UFC Discussions

[Sergi]

whole lotta casuals in this thread 

[Zachh]

On 11/30/2021 at 10:23 PM, Jit said:

The only people that say Jon Jones isn't the GOAT are people who just don't like him lol, people say anything when they dislike someone. (it's obvious when you choose to attack him for his personal life and not what he does for his career, get your life in check first before you bash another person)

 

Also you can't put Khabib over double champs in goat terms something he would of never been able to accomplish especially in 175 where almost EVERYONE in that top 8-10ish range is a gifted Olympic, D1/D2 wrestler with accolades to match.

This is exactly the same reason applied to the only people that claim Khabib isn't a goat though. They don't want to admit that he's good, because they don't like his fighting style. Who would y'all say is the wrestling goat then? Daniel Cormier? Because he was double champ? Even he has said Khabib was better than him, and he believes Khabib is the best fighter of all time. So now what?

[Jit]

6 hours ago, Zachh said:

This is exactly the same reason applied to the only people that claim Khabib isn't a goat though. They don't want to admit that he's good, because they don't like his fighting style. Who would y'all say is the wrestling goat then? Daniel Cormier? Because he was double champ? Even he has said Khabib was better than him, and he believes Khabib is the best fighter of all time. So now what?

Jon dominated for YEARS. Top contender age 19-22 (which is unheard of now), world champion age 23 (this is a world record and will probably not be broken for YEARS or ever), fought the best his entire career and has never been beaten. You’re honestly overly biased and a casual if you don’t think khabib’s record is DRASTICALLY padded. His true reign was from 2018 (Conor fight) to oct 24th 2020 (his last bout the) Gathje fight. How are you the GOAT with a reign of 2 years. Especially over people like Jon Jones who has 11 title defenses, Cormier who was unbeatable until Jon jones and is also a double champ, hell Amanda nunes has dominated and hasn’t lost since 2014 and is also a double champ

 

you don’t know the the difference between the goat (not “a” goat theirs only one) and someone who’s better or more talented. Greatness is accolades and accomplishments, better is talent/skill. The GOAT of something is usually not the most gifted just someone who had the best career. Example Lebron James is a more talented overall basketball player than Jordan, Only thing Jordan has is the 6-0 finals record so people will wildly call him the goat.

 

khabib is the LW goat and the peoples champ and that’s it. That’s why he continues to even exist in the goat topic.

 

go watch a kamaru Usman or a Izzy adesayna fight and tell me honestly if you think khabib is beating either of those guys

Edited December 3, 2021 by Jit

[Jit]

Also I’ve not once said Khabib isn’t good either, even called him unbeatable at lightweight in any and every era we’ve ever seen no lw fighter could beat him. But a 2 year reign and how good and technical MMA is now he’s not beating a top 175 and up fighter especially not with his style by throwing a few faints and then diving for their legs go look up the wrestling backgrounds of top 175ers all Olympian’s and D1 wrestlers now put elite level striking ontop. It’s just not happening.

[Zachh]

I never said Jon Jones wasn't a goat either.. you're the one talking about how there can only be one, there's never one goat, people almost always talk about like top 5 in the mma community, it's so hard to tell. How am I casual, a casual would base decisions off records lol so many (maybe majority?) of current and ex-UFC fighters call Khabib elite because you can see how good someone is from how they fight. Again, Jon Jones is a goat too, but he also went to decision against all the top fighters, while Khabib started dominating top opponents and finishing all of them with ease, it's clear he's one of the best. But I do think Ciryl Gane is a new goat, and if Jon fights again, that's who he'll lose to, personally. ??Watch Izzy?? Izzy got wrestled by Jan  Blachowicz and couldn't do anything the whole fight.. need I say Jan got outwrestled by Glover, and you think Izzy would win against Khabib?? I'm not even a Khabib fan either, I said my favorite fighters above, but it's just pretty obvious how good he was, I guess Makhachev will just continue it now anyway though. 

[Jit]

2 hours ago, Zachh said:

I never said Jon Jones wasn't a goat either.. you're the one talking about how there can only be one, there's never one goat, people almost always talk about like top 5 in the mma community, it's so hard to tell. How am I casual, a casual would base decisions off records lol so many (maybe majority?) of current and ex-UFC fighters call Khabib elite because you can see how good someone is from how they fight. Again, Jon Jones is a goat too, but he also went to decision against all the top fighters, while Khabib started dominating top opponents and finishing all of them with ease, it's clear he's one of the best. But I do think Ciryl Gane is a new goat, and if Jon fights again, that's who he'll lose to, personally. ??Watch Izzy?? Izzy got wrestled by Jan  Blachowicz and couldn't do anything the whole fight.. need I say Jan got outwrestled by Glover, and you think Izzy would win against Khabib?? I'm not even a Khabib fan either, I said my favorite fighters above, but it's just pretty obvious how good he was, I guess Makhachev will just continue it now anyway though. 

Say out loud what I’m about to type.

”a greatest of all time”

”the greatest of all time”

one makes sense the other doesn’t.

Their is a “great” of all time and “the greatest” this entire conversation is about the greatest.

 

2. Do you not know what a weight class is? And why they exist. Blachowicz fought Israel (who fights at 185 lbs) at 220 pounds in the 205 pound division. You bringing him up does absolutely nothing but further my point on why weight classes exist. You do realize it’s easier to slam a 155lb guy than it is to slam a 185lb guy? Now imagine khabib at 155 wrestling a 220 mma wrestler.

 

izzy is 21-1 AND EVERYONE he’s fought are either legends/champions/top contenders. Don’t forget to mention his 77-3 kickboxing record. Theirs no way you think Khabib at fight weight of 155 who’s 5’10 is going to rag doll Someone at 185 like Izzy who’s also 6’4 (btw Izzy has the best takedown defense percentage in the entire UFC) and he’s fought better wrestlers than khabib who also weigh on average 35-40 more pounds.  Example: Yoel Romero, Blachowicz.

“theirs never one goat”

Brady? Who’s the other goat of American football? Their is none.

Messi? 

LBJ?

Usain bolt?

Diana taurasi?
 

Also no way you base goat status off of if you finish someone or go to decision. I’m guessing you don’t  know Out of 13 UFC Fights. Khabib has 6 decision wins and those were against low ranked bottom tier fighters and one was in a title fight against Al Quinta. Meanwhile Jon Jones has 9 finishes so that doesn’t help your case for khabib…

Dustin,Connor and gathje were his only finishes that matter and those were by subs because as everyone knows his striking is mediocre.

 

ask yourself a serious Question Khabib vs Jon Jones in a fight who wins?

 

What does Khabib have over 11 title defenses (14 title fights in all and won all of them in the course of 11 years) against former champions and legends? Or a double champ who’s dominated 6 years straight?

 

You become the goat through years of domination aka longevity not having 3 top level fights in 2 years then retiring only way he could possibly be the goat was if he went up to 175 spanked Usman (which he wouldn’t) and became double champ with ease like he did in 155 which would never happen. You’re trying to switch the conversation when everyone here has been talking who’s “the” goat so it’s like talking in circles. And I’m typing to much as it is but this is kinda fun

Edited December 4, 2021 by Jit

[Jit]

You can say you’re not a khabib fan but you’re pushing this narrative like theirs no one in the world that can beat him and that’s just untrue Every champion in a higher weight class than 155 would walk the dog on him. He’s still “A” great but he’s not “THE” greatest.

 

you just name, names. And think because he beat that guy that and that guy lost to that guy, that’s not how fights play out. And you also to fail to realize what weight classes are. For.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Jit

[Zachh]

?? You're the one that brought up fighting in other weight classes. And they would both be the same weight class, unless you're saying dropping down a weight class makes you do better. And then you say Izzy would definitely win because he's bigger, but he's bigger than Jan too, and chose to remain lean, you're jumping all over the place trying to piece together a reason Khabib is not one of the best lol. Fought top contenders, and Khabib hasn't? RDA, Barboza, Poirier, Gaethje and McGregor are not/were not top contenders, alright. Whaat, first Blachowicz now Yoel Romero is a better wrestler than Khabib, oh my... I don't think you will find one person in UFC that agrees with you dawg, you might get banned from an MMA forum for trolling lol. I don't know, I don't watch many other sports, I hear people debate between Ronaldo, Neymar or Messi all the time though. That's literally the point, he started having exponential growth and dominating elite opponents, his potential was cut short and everyone saw it. Middleweight Khabib was already pushing it, now you want to talk about a heavyweight Khabib, and then you said I'm the one bringing up weight class, after I just compare them to their opponents lol?? The only opinino I have is that Ciryl Gane will beat Jon Jones because they're actual opponents. Outside of that I see Jon Jones and Khabib as equally skilled against their opponents, I think them along with GSP are all 3 the greatest. 

[Jit]

1 hour ago, Zachh said:

?? You're the one that brought up fighting in other weight classes. And they would both be the same weight class, unless you're saying dropping down a weight class makes you do better. And then you say Izzy would definitely win because he's bigger, but he's bigger than Jan too, and chose to remain lean, you're jumping all over the place trying to piece together a reason Khabib is not one of the best lol. Fought top contenders, and Khabib hasn't? RDA, Barboza, Poirier, Gaethje and McGregor are not/were not top contenders, alright. Whaat, first Blachowicz now Yoel Romero is a better wrestler than Khabib, oh my... I don't think you will find one person in UFC that agrees with you dawg, you might get banned from an MMA forum for trolling lol. I don't know, I don't watch many other sports, I hear people debate between Ronaldo, Neymar or Messi all the time though. That's literally the point, he started having exponential growth and dominating elite opponents, his potential was cut short and everyone saw it. Middleweight Khabib was already pushing it, now you want to talk about a heavyweight Khabib, and then you said I'm the one bringing up weight class, after I just compare them to their opponents lol?? The only opinino I have is that Ciryl Gane will beat Jon Jones because they're actual opponents. Outside of that I see Jon Jones and Khabib as equally skilled against their opponents, I think them along with GSP are all 3 the greatest. 

“Dropping down a weight makes you better” okay so you have 0 idea what cutting weight is and that fighters don’t just wake up and fight at the weight that they walk around in every day… okay you just continue to prove to me you have no idea what you’re talking about and clearly just have bias I’ll help educate you.

 

Conor McGregor fw/lw double champ. He’s lost 1 UFC Fight at 145/155 lbs (khabib) he’s 2-4 fighting at 170 lbs… Conor until recently walked around at 170 and was fighting guys who walked around at 155-60. When you cut from a heavier weight… you have strength advantages and you’re heavier body causes those lighter than you to fatigue quicker that’s called physiology, train in any combat mma sport… and get matched up with a guy who’s 25+ lbs heavier than you and you’ll see lol.

 

how is Izzy bigger than Jan when Jan fights at 205 walks around at 220. and Izzy at 185 and fought at about 200lbs …  You do realize just because you’re taller than them that doesn’t make you bigger… btw Izzy is only 2 inches taller than Jan. Make it make sense on how he’s bigger than Jan please.

 

theirs no way you think Khabib would go up into a weight class of people who walk around at 205+ pounds and throw them around like he does 155 light weights. You’re the troll. And by better i should of worded it better as you’re the type to look for any and everything to knit pick at without reading entirely, I meant heavier wrestlers. Look at Yoel Romero… do you really think Khabib is throwing him around.

 

Honestly think you just refuse to read.

I very CLEARLY multiple times said “khabib is one of the goats not THE goat” You’re literally a wall lol.

 

also I literally said nothing about middleweight. I also clearly said welterweight (170lbs Kamaru Usman)

You saying khabib will beat him is exposing enough… when EVERYONE including even Dana White says he’s (Usman) the best ever, then Kamaru just did an interview where he himself said without the allegations Jon Jones is the best ever.

 

you say I’m scrambling to piece together things… you’re scrambling to read and comprehend.

 

You have major regency bias and it shows.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Jit

[Jit]

1 hour ago, Zachh said:

RDA, Barboza, Poirier, Gaethje and McGregor

you refuse to read… I LITERALLY just said these names when mentioning who khabib has fought lol…

 

“Ronaldo, Neymar or Messi all the time though.”

 

Yeah… you don’t watch football either no one who actually watches the sport says Neymar is one of the greats he’s never even been the best player on any of his teams ever.… 

Messi just won his 2nd straight ballon d'or (best player in the world) would of been 3rd but Covid making that his 7th (most ever) Ronaldo has won 5… Neymar 0.

 

Edited December 4, 2021 by Jit

[Zachh]

What are you saying, you're talking as if dropping weight classes makes you better and now you're saying I said it and that I don't know what cutting weight is, I don't even know what you're saying anymore. What... he lost two more times in lightweight against Poirier... I really don't know what you're saying anymore. Brother, you should check the analytics, most people who change weights do not have very different results, no matter if they go up or down, weight cutting harder doesn't magically make you better, you just feel even more like shit most of the time. Like who is a recent example we saw go down in weight, didn't Diego Sanchez go down and get his ass kicked and went right back up? Or if you even want to use what you're talking about right now as an example, Conor doing well at 170 and then going down to 155 and getting destroyed by Khabib + Dustin x2 lol. I just said he chooses to remain lean, he could have a transformation like Jon Jones if he wanted to, like how is he going to defend a LHW title if he won it? Instead you're making excuses about how LHW isn't fair for him, let alone a guy who is 6'4 lol. He thought he was too good against wrestling, like how you're acting. You're all over the place trying to glue the pieces together here lol as if he was forced to go for double champ in another weight, and then he wouldn't have to defend it, and then be like "well it was unfair for him to fight at a weight that's normal for his size.. Jan has the advantage.." lmfao what.. He would if they met half way at a reasonable weight, not in a world where he becomes obese trying to add 50 pounds, next we're going to be talking about who would win Brandon Moreno vs Derrick Lewis lol. Yes, but you think the goat means who could kick each other's ass, of course a heavyweight will always be the goat then, that's why you think Jon Jones is the goat and why most of the mma community disagrees with you and thinks Khabib is the goat. Recency bias, bro what....... Jon Jones and Khabib both just fought last year, they're like the same age too...... Yes, I just said I don't watch football lol

[Jit]

1 hour ago, Zachh said:

What are you saying, you're talking as if dropping weight classes makes you better and now you're saying I said it and that I don't know what cutting weight is, I don't even know what you're saying anymore. What... he lost two more times in lightweight against Poirier... I really don't know what you're saying anymore. Brother, you should check the analytics, most people who change weights do not have very different results, no matter if they go up or down, weight cutting harder doesn't magically make you better, you just feel even more like shit most of the time. Like who is a recent example we saw go down in weight, didn't Diego Sanchez go down and get his ass kicked and went right back up? Or if you even want to use what you're talking about right now as an example, Conor doing well at 170 and then going down to 155 and getting destroyed by Khabib + Dustin x2 lol. I just said he chooses to remain lean, he could have a transformation like Jon Jones if he wanted to, like how is he going to defend a LHW title if he won it? Instead you're making excuses about how LHW isn't fair for him, let alone a guy who is 6'4 lol. He thought he was too good against wrestling, like how you're acting. You're all over the place trying to glue the pieces together here lol as if he was forced to go for double champ in another weight, and then he wouldn't have to defend it, and then be like "well it was unfair for him to fight at a weight that's normal for his size.. Jan has the advantage.." lmfao what.. He would if they met half way at a reasonable weight, not in a world where he becomes obese trying to add 50 pounds, next we're going to be talking about who would win Brandon Moreno vs Derrick Lewis lol. Yes, but you think the goat means who could kick each other's ass, of course a heavyweight will always be the goat then, that's why you think Jon Jones is the goat and why most of the mma community disagrees with you and thinks Khabib is the goat. Recency bias, bro what....... Jon Jones and Khabib both just fought last year, they're like the same age too...... Yes, I just said I don't watch football lol

 

Yeah, this isn't going anywhere. You refuse to read and then talk in circles and completely switch my words around. I did not say Connor did well at 170 "he’s 2-4 fighting at 170 lbs" (He's actually 2-1 in 170)

 

I'm not about to argue with you.

 

UFC fighters all say Jon would be the undisputed goat if he didn't have these allegations and shit against him, that's why it's a conversation. Theirs a literally poll vote in the MMA reddit that says Jon has the better career. Even Dana White has said Jon Jones is the goat lol.

 

You're talking in circles, guy.

"Yes, but you think the goat means who could kick each other's ass" 

Again another comment without any context.

 

Convince me why Khabib 3 fight streak of top opponents (Connor,Dustin,Garathje) is better than Jon Jones 14 title defenses, 18 fight win streak (and still going), which has lasted for over a decade. How does 3 fights in 2 years as a champ make you the goat. Explain that to me, I don't want to talk about anything else.

 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Jit

[Zachh]

You didn't say it but I did, because he did, seems it's you who didn't know weight classes well.. Kind of losing attention, I think you're the one trying to argue with the essays, I just wanted a discussion and was explaining why everyone says Khabib is the best. Don't disagree, as I said I can't differentiate who is better. That's Jon Jones' argument for why he's the goat, on top of the fact that he fucked up Daniel Cormier, and then of course the argument against him is peds/controversies. I pretty much said Khabib's side, becoming exponentially better, dominating top opponents in a stacked division, comes into his last fight weighed down by his dad's death and still, lets an easy submission go to not beat his opponent graphically in front of his family, goes for a harder submission and gets that anyway. (Who does that, let alone in a championship fight) And then usually the argument against him is he didn't fight long enough or he's boring/wrestler. 

[Jit]

On 12/3/2021 at 9:13 PM, Jit said:

What does Khabib have over 11 title defenses (14 title fights in all and won all of them in the course of 11 years) against former champions and legends? Or a double champ who’s dominated 6 years straight?

You still refuse to answer or say anything valuable 

 

You're the GOAT through longevity and lengthy domination. 

Not 3 fights  as a champion in 2 years and leaving.

 

" dominating top opponents in a stacked division"

Also LW is not stacked.

Jon Jones did the same thing and LHW was 10x more stacked than LW, LW was a joke until Connor made it what it was. What does Garethje family have to do with anything Like you're literally just saying anything you can, Jon Jones has double the amount of finish wins than Khabib so that does not help your case at all.

 

"explaining why everyone says Khabib is the best"

You bring up random people on forums and social media sites like you and me and think that solidifies anything as facts, when I'm literally naming credible sources within UFC...

 

Stop saying that shit, I will post countless links of former/current Champions and Dana White himself as well as retired Legends saying Jon Jones is the GOAT.

ESPN did a poll and Jon Jones won it. Who is this Everyone that you speak of? The Average 2019 UFC fan? That's not the community.

 

Nothing you've said is convincing.

"(Who does that, let alone in a championship fight) "

Lol who else wins 14 championship fights? Not Khabib.

Edited December 5, 2021 by Jit

[Jit]

Amanda just got her ass whooped