Use of Weapons (Legal or Illegal)

[Uncanny]

3 minutes ago, SCANDALOUZ said:

 

Good luck.

 

Last time I suggested some form of role play quality control people said that this is subjective as hell and who is anyone to tell anyone what is quality and what isn't. Staff also said that staff is already doing their job in punishing non-rpers.

I believe the quality control should be divided by the Staff and faction leaders. I'll throw a rock in the gang roleplay.

As of now, street gang roleplayers are saying they need more modded neighbourhoods for their roleplay, because they do not fit in this map (The map is way bigger than San Andreas, but somehow we do not fit? Questionable). I see this as searching for a problem, where there isn't one. At this moment, we have around 11 street gangs, ranging both between african-americans and mexicans (talking more about the South Los Santos). The sole reason, why gangs do not fit is because they are creating them left and right.
Let's be fair here, we have only 2 or 3 good gang factions, why not join them, learn the ropes and roleplay with that. If we would make just 4 or 5 good quality, big gang factions, the turf of these gangs could expand, more cliques of these factions could be created while under one umbrella. Problem solved. Additionally, people could learn from the more experienced roleplayers and become them in the future, hence the 'shootout mentality' could be demolished from the inside.

 

For those, who'll come and say, 'me and my friends wanted to roleplay together so we created a gang' - that's an excuse. Join an already existing gang, roleplay with them, develop and if the faction becomes big, you can create your own clique and roleplay with your friends. For now, it seems like people have DM mentality and are creating gangs to hide their true intentions. If you want to roleplay, for example, in Forum Drive - join the gang that exists there and don't create new faction right besides the existing one. They are DMers? Relocate and join a better faction - your roleplay shouldn't be limited because you dreadfully want to be in one place of the map, this only shows that you don't want to roleplay, but perhaps you're seeking a way to conflict with others as you'll be creating rival gang right besides their front step (which doesn't look realistic, a gang expanding their turf into yours - that's realistic).
 

 

When it comes to weapons, I agree with the statement above, that before you sell any weapons, you should be wary to whom you're selling them. Realistically speaking, the weapons you sell to others could easily be turned against you, so selling your weapons only for profit doesn't make sense, in my opinion.

[Tungsten]

46 minutes ago, Uncanny said:

I believe it has something to do with mentality of people. If the mentality can't be changed, nothing will change no matter how much you punish people. I see a lot of people, basing their 'shooting roleplay' on real life scenarios, especially USA. People flock to the media and take away only the extremity cases - someone punches another person and he gets shot. Quite frankly, a lot of people base their roleplay by that, but it just doesn't make sense. If you're so weak mentally in real life that you can't take an insult in-game, you shouldn't play the game. As of now, some insults or brawls are like green lights for people just to hunt down others and DM. The aspect of possibility to roleplay some conflict is getting demolished by said mentality. I am speaking from illegal faction perspective - believe me, it is hectic as hell, not a lot of space to roleplay a conflict between factions, because majority of the time, you'll probably get shot instantly if you'll try to initiate some kind of brawl (I'm all for punching each other and roleplaying that than instantly go for AKs and wiping all of your opponents).

 

If we Force CK characters of DMers, they'll just create another character and grind out the levels so either they can rob, shoot or buy PF - that's the reality of the system. With prisons, people will automatically create another character for their endeavors as from the start they aren't here to roleplay.

 

That would be mine cookie in this conversation.

 

Perhaps the way to solve the problem of habitual addicts to shooting would be an OOC method for admins to "ban" a person from having a gun. This way they can be encouraged to explore other methods of roleplay that don't involve guns.

 

Something like
-- person tries to buy a gun on the street

-- tries to pick it up

-- error message shows up: (( You are currently under an OOC weapons restriction and cannot pick up this weapon. ))

 

 

3 minutes ago, JesterJr said:

It's weird to get that feedback on Quality Control. 

 

It shouldn't be enforced in form of rules. But more like consultation to go in line with the servers standards. 

 

It should base itself around what the server expects, where the server aims to be and how the server operates.

 

I believe that having some quality checks when necessary on players who might seem controversial might even keep them in the server instead of throwing the ajail hammer and get them punished. 

 

To this point, sometimes the best way to train someone in a preferred method is Negative Conditioning. If players figure out that drawing down on cops when surrounded leads to losing their character, they might do it once or twice before they eventually rethink how they approach the situation. People will bitch and moan for a while until they figure out how things work and roleplay will improve.

[JesterJr]

17 hours ago, Tungsten said:

To this point, sometimes the best way to train someone in a preferred method is Negative Conditioning. If players figure out that drawing down on cops when surrounded leads to losing their character, they might do it once or twice before they eventually rethink how they approach the situation. People will bitch and moan for a while until they figure out how things work and roleplay will improve.

I do not think, at the current state of the server this is the way to solve the problem. There needs to be some education to the newer players from the older ones who want the good out of the server.

 

A good idea is what @Uncanny mentioned earlier.

We shouldn't have 10 illegal gangs around who spread the gang mentality in their own way, which some times might be good but during many occurrences people are not experienced enough to even run a faction. I'd prefer if we had 2-3 big gangs (with the numbers we currently have in LSRP), have the old people teach the ropes to our newer players which will also give them a better understanding of the Roleplay idea and also how gangs/organized crime works.

I remember when I first started RPing, I found a legal faction to join (back in SAMP LSRP it was Reg's Truckers Association) and through there I was introduced to the MC roleplay from the White Devil's MC who used to run Blueberry back then. It was a great experience that old fashioned RPers showed me how SAMP RP works through RP. It made me the solid member I currently am and actually gave me the chill vibes LSRP always had when it comes to RP without guns & drugs. Even though it was a 1%er MC, they'd legit chill and eat pizza or have fun by creating a good RP hub in BBerry. Then it was also the Road Slayers back then who rocked in Montgomery and provided some great roleplay experience.

 

What I am saying is that we should have Quality Control over our Factions who dictate the roleplay portrayed in the server and the general image. Clean out the weeds from our garden and keep our flowers. Like that, we'll get a better image to the public, players will come and stay if they get affiliated with a serious faction and they will not be taught how to DM and bypass rules to troll for as long as they can till they're caught.

 

At least that's what worked for me.

[Mikey]

19 hours ago, SCANDALOUZ said:

To add on, before someone says we are just mall rats bashing on illegal roleplay.

 

Get a reality check, the world isn't black and white and being an illegal character doesn't mean you have to be in a shootout or a police pursuit 24/7.

 

I roleplay around Vinewood. The place is all OCGs and ALL criminals. The only shootings we get are when some trigger happy "gangster" comes along.

 

We all, or for the most part, have crystal clean criminal records as well. Major Crimes are breathing down people's necks, but yeah.

 

My character is criminal as fuck. And he just shook hands with the Chief of Police last week.

 

This is illegal roleplay. The smart and lowkey criminals chill out in the world. The dumb ones are in prison or dead. In LSRP - the dumb criminals just respawn and go right back to being dumb criminals. Something wrong with that picture.

The issue is that people keep complaining about Davis being a shithole and everybody shooting it up 24/7 but also the same people want less police presence in the same areas and instead want more OOC restrictions and OOC punishments.

 

Start asking police factions to go down harder on criminals in those areas and you will see a drastic decrease in random shootings and generally stupid behavior.

 

This way you keep it IC, you let everybody play and you don't implement useless OOC rules.

[JesterJr]

5 minutes ago, Mikey said:

The issue is that people keep complaining about Davis being a shithole and everybody shooting it up 24/7 but also the same people want less police presence in the same areas and instead want more OOC restrictions and OOC punishments.

 

Start asking police factions to go down harder on criminals in those areas and you will see a drastic decrease in random shootings and generally stupid behavior.

 

This way you keep it IC, you let everybody play and you don't implement useless OOC rules.

I'll have to disagree here. Enforcing IC presence and constant patrol in these areas cuts any chance of the "serious" people to properly develop their gangs and their presence in the area.

 

I believe what we need is a funnel for the Factions. Keep the shiny ones who know how to properly represent such a set - same like we do for our legal factions. Why legal factions have to go through RP tests, English knowledge and training on how to properly roleplay a peace officer in the US?

 

Same thing should somewhat happen with the illegal factions. Streamline the illegal players, have new players join illegal factions that are somewhat checked/approved by our FM and get those factions to show them the ropes.

 

I'm pretty sure that no real gang member will come in this topic and say that gang members should shoot cops over petty reasons or shoot a rival gang and incite a gang war over a simple brawl or verbal assault/confrontation.

 

I believe we don't need IC strict punishment on criminal RPers cause that will turn around and bite us. What we need is education and guidance. Then those who don't follow the mindset can always reconsider their spot in here.

Edited August 3, 2023 by JesterJr

[Mikey]

1 minute ago, JesterJr said:

I'll have to disagree here. Enforcing IC presence and constant patrol in these areas cuts any chance of the "serious" people to properly develop their gangs and their presence in the area.

 

I believe what we need is a funnel for the Factions. Keep the shiny ones who know how to properly represent such a set - same like we do for our legal factions. Why legal factions have to go through RP tests, English knowledge and training on how to properly roleplay a peace officer in the US?

 

Same thing should somewhat happen with the illegal factions. Streamline the illegal players, have new players join illegal factions that are somewhat checked/approved by our FM and get those factions to show them the ropes.

 

I'm pretty sure that no real gang member will come in this topic and say that gang members should shoot cops over petty reasons or shoot a rival gang and incite a gang war over a simple brawl or verbal assault/confrontation.

 

I believe we don't need IC strict punishment on criminal RPers cause that will turn around and bite us. What we need is education and guidance. Then those who don't follow the mindset can always reconsider their spot in here.

How does police presence affect serious people to roleplay? The "serious" roleplayers don't go around shooting up blocks constantly, isn't this what you're trying to prevent?

 

You also got to remember that these people shooting up blocks are the same ones disrupting the very same "serious" roleplay you mention, and one way to fix this is to prevent the shootouts from happening by IC means through police presence.

 

On SAMP this was was never an issue and police factions were able to increase presence if an area became too problematic, and guess what? People stopped shooting it up to preserve their resources and not to get killed by cops every hour.

[JesterJr]

I somewhat remember illegal factions having the same issue if cops started breathing on their neck 24/7. So I strongly believe it will be an opposite reaction.

 

Roleplay servers keep their people because they have put some commitment in it and they do not want to start from 0 by moving to another server or faction. In our case, players haven't put as much commitment to their characters to develop in such a short period, which means that if something happens and they don't like it - they can just jump ships and nothing will keep them back, but the nostalgia of LSRP which might keep them back.

 

The "serious" roleplayers that you put in brackets, I assume because you do not take seriously the statement, is people like me. I got demotivated two days in a row due to silly interactions with civilians/criminal roleplayers and I logged off immediately after these situations. I could have stayed online for about 4-5 hours that day, but I didn't, I decided to play another game.

 

These players had weapons from someone, cause they weren't PF guns. If they were actually affiliated with a faction, then we go back to previous posts which state that we should have a way to control the faction RP quality on the illegal side and how guns are distributed in the server. Cause the same players, if they die from the police presence you suggest, they will respawn - farm some hours, make 1k and go buy another gun to go all over again. You see the circle of stupidity we put ourselves into if we decide to just increase police activity in gang areas?

 

And meanwhile, because of some bad apples, you force the illegal factions who actually RP their side properly to face cops daily in their area because 2 or 3 people are messing around with guns. And why they mess around? Because they are here to troll or they are not educated enough on what standards the server set for criminal RP.

 

I believe criminal RP should be funneled the same way legal RP is. That's the bottom line of what I suggest. There's no other way to do it but from FM monitoring. Active monitoring.

Edited August 3, 2023 by JesterJr

[Mikey]

22 minutes ago, JesterJr said:

 

"I somewhat remember illegal factions having the same issue if cops started breathing on their neck 24/7. So I strongly believe it will be an opposite reaction."

 

There's a difference between breathing on their neck 24/7 and simply allowing cops to be in the area and show presence, fyi cops were told to avoid Jamestown and Davis as much as possible.

 

"Roleplay servers keep their people because they have put some commitment in it and they do not want to start from 0 by moving to another server or faction. In our case, players haven't put as much commitment to their characters to develop in such a short period, which means that if something happens and they don't like it - they can just jump ships and nothing will keep them back, but the nostalgia of LSRP which might keep them back." 

 

This has nothing to do with what I said, increasing police presence doesn't mean everybody gets arrested, simply means you're present in the area and you can respond and/or prevent unplanned and dumb shootouts from happening.

 

"The "serious" roleplayers that you put in brackets, I assume because you do not take seriously the statement, is people like me. I got demotivated two days in a row due to silly interactions with civilians/criminal roleplayers and I logged off immediately after these situations. I could have stayed online for about 4-5 hours that day, but I didn't, I decided to play another game."

 

You're the one that put brackets around serious in the first place, just following your trend.

If the game is not enjoyable because you get demotivated that's fair, if you're encountering bad roleplay you should report it on the forums and if you're getting shot for dumb reasons you should also report that. If you think they shoot too much in the areas you're patrolling then you should consider reading my suggestions in regards to police presence.

 

"These players had weapons from someone, cause they weren't PF guns. If they were actually affiliated with a faction, then we go back to previous posts which state that we should have a way to control the faction RP quality on the illegal side and how guns are distributed in the server. Cause the same players, if they die from the police presence you suggest, they will respawn - farm some hours, make 1k and go buy another gun to go all over again. You see the circle of stupidity we put ourselves into if we decide to just increase police activity in gang areas?

 

And meanwhile, because of some bad apples, you force the illegal factions who actually RP their side properly to face cops daily in their area because 2 or 3 people are messing around with guns. And why they mess around? Because they are here to troll or they are not educated enough on what standards the server set for criminal RP."

 

Trust me that if they respawn and keep shooting they will end up getting kicked from their own faction or they will not be given guns anymore by faction leadership.

 

Facing cops in gang neighborhoods is simply realistic, gangs have to deal with them and they can't simply wild out in public and expect to get away with it without repercussions.

 

Trying to come up with 25 OOC ways and rules to stop IC issues is not good for roleplay and never will be.

Edited August 3, 2023 by Mikey

[JesterJr]

Fair enough, I get your point of view but I'll agree that we disagree on that part. I highly believe there needs to be OOC monitoring when it comes to the aim the server has on RP standards.

 

Appreciate the input however, man.

Edited August 3, 2023 by JesterJr

[Beda]

I haven't read the whole post as I am busy, so I don't know what's the purpose of these questions... but I will answer your questions from my perspective until now.

 

 

 

Why you shoot at a cop? Till now, I haven't shot a cop but I am thinking to start doing it. Why? Because a lot of traffic stops end up with the cop asking to frisk me for no reason, and I would have a gun on me. It's kinda annoying to get asked to be frisked for no reason. You might be a good apple who wants to roleplay and shit, but you for sure have members who all they want is shootouts and pursuits, and they try to provoke it. Also, sometimes a player would straight shoot you up because he knows you are going to call backup and ask to frisk him, so he chooses to kill you before the other arrives... well it's DM, but... it's frustration/hatred between police and illegal RPers sometimes, so players would risk the admin jail.

 

Why you evade a peace officer? Same for the above, I have evaded few times because the cop wants to frisk me over a traffic stop.

 

Why you attack a rival faction? Gang beef... depending on the escalation... can be thousands of reasons.

Why you engage yourself in illegal activities? Legal RP is boring to me. Illegal RP doesn't mean shootouts only, but yeah. I do love shootouts and I like engaging in them, but I don't go around shooting random cops for petty reasons, but as I said, I might start doing it because I get asked to be frisked for no reason a lot, and it's kinda frustrating.

 

 

 

How you will get away by shooting & evading? Most of the times, you will eventually get caught shooting at a cop. Sooner or later. That's why I don't prefer it, but sometimes you have to, so you don't lose your gun to a provoker cop.

 

How you will attack a rival faction to properly evade it afterwards without being shot back by cops who will get on the scene? Just do a quick hit and don't chase people. On other RAGEMP text servers, I don't get caught by doing that. But on LSRP, most of the times you will get caught because a lot of cops around Davis/Rancho area anyways. So it's kinda hard not to get caught.

 

How will you sell drugs without being caught? I don't sell drugs anymore. It's kinda dead because they don't give HP and barely anyone RPs an addict, so right now, it's pointless. No one is buying.

 

Did you give the proper chance on the other side to realize your character is under the influence of something which results to excessive behavior? I don't get it.

 

 

I think they should add a rule that you are not allowed to shoot at a cop for a petty reason, BUT at the same time add that you can't frisk someone for no reason.

Asking to frisk for your "safety" over a t-stop is just dumb. You can just give the driver the ticket and leave. Like... most cops take your license first then ask to frisk so they would have your information when you evade/shoot. Well, they can just give you the ticket and leave?

[JesterJr]

@Beda

 

Due to the nature of the post, I think reading some of the feedback is necessary prior putting out a full scale reply though.

 

Anyway, the questions I make are not really to be actually answered individually by the playerbase - but use them as food for thought behind your actions against cops or other people.

 

If your reason to shoot a cop because you are carrying and they wanna pat you down during a traffic stop then you are taking this a bit wrong. Cause in the topic, we're saying exactly that. Criminals should just be smarter. You shouldn't be packing 24/7. If you do, you increase the chances of being caught and so on. There are regulations that cops follow before going on with a patdown or getting you out of a car. I doubt that all of your traffic stops are like that. And if they are, what makes you more keen to just open fire, instead of roleplaying out and probably even file a Lawsuit against the Department that violated your rights? You know that even if a gun is found on your person, you have high chances of winning a Court Case if the Officer didn't follow the Law to pat you down and ID you? The Constitution actually protects civilians if they actually know their rights and the Laws.

 

However, I find it hard to believe that all of the cops who have pulled you over are randomly trying to pin something on you to get your patted down - and if that's your reason to open fire during such situations over an illegal firearm which will get you 30 minutes in jail time, then I think you should just not carry a gun on you all the time. Or if you do, watch your driving so you're not pulled over. Again, I'm not pointing out to you how to do things, I'm just telling you my side since I've literally been RPing on LSRP since ever. I've been a cop and an illegal faction leader of an official group back in SAMP. And I can confirm to you, that since I was being super careful, my character on SAMP got in jail only twice, both for misdemeanor charges. It ain't hard to outsmart cops.

 

I understand evading is fun - it actually is. But if you do, do it in a realistic manner, nothing to comment here. But if you evade, be ready to face consequences. And if you have a gun on you, opening fire on cops, getting dropped and immediately accepting without any RP is also kind of suiciding to avoid repercussions.

 

And on the "Gang Beef".. Define me what do you mean "gang beef" that could escalate in a shots fired between 10 people in someone else's block. How can situation be so heated when the server is barely 4 months old. How did you all develop such a hate to have big scale shootouts? What is the roleplay between that? Again, I'm not judging, but Uncanny who is part of Road Slayers mentioned earlier that people pull guns over verbal disputes at the moment on the illegal scene. Don't you think that's too much?

 

On the final question that you answered, I'll give you some context since you didn't see what I wrote above on that part.

 

I claimed that it's totally fine if someone Roleplays their character under the influence of a opium based drugs or cocaine or whatever that makes you act recklessly (not talking about weed and LSD here which are party-type drugs) to pull a weapon on a cop or a rival and act aggressively in a situation. But there needs to be some chance to show the other side your character is under the influence. Cause IRL I would realize someone is under some strong drug and I would be extra careful during an confrontation with such an individual, won't even mention being a cop dealing with a person under the influence of a speed-type or opium based drugs. But if you do not RP anything meanwhile, but end up pulling a gun and when an admin shows up you claim your character was High and he acted recklessly - don't you think that's a bit unfair for the other side which didn't have any chance to RP your status?

 

 

I am really putting effort in this thread not to point fingers but to get feedback from the community as much as possible, I think it's too early to create senseless beefs and think one side is hating the other. This ain't a Play 2 Win thing, it's RP. In RP it's fun to lose if the midway is cool from both sides.

[SCANDALOUZ]

1 hour ago, Beda said:

I haven't read the whole post as I am busy, so I don't know what's the purpose of these questions... but I will answer your questions from my perspective until now.

 

 

 

Why you shoot at a cop? Till now, I haven't shot a cop but I am thinking to start doing it. Why? Because a lot of traffic stops end up with the cop asking to frisk me for no reason, and I would have a gun on me. It's kinda annoying to get asked to be frisked for no reason. You might be a good apple who wants to roleplay and shit, but you for sure have members who all they want is shootouts and pursuits, and they try to provoke it. Also, sometimes a player would straight shoot you up because he knows you are going to call backup and ask to frisk him, so he chooses to kill you before the other arrives... well it's DM, but... it's frustration/hatred between police and illegal RPers sometimes, so players would risk the admin jail.

 

Why you evade a peace officer? Same for the above, I have evaded few times because the cop wants to frisk me over a traffic stop.

 

Why you attack a rival faction? Gang beef... depending on the escalation... can be thousands of reasons.

Why you engage yourself in illegal activities? Legal RP is boring to me. Illegal RP doesn't mean shootouts only, but yeah. I do love shootouts and I like engaging in them, but I don't go around shooting random cops for petty reasons, but as I said, I might start doing it because I get asked to be frisked for no reason a lot, and it's kinda frustrating.

 

 

 

How you will get away by shooting & evading? Most of the times, you will eventually get caught shooting at a cop. Sooner or later. That's why I don't prefer it, but sometimes you have to, so you don't lose your gun to a provoker cop.

 

How you will attack a rival faction to properly evade it afterwards without being shot back by cops who will get on the scene? Just do a quick hit and don't chase people. On other RAGEMP text servers, I don't get caught by doing that. But on LSRP, most of the times you will get caught because a lot of cops around Davis/Rancho area anyways. So it's kinda hard not to get caught.

 

How will you sell drugs without being caught? I don't sell drugs anymore. It's kinda dead because they don't give HP and barely anyone RPs an addict, so right now, it's pointless. No one is buying.

 

Did you give the proper chance on the other side to realize your character is under the influence of something which results to excessive behavior? I don't get it.

 

 

I think they should add a rule that you are not allowed to shoot at a cop for a petty reason, BUT at the same time add that you can't frisk someone for no reason.

Asking to frisk for your "safety" over a t-stop is just dumb. You can just give the driver the ticket and leave. Like... most cops take your license first then ask to frisk so they would have your information when you evade/shoot. Well, they can just give you the ticket and leave?

 

 

Does your character have a solid criminal record? Because if they do, then all the points about being "frisked for no reason" are kind of obsolete.

[DonStrapzy]

I haven't read all of comments but one suggestion is to both make the guns harder to get ahold of and also higher prices. No doubt.

[MarkyBapa]

A fix for this would be amazing, like when you got 3 cops on you and you're just by yourself. You're going to shoot, period.  Mainly because of jail. For one it's dead and cells always locked. In real life someone could shoot at 3 cops and die that happens all the time. However more realistic rp scenario would be to surrender. Who the hell wants to spend 19 hours in jail. I get the realism part and not wanting trolls or reckless criminals get off easy. However, prison is just one reason not to play at all. Especially now there is no roleplay in there. It would be more fun for all crims and cops. I think time needs to to be reduced big time. Prison times are just crazy.