon everybody, and from what I've gathered speaking to individuals, I don't think it's possible to simply refuse to engage with the civilian "second life" population because you or I disagree with their approach to role play. There just isn't enough of us. Responding to both you and Yekim, I can confirm that from what I've witnessed, the perception of gang role play is staggeringly different on GTA:W, and a minority of players look at African American / Latin gang role play with anything other than complete disdain. Think of the robberies argument on LS:RP except exponentially worse. That being said, from my point of view, these issues would need to be resolved in order for LS:RP to be successful, and identifying individual problems like Yekim had, along with realistic, implementable solutions needs to be done sooner rather than later. I don't mean to sound rude, but feel-good posts about how civilian role play will be "extremely good" without offering either evidence to support your claim such as planned implementations or individual ideas on how to accommodate these players lack any substance whatsoever. "Experience" is irrelevant if you don't apply it, and the purpose of the thread is to discuss said application. This was a major fuckup on LS:RP and it shouldn't be repeated. This was the result of an outdated faction selection system that in no way supported legal role play outside of LEOs. I think the most obvious example of this failure is that people in this thread, right now are mixing up the terminology and lumping in civilian role play with legal role play while others are communicating with the terms separate. You can implement individual features to promote businesses and civilian role play without immediately reverting to a copy of the faction system. Natasha_Valentine, knppel and ROZE deserved some form of official support for the civilian role play they engaged in and I voiced this several times to the chagrin of literally every other administrator, but because the rigid structure of the faction system did not accommodate anything outside of the C&R meta, people were simply unwilling to admit that after ten years of effort, they've earned something. The mentality we held of "if it doesn't reach my idea of official faction quality, it deserves nothing" is outdated and elitist. The company system remedied this, but was far too little, far too late. I would go as far to say that a good amount of the complaints I've heard about either of the players mentioned would have been remedied if we didn't just tell them to fuck off and figure it out on their own 90% of the time. The script is only better if the script is better. RAGE:MP affords more liberty to development but I'm asking how should the script along with the community be steered to help accommodate these players. For reference: Legal role play is the antithesis of illegal. It refers to factions that operate as law related agencies (LEO factions, gov, courts, arguably lawyers). Civilian is anything outside of this relationship. You may or may not be right, that's really up for time to tell. I'm moreso talking about what incentives LS:RP can offer to retain these players. You're definitely on point about the nonsense, though. I've seen players on both sides of the argument pound keyboards until their fingers were raw about either side. I agree completely. I would happily sit in a Discord call for hours on end, complaining about GTA:Ws information conveyance and staggeringly non intuitive commands, but in the same breath I'd be doing them a disservice if I didn't say the ad system, map markers, static points, and business payment script / business item creation script weren't all fantastic. In the spirit of this thread: LS:RP really should be observing the cause and effect relationships with some of these features and considering similar implementations if they aren't already. An idea that I toyed with in the past was creating administrative ran factions that would offer payment in return for role play, sort of like public utilities. GTA:W has automated this function with biz rp payments and it is very literally my favorite piece of GTA RP scripting. LS:RP offered pretty much nothing in the way of a legal income outside of trucking (which I would rather be dead than do). Something like this should definitely be mirrored in my personal opinion. You make a fair argument. I'm drawing a lot of parallels to the other community as they're my only real experience in the GTA 5 environment, and are the most similar to LS:RP. I know that both communities objectively will not take the same route / approach to a significant number of issues, but I think the situation LS:RP is in now very literally parallels 2008 GTA:SA. They've laid down a significant foundation and which simply translates to free market research. I agree about script incentives.
  19. LS:RP, originally being an edit of the Godfather, was from it's core a complicated form of cops and robbers role play. While many players found different avenues to create and play as characters with varying success outside of this meta, there is no denying that the root of the game, the majority of the player base, and the systems created to facilitate role play were all centered around law enforcement and criminal factions respectively. If you're looking for success, I believe it's important to reconcile that the GTA RP landscape seems to've changed. While I won't explicitly criticize or promote the community in saying this: I find it funny when people rail against certain systems GTA:W uses, a frequent highlight being the lack of focus the overall community has on illegal factions. With what I've observed through admittedly a low amount of play (about ~100-150 hours), I think a hard pill that many of the old guard players refuse to swallow is that you are not the majority demographic anymore. While a good amount of LS:RP players had made the trip to GTA:W, I've noticed through Discord hopping and communicating with players that a majority of them stem from more social role playing games, many of which I'd say are hardly compatible with the LS:RP C&R format. GTA:W seems to deliberately cater to these players, and rightfully so. The expectation that illegal / old guard role players should be center stage is a remnant of the attitude of old LS:RP. Frankly put: I fully believe that in order to be competitive in the market, the former approach of leaving these players to their own devices simply is no longer possible. The largest takeaway I have from my theory is that players beget players. I don't think it's reasonable to expect LS:RP to be competitive in the market if the primary goal is to simply bring the old community into the new platform. The remaining veterans aren't going to make the switch if the player counts are glaringly in favor of the communities they're already in, and the opposite demo won't make the switch unless they're compelled with very good reasoning. In both cases, you'd be asking many players to abandon relationships with the server, factions, characters, other players, assets and potentially thousands of hours of progress and whatever else that progress may entail. I think it's become far too trendy to blindly criticize GTA:W. Don't get me wrong, I have the same problems with it that you do. That being said, I've been preaching for quite some time that, while yes I think true that the community objectively has some problems, simply dismissing every idea out of Nervous' head as bad is an overly elitist, unrealistic line of thinking. Truthfully, some of the scripts regarding businesses, dynamic item creation, map markers, and static info points are downright genius, and very literally go above and beyond facilitating role play, particularly for civilian role players. In short: how does LS:RP compete with other communities in this area, which has specifically been sidelined for years and which the community may be woefully underequipped to handle?
  20. In practically all fictitious environments, creating an economy is analogous to building a boat: you can put any amount of effort into insuring a system of checks and balances towards some desired result, but ultimately without consistent intervention it will fail the test of time at some point. Pretty much every major MMO publishing game studio has struggled with this exact problem at some point during a game's lifetime. Simply put: as time progresses, the ability to control an in-game economy diminishes. Asking for a "realistic economy" will require very strict defined parameters and an acceptance that unintended consequences are impossible to avoid. The most obvious example of this that I can think of is house location pricing. It was very apparent when we were handling auctions on LS:RP that house prices would always be subject to out of character influence which would destroy people's concept of "realism." Houses that in any other environment should be considered low-budget would be priced alongside mansions because of roleplay appeal, and even these discrepancies could be spiked or plateaued based on a faction opening or closure, and likewise who was in said factions. With a limited supply, it simply was not feasible to control it, and the ratio between full houses in "ghetto" areas and mansions between GTA:SA and GTA 5 seems significantly worse. Houses are a useful anchor point for the value of your dollar, but managing things gets even more difficult when trying to moderate the price of drugs and weapons, particularly when trying to enforce some level of roleplay associated with either. You're essentially juggling an asset with extreme demand and low supply, and an asset with extreme supply and low demand, while trying to maintain some semblance of realism. More or less, what I'm trying to say is don't get your hopes up. Although it'd be easy to criticize, I can assure you that any perceived problems with the economy are largely outside of anybody's control outside of development, and even then after a year or two, the state of the dollar is pretty much a gamble. It can be influenced sure, but whether you'll be sinking or swimming is really up to time.
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