Firearm prices for long guns (Rifles, shotguns) and heavy pistols.

[Wesson]

2 minutes ago, 30PiecesOfSilver said:

Who cares about taking care of a rifle, you shouldn't have to always be stressed out because you left a rifle in your house and said house gets robbed because you forgot one time to lock or something. Same applies to vehicles, these prices WILL go down, as of right now they were only implemented because of the amount of shootouts with pistols out in the streets. A rifle should be 1000$ max with the current economy, rifles aren't used for many crimes right now as you cannot walk around with them, same for shotguns.

Lot of people use rifles, everyday, including when they open fire on police, there's a lot of rifles that are used in crimes.

 

$1000 for a rifle is absolutely unacceptable, a good gun with good attachments and a lot of ammo is an investment and shouldn't cost petty change you can get from a few trucking routes.

[Wesson]

6 minutes ago, 30PiecesOfSilver said:

Why in the world do you keep bringing the word "Investment".  We're currently in a server with realistic economy model, and these prices do not follow the whole point of having a realistic economy. Roze said he wanted a hard core type of money vs income. The average salary for most jobs is roughly 450$-500$ an hour, a shotgun or a rifle ISN'T an investment. 7000$ for a shotgun means you'll have to spend 15-20 hours to just afford a  shotgun/rifle. This firearm things just ruins the economic model that was proposed and is currently used. With these being the price of legal firearms it means that the black market ones will also increase to amounts that don't make sense. I really do not understand your logic on investing in a a firearm? As only rare editions or antiques are an investment. The firearms in my safe right now won't be worth much in 20 years except for my ww2 era rifles.

 

Because if you care about your money, you should also care about where it goes. If you're buying an expensive rifle, I expect you to take care of it and at least not use it loosely in a crime that will get you to lose the weapon. 

 

$3000-$4000 for a bare bones rifle makes sense, maybe not $7000, but these prices are not that steep and if you want to use them for tame roleplay such as hunting, then all you gotta do is buy it once and make sure you don't lose it, which applies to virtually every possession. If you want to be able to buy rifles for cheap so you can just use them in every gang shooting, lose it, then be able to buy a new one, then I don't agree with you at all.

 

Let's not start comparing real life to the server please, single food items cost $50 because you can 2-3$k in a matter of few hours. If you are not willing to work for your nice, tricked out ammo, its attachments and a lot of ammo -- then you shouldn't be able to buy it, at all.

 

 

[30PiecesOfSilver]

1 minute ago, Wesson said:

 

Because if you care about your money, you should also care about where it goes. If you're buying an expensive rifle, I expect you to take care of it and at least not use it loosely in a crime that will get you to lose the weapon. 

 

$3000-$4000 for a bare bones rifle makes sense, maybe not $7000, but these prices are not that steep and if you want to use them for tame roleplay such as hunting, then all you gotta do is buy it once and make sure you don't lose it, which applies to virtually every possession. If you want to be able to buy rifles for cheap so you can just use them in every gang shooting, lose it, then be able to buy a new one, then I don't agree with you at all.

 

Let's not start comparing real life to the server please, single food items cost $50 because you can 2-3$k in a matter of few hours. If you are not willing to work for your nice, tricked out ammo, its attachments and a lot of ammo -- then you shouldn't be able to buy it, at all.

 

 

I'm not even talking about crimes, my whole point is trying to make these affordable to people using rifles and firearms in something else than the typical low quality street gang cop and robber player.  And yes, the economic impact of firearms does apply to the server economy, and I don't want a "tricked" out rifle lmao. No one cares about those attachments anyways. And 1000$ for a rifle makes sense if we had proper PF licenses rules and regulations that would restrict the use of firearms in crimes on the daily basis. Criminals shouldn't even have access to these guns in the first place. And I don't know what world you live in where you can make 3000$ in a few hours. At most I can make is maybe 1500$ in 4 hours right now being a legal character. The only reasons firearm prices went up is due to the street gang deathmatchers.  So now, I'm proposing to lower the prices of these since they're not in the reach of legal non criminal characters. I understand you are a cop and you get shot at everyday, but with proper PF licenses regulations we wouldn't have this issue at all and the prices needs to be lowered back to where they were and stricter OOC and IC rules needs to be applied to PF licenses. Such a requiring to be level 10 to apply for a PF license (This would eliminate most of the issues we have). And if you get caught selling firearms IC  you lose your license and are banned oocly for a few months to re-apply for said license. Your point of view of a police officer is flawed and biased. You clearly do not see the other side.

[Wesson]

Rifles should not be easily accessible and should never be as cheap as $1000.

 

If you want a gun for outdoor activities, which is a privilege, then you should earn that money to buy the rifle.

 

Having guns is not a right, it's a privilege to those who can afford it, in and out of the game.

 

Being a cop in the game has nothing to do with my viewpoint, it's a shared ideology that rifles should not be as cheap as $1000.

 

We have proper PF license regulations and everything you've proposed is already a rule, I recommend reading the PF rules section so you can familiarize yourself with the rules that are already imposed.

 

Requiring someone to be lvl 10 to apply for PF is an extreme approach. I've been playing since release and I'm only level 8. 

 

The fact is that guns should not be easily accessible or cheap in any regard, if you want the privilege of going hunting, then you should earn that money to be able to buy a rifle, which would also be a one time purchase since guns last forever and don't have durability, now if you keep losing your guns for whatever reason, that is on you.

[Wesson]

You seem to have high standards in character, if you want to be able to enjoy the privileged opportunities to go and hunt or do something else, then you need to earn the money for it and be able to buy a decent rifle for the job. Hunting is a privilege and so is literally any other activity surrounding firearms. Food items costing $50 means that everything is marked up by a 3-4x multiplier and so are guns. 

 

A single piece of gauze costing $34 dollars is a prime example of this to match the economy of a video game. In real life a piece of gauze costs a few cents .

[30PiecesOfSilver]

5 minutes ago, Wesson said:

You seem to have high standards in character, if you want to be able to enjoy the privileged opportunities to go and hunt or do something else, then you need to earn the money for it and be able to buy a decent rifle for the job. Hunting is a privilege and so is literally any other activity surrounding firearms. Food items costing $50 means that everything is marked up by a 3-4x multiplier and so are guns. 

 

A single piece of gauze costing $34 dollars is a prime example of this to match the economy of a video game. In real life a piece of gauze costs a few cents .

Look, I get where you're coming from with this whole "earning privileges" angle, but let's be real here. We're playing a game to have fun, not simulate an ultra-realistic economy. Slapping exorbitant prices on guns might sound all high and mighty, but it's a one-way ticket to pushing away newbies and casual players who just want to enjoy themselves. Comparing game prices to real-world costs like gauze is a stretch – we're talking about a fictional world with its own rules. We're here to have a good time, and if you're dead set on creating a virtual gated community, fine, but don't be surprised when the player base dwindles because of it. Let's find a middle ground that makes the game enjoyable for everyone,

[30PiecesOfSilver]

15 minutes ago, Wesson said:

Rifles should not be easily accessible and should never be as cheap as $1000.

 

If you want a gun for outdoor activities, which is a privilege, then you should earn that money to buy the rifle.

 

Having guns is not a right, it's a privilege to those who can afford it, in and out of the game.

 

Being a cop in the game has nothing to do with my viewpoint, it's a shared ideology that rifles should not be as cheap as $1000.

 

We have proper PF license regulations and everything you've proposed is already a rule, I recommend reading the PF rules section so you can familiarize yourself with the rules that are already imposed.

 

Requiring someone to be lvl 10 to apply for PF is an extreme approach. I've been playing since release and I'm only level 8. 

 

The fact is that guns should not be easily accessible or cheap in any regard, if you want the privilege of going hunting, then you should earn that money to be able to buy a rifle, which would also be a one time purchase since guns last forever and don't have durability, now if you keep losing your guns for whatever reason, that is on you.

 Oh, I see, so according to you, we're supposed to guard our virtual rifles like they're rare artifacts in a museum? Newsflash: this is a game, not a reality show about rifle conservation. And let's not pretend that rampant robberies aren't a thing here – it's practically a sport. So sure, let's "take care" of our rifles in this wild west of pixelated chaos. But let's also remember that the real issue isn't just about "losing" guns; it's about creating an enjoyable experience where everyone can partake without having to count bullets like they're made of gold.

Edited August 13, 2023 by 30PiecesOfSilver
grammar fix

[Wesson]

It's not an issue of being high and mighty, but preventing easy and cheap access to high powered guns.

 

You want a high powered gun with a scope so you can shoot down deer in the wilderness? Be my guest, but if you think it shouldn't cost you a pretty penny, then I completely disagree.

 

You are wanting high quality privileged activities such as hunting, even in real life the average person cannot go hunting because of its cost. 

 

If you want a shotgun for self defense, work and get that money, buy it and store it in a safe and take care of it, so you don't have to buy another one next week, this also applies in real life, something you keep mentioning in real life.

 

Sure, maybe the rifle shouldn't cost $7000 dollars and the shotgun shouldn't cost $5000, but a rifle costing $3000 is extremely reasonable, if you don't have the $3000 for a rifle and there's no argument about it, sure, you could have shotguns be $2000-$2500 which would make sense, but to sit here and claim that rifles should cost $1000 is outrageous.

[Wesson]

Just now, 30PiecesOfSilver said:

 Oh, I see, so according to you, we're supposed to guard our virtual rifles like they're rare artifacts in a museum? Newsflash: this is a game, not a reality show about rifle conservation. And let's not pretend that rampant robberies aren't a thing here – it's practically a sport. So sure, let's "take care" of our rifles in this wild west of pixelated chaos. But let's also remember that the real issue isn't just about "losing" guns; it's about creating an enjoyable experience where everyone can partake without having to count bullets like they're made of gold.

 

You're supposed to take care of your possessions the same way you don't leave your car unlocked and with its engine running in middle of Forum drive, this is not hard to understand. 

 

If you buy a rifle and you lose it the same day, that's on you. I don't understand why you think that rifles with high magazine capacities should be dirt cheap.

 

Are there used car lots in the game that have used vehicles for $2000-$3000 like in real life, no. Cars cost a lot of money and so they should, comparing real life prices to in game prices is irrelevant. You can easily make a few thousand dollars every single day on the server and I also don't understand the need for multiple expensive weapons, you buy a good rifle, you take care of it, this is how it is and should be. Guns should not be thrown around like candy with little to no regard, we are talking about firearms here, they give you the power to PK any player from any type of situation.

 

Treating something like a museum piece and taking care of your firearms so they don't end up in somebody else's hands are not the same things by any imaginable margin.

[30PiecesOfSilver]

8 minutes ago, Wesson said:

It's not an issue of being high and mighty, but preventing easy and cheap access to high powered guns.

 

You want a high powered gun with a scope so you can shoot down deer in the wilderness? Be my guest, but if you think it shouldn't cost you a pretty penny, then I completely disagree.

 

You are wanting high quality privileged activities such as hunting, even in real life the average person cannot go hunting because of its cost. 

 

If you want a shotgun for self defense, work and get that money, buy it and store it in a safe and take care of it, so you don't have to buy another one next week, this also applies in real life, something you keep mentioning in real life.

 

Sure, maybe the rifle shouldn't cost $7000 dollars and the shotgun shouldn't cost $5000, but a rifle costing $3000 is extremely reasonable, if you don't have the $3000 for a rifle and there's no argument about it, sure, you could have shotguns be $2000-$2500 which would make sense, but to sit here and claim that rifles should cost $1000 is outrageous.

Well, brace yourselves, folks, because the "smoke and mirrors" expert has chimed in. Optics, attachments, self-defense, hunting – congrats, you've managed to throw virtual grenades of irrelevance left and right. But hold up, here's a reality check: while you're getting lost in your argument maze, the rest of us are pointing out the utter ridiculousness of base rifle and shotgun prices. And just when I thought the hunting spiel was done, here comes another round /facepalm. I don't know where you live, but hunting is far from being a privilege, it's a really affordable hobby and not hard to get into, at all. And here's a thought, if we're constantly being robbed on this server, why should we be grinding away like mindless idiots for hours to get access back to a rifle that isn't going to be used in a crime? The amount of crimes on the server makes it IMPOSSIBLE to keep that firearm safely easily, yeah I think 1000-2000$ for a base rifle is fine, just make attachments super expansive then, I don't care if my rifle has only 5 rounds in it, my goal isn't to go at war against Talibans but to enjoy firearm related roleplay that isn't a crime without having to worry of losing  a month's income if I get it stolen.

[Wesson]

Hunting is a privilege, owning a gun is a privilege, owning a long rifle is a privilege.

 

Hunting is not an affordable activity for the average person, either. It requires a rifle, ammunition, means of transportation and not to mention a Hunting Permit which will soon be required for hunting activities.

 

A rifle should cost somewhere between two or three thousand dollars, but if you can dish out $3000 for a rifle which you intent to just use for fun, I don't seem to get why you can't dish out $2000 dollars more for the same thing, sure $7000 is a wild price for a shotgun, but with the price comes the incentive that you need to take care of your property and its YOUR responsibility if your property gets stolen and nobody else's fault.

 

If you're constantly being robbed, then I don't know what to tell you, you need to worry more about other people not knowing where you live so you can safeguard your possessions.

 

 

[30PiecesOfSilver]

45 minutes ago, Wesson said:

Hunting is a privilege, owning a gun is a privilege, owning a long rifle is a privilege.

 

Hunting is not an affordable activity for the average person, either. It requires a rifle, ammunition, means of transportation and not to mention a Hunting Permit which will soon be required for hunting activities.

 

A rifle should cost somewhere between two or three thousand dollars, but if you can dish out $3000 for a rifle which you intent to just use for fun, I don't seem to get why you can't dish out $2000 dollars more for the same thing, sure $7000 is a wild price for a shotgun, but with the price comes the incentive that you need to take care of your property and its YOUR responsibility if your property gets stolen and nobody else's fault.

 

If you're constantly being robbed, then I don't know what to tell you, you need to worry more about other people not knowing where you live so you can safeguard your possessions.

 

 

I'll resume your whole arguments.

"Hunting is a privilege, owning a gun is a privilege, owning a long rifle is a privilege"
No it was never a privilege ever, hunting and owning guns is a very common if we compare it with real life, as I said you clearly
don't know anything about those. They shouldn't be a privilege, and yes we compare things to real life.....

 

"You need to take care of your rifle and not get it stolen."
I'm tired of you saying the same thing over and over. You DO NOT GET THE POINT. Yes players aren't trying to actively
get robbed. But robberies are so common that it's like a hobby for some. "Take care of your rifle, it's your responsibility, blah blah blah" Okay,
cool I get it, but if I get it stolen I shouldn't have to grind 20+ hours to go back to doing passive role-play that brings something else
than freaking crimes and shootouts.

Keep gate-keeping role-play behind massive grind walls and see what happens to the playerbase of the server, the decision to increase gun prices to the point of a gun being worth as much a car is an absolute joke when we're supposed to have a realistic economy and prices. And yes a beer is 25$ but even in a world where a drink is 25$ a gun would be worth at most 1500$. But alright let's do it your way and limit role-play and drop player count like fly. People like you are a nuisance to the server clearly. You are trying to fix a problem with radical decisions that aren't thought through.

 

I'm done replying with you, you are not getting the bigger picture that decisions like increasing the price ten fold is a bad idea, and the solution is not to increase price. People afk grind, get a gun and go back to their daily "deathmatching". No one wants to dish out a 1-2 months income for a rifle.....
 

Edited August 13, 2023 by 30PiecesOfSilver

[CYBER]

You both make good points, but I think it all depends on where we (the community) want to see ourselves in the next few years. I also disagree that going hunting is a privilege, as I have many people around me who actually go hunting while struggling financially, and mind you I come from the country where the average salary is much lower than in California - plus guns cost a lot more as there are transportation fees added to the original prices, plus the commission the store takes, and even then it's a lot less than what we see on the server. So this argument would not even cut melted butter, let alone any other argument given here.

 

In general, I agree. Players shouldn't be interested in creating new characters just to take the PF license and then distribute weapons for financial gain. Also, there is no OOC rule anymore - Which is good. I think it should be handled IC since the current script allows us to do that, so there's no reason to prevent people from roleplaying.
 

Okay so, I think, there's simple miscommunication between you two, and don't kill me for that

1-Why were the prices increased in the first place? Was that because of OOC rule being removed and now server is desperate to somehow regulate the gun flow or is there any other reason?
2-Do we want illegal factions to have unlimited/uncontrollable supply of weapons and ammunition?
3-Is the regulation fair to the rest of the community that doesn't abuse their PF license?
4-Are the prices reasonable considering server economy and it's proportion to IRL economy?
5-Are we playing the game or living in the game?

I'm dropping white flag over here and I believe prices should correspond to real life prices. Not revert, but become realistic.

I think staff acknowledges the issue and that is the reason why solo scheme was implemented. They will get it right, eventually.

P.S. Bro... It's obvious you are in PD/SD @Wesson

 

P.P.S. Literally whole humanity was hunting before homo erectus developed Yeah.. If you were a good hunter, you got privileged, but hunting, never in human history, was considered a privilege. Question remains - Where are you from?

Edited August 13, 2023 by _CYBER_

[Wesson]

Guns should never reflect the real life counterpart prices in real life, until we start having cars that cost $2000 and $3000's out the door through used car lots.

 

I live in California, you can buy a used car here for $4000, you can't do the same thing in game, everything is at a markup, because you earn $500 for driving a truck a couple of miles, in real life, $500 is some people's weekly paycheck.

 

Pistols shouldn't be cheap, neither should the rifles or the shotgun. The average person cannot afford to splurge on a shotgun or a fancy rifle just because they want to go hunting, you are roleplay an average person when you're playing on the server, unless otherwise shown.

 

Hunting is a privilege the same way, having and being able to afford to drive a car is a privilege. Having the gas in your car to be able to drive your car is a privilege, our ancestors hunting frequently in the past is absolutely incomparable and nonsensical when you're talking about buying weapon that cost several hundreds to a thousand dollars, not including the ammunition, permits, et cetera. Hunting is absolutely a privilege.

[Wesson]

40 minutes ago, _CYBER_ said:

 

P.P.S. Literally whole humanity was hunting before we switched to gathering Yeah.. If you were a good hunter, you got privileged, but hunting, never in human history, was considered a privilege. Question remains - Where are you from?

This has nothing to do with the topic at hand. Being able to have the equipment and financial opportunity to hunt in today's age is most definitely a privilege.