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So, here we are again... The topic of Consequences has been approached from nearly every angle. It's time we discuss it from the perspective of realistic solutions. I ask that participants in this thread remain civil, because the staff has locked many such threads after only one vitriolic reply. I'd like to begin with a series of assumptions I am making about the state of how Criminal Justice works with Los Santos Roleplay. LSRP used to have a system of "days in prison" for offenses, circa 2011 and earlier. We changed to a system of "minutes in prison" around 2011 or 2012 because many players were spending their time primarily offline. This coincided with the creation of the DOC faction around 2011 or 2012, since Corrections was now a viable means of roleplay. Currently, we have a system whereby a person can go to prison on charges and sit there AFK or semi-AFK or use a laying animation in their jail cell bed until they're out. Seldom do people roleplay in Prison, and when they do they do so with no fear of consequences. Going to solitary is no true punishment, because it's just a place where they can AFK with no chance of anyone trying to roleplay with them. There is an incredibly unrealistic amount of felony crime happening in Los Santos. It has been quipped by many that such levels of crime would immediately lead to Martial Law, and it's hard to argue with that logic. People murder, rob, and deal drugs and all they really suffer is a type of OOC time-out in the State Prison while they edit the screenshots or video footage from their last gun fight or brawl. Rather than face the consequences of prison or jail, many players would simply prefer to turn and shoot at the police - even for minor offenses such as traffic stops. The server administration has permitted this to get out of hand, to the point where it has become status quo. The excuse people use constantly is "it's just a game", "I just want to enjoy the 2 hours of free time I have", and so on. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - What can be done? "Without Rules, we are nothing but animals." -Socrates "There are those men who say to repay evil with kindness. But I say, how then are we to repay kindness? Repay kindness with kindness, but repay evil with justice." -Kong Qiu Only with an understanding that there is a problem with the way criminal justice works on Los Santos Roleplay do we have even a shred of hope in fixing it. I have a four part proposal that I sincerely believe would fix a lot of the problems we are facing. First, change "minutes in prison" to "days in prison". This will incentivize roleplaying in prison because you cannot AFK for multiple days in a row... plus, that's boring. In my view, if you want to roleplay as a criminal that should also mean roleplaying in prison when you are inevitably caught. Of course, the alternative to roleplaying in prison is always be better at crimes and don't get caught. Second, add pleading to the jailing process. When a person is taken to jail by a law enforcement officer, the jailed player should be given an item in their inventory that states the charges. This is known in real life as the "rap sheet". It would allow the player to carry their sheet with them through the process, and to always know what they are charged with. Additionally, they should be shown the following two forms: (1) a rap sheet; (2) a pleading form. When a person pleads not guilty to at least one charge, they will receive indefinite imprisonment (time does not decrease for the charges they plead not guilty on). Additionally, the District Attorney's Office is notified via Discord that they must file the charges as a court case. If they don't file the charges within a few days, the person can notify the court and be released immediately. Third, add bail to the imprisonment process. If a person pleads not guilty, they will receive indefinite imprisonment until they win their court case. If they have pleaded not guilty to everything, and there are no charges that prevent bail, the person can bail out by paying the fee for the specific charge. In the example (left), the charge of First Degree Murder prevents bail so this person would not be able to bail out. However, most charges other than Rape, Murder, Terrorism, etc. will have a bail amount that is potentially very high. This serves as a "way out" for people who want to go back to their gang life immediately, or who sincerely believe they didn't commit the crime. If the person is found not guilty by the court, they will get this money back. Fourth, add life imprisonment after three convictions for felonies. If a person is a career criminal, they should face life imprisonment. Unless they are convicted of certain "no parole" offenses, they should be able to earn parole at the discretion of the DCR faction. For this, I am not saying if a person is taken to prison once with three felonies -- I am saying three separate times going to prison with felony charges, and either pleading or being found guilty of those felonies. This can be a pivotal moment in the character development of any illegal roleplayer, because it can have major effects on their gang. If the leader or multiple members of a street gang become "three strikes lifers" that might severely weaken the gang and open them up to attack by a rival. Why does this need to be done? One common response to these sorts of "ultra-realism" suggestions is "it's just a game", "I only have 2 hours per night to play, I don't want to waste time in prison"... Roleplaying is not just about the stories we want to tell with our characters. Instead, it is sometimes about the stories others tell with our characters or how all of our collective character stories fit into one larger "meta-story" of the whole LS-RP universe. If people are not willing to see their actions all the way through to the end, they shouldn't take those actions. If a person wants to roleplay a criminal, they must roleplay the whole life of crime and not just the parts they want to. Roleplaying as a criminal means facing that character facing the consequences of crime. Of course, people could still roleplay their characters having no fear and shooting at the cops but that is a separate issue to this one. This suggestion, instead, seeks to solve the problem of unrealistic amounts of crime. The Boyz n the Hood style of roleplay ought to have steep in-character consequences.

"The depths of our transactions are matched only by the precision of our hardware." "We aim to delve deep into your security concerns."

Players can already choose to go to trial for their charges. We have one trial going on right now (People v Paul Jenkins) and one incoming. So the complaint about it being complicated by an item addition is a moot point. Your arrest record is the same paperwork. If you don't write a sufficient one for the DAs office to know the probable cause, you get contacted ic. That's the same way it works right now if someone wants a trial. If you don't respond to the request, then your leadership will get contacted ic about the refusal to cooperate. If the DAs office has to decline to prosecute because of a lack of evidence, that will be on the arresting LEO.

The pleading form would be an item given to the prisoner who clicks buttons that then alerts the DAO. As for the “more paperwork” for cops excuse, that’s what police officers do. It is part of the discretion of arresting someone if you want to sit there and type out the report both irl and ig. It’s not supposed to be a command and back on the road, if that’s what it was supposed to be, this would be no more than a cops and robbers server. The judiciary is here to stay and it will require more documentation so criminals have a fighting chance against a single determination to put them behind bars.

I would like to add a small point that having days in prison, instead of hours, makes a bit more realistic the fact that if somebody is being imprisoned for murder, they don't come back straight from the prison after just 6-8 hours (I don't remember the punishment) and be like "Hey, I'm back after making a mass murder just after 8 hours of prison!".

I present to you, Crash. The shot caller.

DPP = PPK Walther PPK White DPP Walter White : D H&L - Hawke & Little => Heckler & Koch Spencer => Barratt Croatu => Serbu Clarke & Hayes => Smith & Wesson i won't reveal them all !

I believe this must be discussed with the illegal roleplayers, those people whose gameplay will be affected if this goes through. And unfortunately the majority of the comments come from legal RPers. Legal RPers are often victimized by gang/mafia roleplayers. Being robbed or being the victim of a blind bullet in a bar shootout has become more or less commonplace. I also agree that all of our stories are intertwined, but we are the final storytellers for our characters. And at this point in time, I would argue that if I am the victim of a blind bullet in a bar shooting and the shooter is arrested [with the current system], it has the same consequence for both of us (it may be more drastic for him). I will RP a gun wound or type /respawnme and minutes later act like nothing has happened. He, on the other hand, has to stand there "AFK" and check in every 15 minutes or so to avoid being kicked. I totally agree with you that a prison sentence should not be an OOC punishment/timeout. However, I also agree with the statement that "it's just a game", "I only have 2 hours per night to play, I don't want to waste time in prison". That being said, with this proposal, even thought it may seem like you are offering a solution to this problem, [Bring more RP to DOJ perhaps], in fact you potentially increase the time of the very "OOC Penalty" you try to prevent. I just think we shouldn't discourage people from doing illegal RP(Or any type of RP tbh, Be who you want to be, that's the idea of roleplay). Consequences should be much harsher, I agree - but it also shouldn't encourage people to die to police just to avoid arrest. I think these two topics are directly proportional and it'll only lead to more shootings instead of reducing them. Overall, I think there are legitimate concerns and good points. The idea itself is brilliant, especially the parole system as it opens up doors for probation as well. It's just that, I'm not so sure that the proposed solutions address the problem at hand.

This guide will list all of the available weapons, ammo and the weapons' required ammo. If this guide was helpful to you in any way please leave a reaction. Primary Weapons H&L 5A3 9mm FMJ/JHP H&L 5K 9mm FMJ/JHP VF GDR 5.56mm M855/M855A1 VF G90 5.7x28mm SS197SR/SS190 Shrewsbury PGX 9mm FMJ/JHP Moore 870G 12 Gauge #00 Buck Moore 870 12 Gauge #00 Buck Knight 590A1 12 Gauge #00 Buck Agnelli S4 12 Gauge #00 Buck Knight 500 12 Gauge #00 Buck STAR KSP 12 Gauge #00 Buck Krushchev Taiga 21 12 Gauge #00 Buck Malt 1883 12 Gauge #00 Buck Frances SP12 12 Gauge #00 Buck Krushchev 47 7.62X39mm FMJ/SST Millennium WR10 7.62X39mm FMJ/SST Dubrovnik D70 7.62X39mm FMJ/SST Kensington PLR10 5.45x39mm 7N6/7N10 Taiga 5.45 5.45x39mm 7N6/7N10 Malt P4 Carbine 5.56mm M855/M855A1 H&L 451A5 5.56mm M855/M855A1 Yegor CTAN 23 5.56mm M855/M855A1 H&L P36 Carbine 5.56mm M855/M855A1 H&L P36 Kurz 5.56mm M855/M855A1 Maibatsu Q97 5.56mm M855/M855A1 STAR FSB .308 Winchester SP/BTHP Millennium Mini Drake (Compact Rifle) 7.62X39mm FMJ/SST Holds 30 rounds w/o extended magazine Stats: Steiner AVP A3 5.56mm M855/M855A1 VF SCARE-L 5.56mm M855/M855A1 Clarke & Hayes MG15 5.56mm M855/M855A1 Ruby AR5.56 5.56mm M855/M855A1 Mann Defender MDM4V7 (Carbine Rifle) 5.56mm M855/M855A1 This weapon has 30 rounds in the magazine. An extended magazine holds 60 rounds in it. Agnes AFG stock fits onto the Mann Defender MDM4V7 Testing if flashlights fit Malt P4 Special 5.56mm M855/M855A1 Mal Law 6920 5.56mm M855/M855A1 Ruby Mini-41 Tac 5.56mm M855/M855A1 Springer 1861 (Musket) .58 Caliber Ball This weapon is a 1 shot, then you reload and it takes forever. Moore 700P .308 Winchester SP/BTHP Global Targeting Arctic Circle .308 Winchester SP/BTHP Spencer P82A3 .50 BMG M1022/M33 Croatu BFG-50V .50 BMG M1022/M33 Futon P14 GBP .308 Winchester SP/BTHP Springer M1A1 .308 Winchester SP/BTHP Secondary Weapons H&L P9 US (Combat pistol) 9mm FMJ/JHP Holds 12 rounds without extended magazine Extended magazine holds 16 rounds Cannot attach a Beam-Lite TLR-7 Stats Icon Damage Extra info H&L P92 (Pistol) 9mm FMJ/JHP Holds 12 rounds without magazine Extended magazine holds 16 rounds Cannot attach a Beam-Lite TLR-7 to it Stats: Icon: H&L P45 (Heavy pistol) .45ACP FMJ/JHP Believe it comes with a red dot sight on it H&L L45 .45ACP FMJ/JHP H&L P92A1 9mm FMJ/JHP H&L Bald Eagle (Pistol .50) .50AE XTP * Magazine holds 9 rounds Locke 91 (Ceramic Pistol) 9mm FMJ/JHP Magazine holds 12 rounds Extended magazine holds 17 rounds Locke 71 9mm FMJ/JHP Cannot hold extended magazine as of 07.21.2023 Locke 12 (Ceramic pistol) .45ACP FMJ/JHP Holds 12 rounds without magazine Extended magazine holds 17 rounds Cannot attach an Beam-Lite TLR-7 Locke X34 (SNS Pistol MK II) 9mm FMJ/JHP Magazine holds 6 rounds Extended magazine holds 12 rounds Can add a Beam-Lite TLR-7 for a flashlight Shrewsbury G320 9mm FMJ/JHP Shrewsbury G365X 9mm FMJ/JHP Clarke & Hayes 4506 (Heavy Pistol) .45ACP FMJ/JHP Can take a extended magazine Can take a flashlight I believe Clarke & Hayes MG9 (Combat pistol) 9mm FMJ/JHP Magazine holds 12 rounds Magazine holds 16 rounds VF 509 (Pistol MK II) 9mm FMJ/JHP Holds 12 rounds w/o extended magazine Not sure if it holds a magazine Stats: Icon: Cannot hold a flashlight Kinder Custodian LW (Heavy Pistol) .45ACP FMJ/JHP Magazine holds 18 and comes w/ useable red dot in FPS mode Malt 911 Classic .45ACP FMJ/JHP White DPP 9mm FMJ/JHP Malt Boa .44 Magnum JHP Ruby Goshawk .357 Magnum JHP Malt Single Action .45LC JHP Frei Hi Power 9mm FMJ/JHP Sky-Hi ZS 380 .380ACP FMJ/JHP Ruby ES22 .22LR LRN/HP AWS Mini Machine 9mm FMJ/JHP HEK-9 9mm FMJ/JHP PA-9 9mm FMJ/JHP Arach fs.61 .32ACP FMJ/JHP Steiner AP 9x18mm RG028/SP-7 Weapon Ammo 9mm FMJ 9mm JHP .45ACP FMJ .45ACP JHP .50AE XTP .44 Magnum JHP .357 Magnum JHP .380ACP FMJ .380ACP JHP .22LR LRN .22LR HP 5.56 M855 5.56 M855A1 5.7x28mm SS197SR 5.7x28mm SS190 .32ACP FMJ .32ACP JHP .45LC JHP 12 Gauge #00 Buck 7.62x39mm FMJ 7.62x39mm SST 5.45x39mm 7N6 5.45x39mm 7N10 .308 Winchester SP .308 Winchester BTHP .58 Caliber Ball .50 BMG M1022 .50 BMG M33 9x18mm RG028 9X18mm SP-7 SUPER-SOCK Beanbag TAKEN FROM @matical BUT DOING MY OWN TWEAKS TO MY LIKING

Unofficial Guide to Justice and Law in San Andreas ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• This guide is an unofficial explanation of how the Justice System works on LS:RP. This guide can help you determine what options your character might have in terms of interacting with the various forms of law and justice on the server. ••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••• Introduction The Justice System comprises of every step between police contact and jail or prison, including any trials, appeals, or other court proceedings that may result from a dispute. It also comprises of the steps of dispute resolution and civil law available in non-criminal issues. There are two primary divisions of the system - the Criminal system and the Civil system. The Criminal system is operated by the Executive Branch agencies and overseen by the Judicial Branch. The Civil system is exclusively operated by the Judicial Branch. The Criminal System Detainments When a person is contacted by a peace officer, they may be considered detained if a police officer has reasonable suspicion that a crime has been committed, is being committed, or is about to be committed. A peace officer may detain a person for a reasonable amount of time to conduct a preliminary investigation, the goal of which is either to confirm or dispel his suspicions. During a detainment or investigatory stop, a peace officer may be subject to a cursory pat-down or "frisk" of his person, under Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968). A person may also be removed from their vehicle, under Pennsylvania v. Mimms, 434 U.S. 106 (1977), if an officer has reason to believe there is a safety concern present on a traffic stop. This also applies to passengers. Arrests If his suspicions are confirmed, he may have probable cause to conduct an arrest. Alternatively, following a preliminary investigation, a peace officer may choose to release a person from detainment, investigate further, and obtain an arrest warrant if he later determines there is such probable cause. A police officer may ordinarily only conduct an arrest if the crime is committed in his presence. A person may be arrested either custodially or non-custodially. Any offense - including traffic infractions - is eligible for a custodial arrest, see Atwater v. City of Lago Vista, 532 U.S. 318 (2001). On LS:RP, if you would like to pursue a trial, you must request it by informing the officer. Criminal Trials If a person requests a trial, the District Attorney's Office will take over the charges from this point. Your character is entitled to an attorney if they cannot afford one - a Public Defender can be requested on the Judiciary Forums. Alternatively, an officer can request one for you using our private Discord server. If your character can afford an attorney, it is usually best to find one on your own - there is a list available here for anyone who wants to reach out to attorneys, and they sometimes advertise in-game or on the Classifieds or Businesses section. While a character is technically legally allowed to represent themselves (pro se) the Judge may also assign a Public Defender to serve as reserve counsel for such defendants. If a person demonstrates incompetency to defend themselves in court, or an inability to adhere to the Rules of Court, the Judge may relieve the person of their ability to represent themselves. With an attorney, your character will then be able to decide how they would like to plead to the charges. There are many options, however in general if they are requesting a trial your character will be pleading not guilty. Working with an attorney, a person may perform depositions, gather evidence, and is entitled to see all of the evidence held by the state during pre-trial motions. In looking at the evidence, a person may decide to change their plea to guilty or to proceed. There are also other options such as pleading "no contest" or submitting an "Alford plea", which is pleading guilty but maintaining innocence (which preserves the right to a future appeal), per North Carolina v. Alford, 400 U.S. 25 (1970). In a Criminal Action, the burden of proof is upon the state to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a person has committed the offenses as defined by statute. This standard requires that a fictional "reasonable person" would not doubt the guilt of a person. If there is doubt as to whether the person committed the charged offenses, the person must be found not guilty as the state failed to prove the offense. It is possible for a person to be factually guilty but legally not guilty - this happens when the state fails to meet their burden of proof before the court. From this point, this guide can be helpful in navigating the process of a trial. Criminal Appeals If a character is found Guilty, they have the right to appeal at least once to a higher court to review any questions of law that may arise. On Appeal, a person must have an attorney. An appeal addresses specific types of issues and is not simply an opportunity to re-try the case in full. The Appeals Court will usually hear only matters where there is an accusation of an unfair trial, and the burden of proof will be on the original criminal defendant (and his counsel) to prove. At this stage, there is a presumption of guilt since the person has been adjudicated guilty. Some reasons for an appeal might include: The Judge didn't allow certain evidence (or witnesses) into the trial, which may have affected the outcome. The Judge used his discretion in an abusive manner, and affected the outcome of the trial. There was unlawful evidence introduced to the trial, and the Judge should not have allowed it in. The Judge reached an incorrect ruling, legally-speaking. The Judge reached conclusions of fact that no reasonable person could have reached. The Judge demonstrated bias or unlawful discrimination. An appeal can result in many outcomes: The Appeals Court could uphold the verdict. The Appeals Court could dismiss the appeal, with or without hearing arguments. The Appeals Court could modify the decision of the lower court, such as changing the sentence. The Appeals Court could grant a new trial and remand the case to the lower court for re-trial. The Appeals Court could dismiss the verdict entirely, vacating the person's criminal charges. The Civil System The Civil System comprises of the resolution process for civil wrongs between two private parties. This can be sometimes as simple as an injury, or as complicated as a disputed business transaction or contract. If it doesn't fall within the Criminal System, it probably makes more sense as part of the Civil System. Lawsuits If a character has been harmed in some way - physically, financially, emotionally, etc. - they can file a Civil Action in the Civil Division of the Superior Court. Before proceeding to trial, the Judge will often require that the two parties engage in a conference to discuss the matter and attempt to reach some kind of resolution. This may be formalized as a process of mediation with a neutral third-party such as another attorney. If the dispute cannot be resolved this way, it may proceed to Litigation where the parties will argue before a judge both sides of the case. Ultimately, after each side argues their case, the Judge will decide on the matter and issue a ruling. In a Civil Action, the burden of proof is upon the Plaintiff to prove with a preponderance of the evidence that some entitlement was withheld, a tort was committed, or a contract was breached. A Preponderance of the Evidence, in short, means that the evidence must show that it is more likely that the Plaintiff is correct than the Defendant. Appeals Sometimes, a character may not like the outcome of a civil case and could seek to escalate the matter. A Civil Appeal is much like a Criminal Appeal, since it seeks to address Questions of Law to ensure the court of first instance fairly adjudicated over the matter. Other Civil Actions There are other kinds of Civil Actions, not all of which are used on LS:RP. These include Tax Court, Civil Commitments, and other types of administrative hearings.