Realistic Roleplay, IC Consequences & Improving RP Quality

[Sparkles]

4 hours ago, Zagros said:

 

I've been roleplaying on the server for about two weeks now, nearly every day. Honestly, I'm quite shocked by the quality of the roleplay I'm experiencing from most of the players. This is not the LS:RP I remember, and I suspect that many of these players don't really care about the server.

 

One instance that surprised me involved a shootout between us (PD) and other players, which resulted in the shooters entering the "injured" mode, or whatever it may be called. In order to avoid being incarcerated, the injured shooters would just use /me commands like "reaches for gun" or "aims gun at officers", prompting some of the officers at the scene to fatally shoot the suspects. In my opinion, this is a problem, as it allows them to avoid prison time, which is ridiculous. Then they simply respawn, acquire a new gun, and repeat the same actions with no real consequences other than losing some money and a weapon. Serious consequences should follow such criminal activities. I understand that if you're dead, you're dead. However, I have yet to see a single suspect who was injured in a shootout with the PD end up in prison.

 

Let's not even mention the driving... It's entirely out of control. There needs to be stricter penalties for poor driving. A simple ticket or warning isn't sufficient. If their driving is completely reckless or they've accumulated too many warnings, we (PD) should be authorized to seize their vehicle, meaning they will never be able to retrieve it. This is a proposal I intend to make. We need harsher penalties to demonstrate to players that this sort of in-character behavior will have consequences.

Unfortunately, the amount of out-of-character chat, poor roleplay quality, and trolling is exceedingly high on the server currently. This is not the LS:RP I'm familiar with. I hope that immediate action will be taken to address this issue. It's reaching a point where roleplaying isn't even enjoyable anymore.

 

I couldn't agree more. That's exactly what I've experienced.

 

Stricter in-character sanctions are needed. For instance, if a player drives recklessly or has accumulates a significant number of warnings or tickets, their vehicle should be confiscated.
Prison sentences should increase if a player commits numerous felonies within a short period of time.
Furthermore, a larger sum of money should be lost whenever a player dies.

 

Would be nice if we could have some input from the management about the current situation. We all want the best in the end.

@Mmartin @Ben @Kane

 

EDIT: I’d like to tag @Fiendfyre for her opinion about the confiscation

The stricter penalties for poor driving need to be across the board. That includes those in legal factions who drive recklessly because who's going to pull them over? 

 

As far as vehicle seizures, peep the penal code - you can impound if they're used in certain crimes. 

 

As for people doing /me's of shooting to get finished off, this was still an issue at the start of 2020 on SAMP when I was an admin. 

 

Death bills are not the answer. Those were annoying on SAMP when we had more money, losing out on money because someone shot you for something that may not be your fault isn't a good answer. 

 

 

[Zagros]

9 minutes ago, Fiendfyre said:

The stricter penalties for poor driving need to be across the board. That includes those in legal factions who drive recklessly because who's going to pull them over? 

 

As far as vehicle seizures, peep the penal code - you can impound if they're used in certain crimes. 

 

As for people doing /me's of shooting to get finished off, this was still an issue at the start of 2020 on SAMP when I was an admin. 

 

Death bills are not the answer. Those were annoying on SAMP when we had more money, losing out on money because someone shot you for something that may not be your fault isn't a good answer. 

 

 

Thanks for the reply!
 

Indeed, but impounding is not the same as having your vehicle confiscate completely. There will be no chance of getting the vehicle back. It belongs to the state who may sell it at auction. As I stated above, I believe that the confiscation of a vehicle should only happen if the owner has accumulated a significant number of warnings. I think losing a vehicle will be a hard lesson, and next time they purchase a vehicle, they will likely be more cautious.

Of course, impouding should be the first solutions, but if the owner continues to drive recklessly despite of having the vehicle impounded, the last resort should be to confiscate it.

This applies for every civilian of Los Santos

Edited August 2, 2023 by Zagros

[Tungsten]

Just now, Zagros said:

Thanks for the reply!
 

Indeed, but impounding is not the same as having your vehicle confiscate completely. There will be no chance of getting the vehicle back. It belongs to the state who may sell it at auction. As I stated above, I believe that the confiscation of a vehicle should only happen if the owner has accumulated a significant number of warnings. I think losing a vehicle will be a hard lesson, and next time they purchase a vehicle, they will likely be more cautious.

Of course, impouding should be the first solutions, but if the owner continues to drive recklessly despite of having the vehicle impounded, the last resort should be to confiscate it.

This applies for every civilian of Los Santos

 

PC 029(c) states: "A judge may order the indefinite seizure of any vehicle used in the commission of the crime when it has been demonstrated that an individual is unlikely to cease committing the offense in the future and such vehicle was used in the commission of the crime."

 

Seizure of a vehicle does not warrant that the state can then put it to auction, since no provision of law states that the State becomes the new owner. When a vehicle is seized, it remains the property of the original owner but is in the possession of law enforcement. City Council would need to pass an ordinance to this effect in order to authorize the auction of a vehicle.

[Sparkles]

57 minutes ago, Zagros said:

Thanks for the reply!
 

Indeed, but impounding is not the same as having your vehicle confiscate completely. There will be no chance of getting the vehicle back. It belongs to the state who may sell it at auction. As I stated above, I believe that the confiscation of a vehicle should only happen if the owner has accumulated a significant number of warnings. I think losing a vehicle will be a hard lesson, and next time they purchase a vehicle, they will likely be more cautious.

Of course, impouding should be the first solutions, but if the owner continues to drive recklessly despite of having the vehicle impounded, the last resort should be to confiscate it.

This applies for every civilian of Los Santos

The indefinite seizure Tungsten mentioned would be a permanent impound, essentially. But without script support it'd require Senior Admin+ I think to park it somewhere - maybe an underground parking lot can be set to a vw and a faction prop so nobody can access the garage and the vehicles are kept there. So the owner can't just go take it out of impound or something 

[GiamPy]

On 7/28/2023 at 3:48 PM, ROZE said:

I'm not sure if this is the right way to do it since people that play 10hrs a day would inevitably be more likely to be CK'd over someone who only plays 2

 

Losing money on death is a good idea though and I'll bring it up in the next lead meeting as a way of removing cash from the server, good idea here

 

I think an optional hardcore mode could be cool that uses a system like or similar to this where dying could be a CK, I remember seeing Martin have some interest in it

 

Actually, I think that losing money upon death is a really interesting concept if designed appropriately.

 

In United States there's the concept of health insurance. Considering that there's big amount of people against forced CK, we could introduce the concept of health insurances.

 

The insurance can be used in multiple scenarios:

 

Pharmacy Drugs

 

Depending on the health insurance's premium, you could pay discounted drugs, heavily discounted, or even for free.

 

Brutally Wounded

 

Anytime a player will visit the hospital because of whatever reason, let's say a player has been brutally wounded, but the Fire Department manages to save them, or somebody goes on their own to heal themselves.

• medical expenses should be calculated based on the Injuries Cost Algorithm (ICA) and paid directly from the character's bank account upon "being healed";

If the player is able to pay the medical expenses, the player will be immediatly respawned like usual.

 

If the player does not have any health insurance, or the insurance is expired, or the player does not have enough money to pay the medical expenses, the player will be placed on a cooldown 50% lower than the player kill cooldown, based on the health insurance premium.

 

Player Kill

 

• medical expenses should be calculated based on Injuries Cost Algorithm (ICA) and paid directly from the character's bank account upon death;
• a temporary cooldown will be placed on the character based on the premium of the character's health insurance.

 

If you not enough money is available in the bank account, the player kill temporary cooldown will be duplicated.

 

The cooldown works like a temporary timed ban and should automatically be lifted once the set time has passed.

 

The player will not be able to login with that character for this amount of time.

 

The cooldown can be lifted by an administrator in case the situation has been voided.

 

Health Insurance Premiums (examples)

 

The cost scales up drammatically based on the quality of the premium, to ensure that people will need to pay hefty amounts to have their cooldowns drastically reduced, therefore discouraging players to die or make shootouts for no reason.

 

No Insurance (default)

 

Cost: free

Deductible: none

Medical Expenses discount (post-deductible): 0%

Pharmacy Drugs discount: 0%

Bronze 

 

Cost: $150/week

Deductible: $2,000 (meaning that you always pay the first $2,000 in a week of medical expenses)

Medical Expenses discount (post-deductible): 40%

Pharmacy Drugs discount: 30% 

 

Silver

 

Cost: $400/week

Deductible: $1,000

Medical Expenses discount (post-deductible): 60%

Pharmacy Drugs discount: 50%

 

Gold

 

Cost: $950/week

Deductible: $500

Medical Expenses discount (post-deductible): 80%

Pharmacy Drugs discount: 70%

 

Platinum

Cost: $1300/week

Deductible: $0

Medical Expenses discount (post-deductible): 90%

Pharmacy Drugs discount: 90%

 

Player Kill Character Cooldown

 

Player Kill Character Cooldown is composed by a 1 hour + 15 minutes minutes every level in-game with that character. This discourages in the long-run deathmatch, but at the same time it's more lenient towards newer players.

 

For example:

• Foo Doe is a level 5 player. His cooldown will be of 2 hours and 15 minutes;
• John Doe is a level 12 player. His cooldown will be of 3 hours and 30 minutes,
• Marko Polo is a level 25 player. His cooldown will be of 7 hours and 15 minutes.

Players under level three will have a static cooldown of 1 hour.

 

Injuries Cost Algorithm (ICA)

 

For example, if you have been shot in the head, the medical expenses will be higher, compared if you were just beaten up to death. A proper algorithm should be designed in order for this to work)

 

If you do not have health insurance, the PK will always place a cooldown on the died character of 60 minutes.

 

These are just some ideas that I have, of course they are not perfect but it could be an interesting approach to investigate further.

[Fantasia]

After skimming through this thread and reading the above response, I can see some of you are really into giving people OOC timeouts as a consequence. While I understand people should be held accountable in some way for their roleplay, especially those who only go around to rob people and don't actively contribute to the roleplay scene, I don't believe locking them out of their character is the way to go. Sure, you can say this will make them make more careful decisions, but it can also disgruntle the player into leaving.

 

Quality over quantity is amazing, but looking at it as someone who plays on GMT-8 where there are 50 plays on by the time I get home, I feel this would lower the playerbase during a critical stage of its life. Over time and as the server grows, I believe my stance would change, however, I don't believe this is something that needs to be implemented right now. Instead, I believe that there should be less leniency toward robbery-focused or deathmatch-focused players. On top of that, I think staff should be more vigilant against these types of players.

 

I also want to mention how easy it is to get a gun on this server. The gun scene is extremely bloated and needs to be looked at again. I know there's been a recent system put in place to limit the amount of guns on the server, but I believe this system is still too easy and there would still be an insane amount of guns floating around. Guns need to be hard to find. They don't provide meaningful roleplay and are only a means to an end. I believe there would be far more meaningful and enjoyable roleplay if, for example, a gang was to have a brawl instead of senselessly killing each other because Tony Soprano sold them guns for one thousand dollars a pop. Adding onto this, I think that Government has done a terrible job in handling PF licenses. The server is now flooded with people who have access to guns legally, and I believe the restrictions are far too easy to meet OOCly. I know the damage has been done, but it's still insanely easy to get one which shouldn't be the case.

 

Don't lock a player out of their character.

Be more vigilant against robbery focused or deathmatch focused players.

Lastly, please make guns more scarce. They're not candy to be given out like it's Halloween.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Fantasia

[GiamPy]

7 hours ago, Fantasia said:

After skimming through this thread and reading the above response, I can see some of you are really into giving people OOC timeouts as a consequence. While I understand people should be held accountable in some way for their roleplay, especially those who only go around to rob people and don't actively contribute to the roleplay scene, I don't believe locking them out of their character is the way to go. Sure, you can say this will make them make more careful decisions, but it can also disgruntle the player into leaving.

 

Quality over quantity is amazing, but looking at it as someone who plays on GMT-8 where there are 50 plays on by the time I get home, I feel this would lower the playerbase during a critical stage of its life. Over time and as the server grows, I believe my stance would change, however, I don't believe this is something that needs to be implemented right now. Instead, I believe that there should be less leniency toward robbery-focused or deathmatch-focused players. On top of that, I think staff should be more vigilant against these types of players.

 

I also want to mention how easy it is to get a gun on this server. The gun scene is extremely bloated and needs to be looked at again. I know there's been a recent system put in place to limit the amount of guns on the server, but I believe this system is still too easy and there would still be an insane amount of guns floating around. Guns need to be hard to find. They don't provide meaningful roleplay and are only a means to an end. I believe there would be far more meaningful and enjoyable roleplay if, for example, a gang was to have a brawl instead of senselessly killing each other because Tony Soprano sold them guns for one thousand dollars a pop. Adding onto this, I think that Government has done a terrible job in handling PF licenses. The server is now flooded with people who have access to guns legally, and I believe the restrictions are far too easy to meet OOCly. I know the damage has been done, but it's still insanely easy to get one which shouldn't be the case.

 

Don't lock a player out of their character.

Be more vigilant against robbery focused or deathmatch focused players.

Lastly, please make guns more scarce. They're not candy to be given out like it's Halloween.

 

Think about games such as Call of Duty or Battlefield. When you die, the consequences are that you are losing positioning, and time, as you may not respawn immediatly most of the times, and need to wait 5-10 seconds. The cooldown would be something similar, something that is annoying enough to make sure that the player makes conscious decisions about his character.

 

EDIT: Another way that this could be done is to have a cooldown that increases every day that you accumulate during that week. For example, the first death it's just 10 minutes cooldown, then 20 minutes, then 30 minutes, and so on. Once the week starts over, the cooldown is reset to 50% of what was accumulated, so if it was 60 minutes, it comes 30 minutes.

 

In this way the cooldown won't be too to high at the beginning, but at the same time it make you think about what you're doing, if you die too many times, it means that you're doing something wrong and that you need to think about it, during the cooldown. Ooor, you can play, and not be "temporarily banned" during the cooldown, however you must remain inside the hospital to recover (similar to the prison that you can not leave until the time has finished). If you logout, you'd be respawned inside the hospital, until the cooldown has finished.

Edited August 8, 2023 by GiamPy
Adds another alternative

[Tungsten]

2 hours ago, GiamPy said:

 

Think about games such as Call of Duty or Battlefield. When you die, the consequences are that you are losing positioning, and time, as you may not respawn immediatly most of the times, and need to wait 5-10 seconds. The cooldown would be something similar, something that is annoying enough to make sure that the player makes conscious decisions about his character.

 

EDIT: Another way that this could be done is to have a cooldown that increases every day that you accumulate during that week. For example, the first death it's just 10 minutes cooldown, then 20 minutes, then 30 minutes, and so on. Once the week starts over, the cooldown is reset to 50% of what was accumulated, so if it was 60 minutes, it comes 30 minutes.

 

In this way the cooldown won't be too to high at the beginning, but at the same time it make you think about what you're doing, if you die too many times, it means that you're doing something wrong and that you need to think about it, during the cooldown. Ooor, you can play, and not be "temporarily banned" during the cooldown, however you must remain inside the hospital to recover (similar to the prison that you can not leave until the time has finished). If you logout, you'd be respawned inside the hospital, until the cooldown has finished.

 

The idea of being restricted into a hospital sounds a bit like prison, though it doesn't exactly align with how things happen in real life.

 

A few caveats:

 

1. In the US, you can leave a hospital at any time unless you're under arrest (in which case they usually handcuff or restrain you to the bed)

 

2. What if nobody else is in the hospital? No hospital staff or players? Now it seems like admin jail... lonely.

 

--

 

A counter-proposal:

 

What about permanent injuries after going into a brutally-wounded state? If you "die" you are actually brutally wounded, and some number of injuries are added to the character that have long-term effects like reducing speed, making it harder to aim, etc. - that way, if you die a lot you are accruing many injuries over time that have detrimental effects on the character. The only way to remove these long-term ailments might be to receive several treatments (one per day, for a certain number of days) from a doctor at the hospital.

 

Respawning at the hospital is fine, but in my view it's pointless unless it's coupled with an incentive to actually undergo long-term treatment. Otherwise, you get situations where Tyrone is in the hospital recovering then within 2 hours of being released he's in another shootout. With injuries he would be severely limited in his ability to participate in a shootout until he receives hospital treatment for a few days.

 

Example:

1. Tyrone gets shot in a gunfight, he gets hit with a few 9mm rounds.

2. He goes into "brutally wounded" state.

3. When he respawns, he is in the hospital - still "wounded" but not brutally wounded.

4. If he has outstanding charges, he instead respawns in the prison hospital with charges automatically applied.

5. If he leaves the hospital immediately, he will have a bunch of impediments - shaky screen, hard to aim, slower run speed, etc.

6. He must receive 3 "treatments" to remove these impediments. Doctors can do /operation on him once every 12 hours. This incentivizes him to get medical treatment.

    - This number of treatments would also increase with different injuries, higher calibers, etc. so that the recovery process is much more. It would also stack, so if you haven't completed treatments but are shot again you will have those disabilities and treatments added on. This is an incentive to stay out of conflict while recovering.

    - For example, getting hit by a bunch of 5.56x45 might mean 10 treatments required (10 days minimum to recovery fully), while a 9mm might mean only 2-3 treatments required.

    - Maybe drugs like morphine, etc. can be used as a way to "temporarily remove" the disability effects, at the cost of negative effects long-term.

 

 

@Clown_Taxi suggested something very similar with respect to death being brutal wounding instead, and charges leading to automatic imprisonment. Admittedly i'm being convinced.

Edited August 8, 2023 by Tungsten

[Aerwyn]

So my question regarding this as it's a gernally good idea in my opinion. What if there is no doctor would there be a way to NPC around that or?

[Tungsten]

3 minutes ago, Aerwyn said:

So my question regarding this as it's a gernally good idea in my opinion. What if there is no doctor would there be a way to NPC around that or?

 

Perhaps there could be a way to do the same just by being in the hospital, but only if 0 FD online?

[Clown_Taxi]

1 hour ago, Tungsten said:

@Clown_Taxi suggested something very similar with respect to death being brutal wounding instead, and charges leading to automatic imprisonment. Admittedly i'm being convinced.

Appreciated!

 

I still think that an auto-imprisonment based on what illegals you were carrying and/or what kind of a criminal charge a PD issued on you when you were in your brutally wounded state is a solid way of approach, probably not heavy script-wise.

 

If you want to also incorporate hospital into this process, we already have the logs IG on where you got hit by which ammunition. It should not be so code-heavy to assign them as multipliers on how long of a timeout you would receive to stay in hospital after using /respawnme, leaving your character in a laying locked state in ICU. Hell, let them use the phone or something, so people can call up friends for a visit. And if medical personnel is online, they can shorten this period by actually operating on you with their faction specific commands.

 

In this case, if you were carrying illegals at your death, your next stop after hospital would be prison, on a determined sentence as I've explained above. If you were not carrying any, you step out the hospital once your stay in ICU is done.

 

I have the feel that impairments in general and proposed ways of healing  would not be viable script-wise but I don't know. One thing I know is that people will try to leave each other handicapped over OOC beef, sucking the fun out of their gameplay.

 

If we're gonna apply impairments over case-to-case and not automated, well that's a brand new hassle for the admin team, which I think they're not excited to be a part of.

 

TL;DR, not a huge fan of tinkering with basic controls but I don't see an issue with leading PKs into prison/hospital systems as described above. Better than a naughty-boy admin jail and forces reckless players into either hospital or prison RP potentially.

[Tungsten]

16 minutes ago, Clown_Taxi said:

Appreciated!

 

I still think that an auto-imprisonment based on what illegals you were carrying and/or what kind of a criminal charge a PD issued on you when you were in your brutally wounded state is a solid way of approach, probably not heavy script-wise.

 

If you want to also incorporate hospital into this process, we already have the logs IG on where you got hit by which ammunition. It should not be so code-heavy to assign them as multipliers on how long of a timeout you would receive to stay in hospital after using /respawnme, leaving your character in a laying locked state in ICU. Hell, let them use the phone or something, so people can call up friends for a visit. And if medical personnel is online, they can shorten this period by actually operating on you with their faction specific commands.

 

In this case, if you were carrying illegals at your death, your next stop after hospital would be prison, on a determined sentence as I've explained above. If you were not carrying any, you step out the hospital once your stay in ICU is done.

 

I have the feel that impairments in general and proposed ways of healing  would not be viable script-wise but I don't know. One thing I know is that people will try to leave each other handicapped over OOC beef, sucking the fun out of their gameplay.

 

If we're gonna apply impairments over case-to-case and not automated, well that's a brand new hassle for the admin team, which I think they're not excited to be a part of.

 

TL;DR, not a huge fan of tinkering with basic controls but I don't see an issue with leading PKs into prison/hospital systems as described above. Better than a naughty-boy admin jail and forces reckless players into either hospital or prison RP potentially.

 

A few things to add/clarify as to what my position entails:

 

1. A person should not be forced to go stay in the hospital, only incentivized.

 

2. Maybe instead of having to go back to a doctor X number of times, a proper role of medicine could be given that alleviates the handicaps slightly over time. For example, when you get out of the hospital you will have negative effects like shaky screen, slower running, etc. etc. and the prescription you are given will help over time. This would need to be balanced, however, to ensure that immediate recovery is not possible without using "something stronger" like a proper drug.

 

3. The Admin Heal command should remove any handicaps as well.

 

4. As for OOC beef, that is something easily ameliorated by reporting on the forums. If admins can reset handicaps, this becomes a non-issue.

[Clown_Taxi]

21 hours ago, Tungsten said:

 

A few things to add/clarify as to what my position entails:

 

1. A person should not be forced to go stay in the hospital, only incentivized.

 

2. Maybe instead of having to go back to a doctor X number of times, a proper role of medicine could be given that alleviates the handicaps slightly over time. For example, when you get out of the hospital you will have negative effects like shaky screen, slower running, etc. etc. and the prescription you are given will help over time. This would need to be balanced, however, to ensure that immediate recovery is not possible without using "something stronger" like a proper drug.

 

3. The Admin Heal command should remove any handicaps as well.

 

4. As for OOC beef, that is something easily ameliorated by reporting on the forums. If admins can reset handicaps, this becomes a non-issue.

 

1- I think in the potential "brutally wounded" state that we're talking about, since you're hospitalized within an ICU unit, it's not like you're forced to be there but you're simply in such a bad condition that you cannot get up.

2- Oh, so you're talking about something like the alcohol tampering system we already have in the game. Yes that might work, even you might have different pricing options for prescriptions that would speed up the tampering process or something. Only thing that I would rule out is visual handicaps such as shaky/colored screen since it can be pretty nauseating for people on the spectrum of photosensitive epilepsy or similar conditions. Slower running, worsened aim or getting locked into a walking style such as "Injured" until you're properly healed are all fine I guess.

3 and 4 - Thinking about it again, yes. Admins would potentially be able to remove any handicaps caused by anti-RP injurings like being a victim in DM. However, I still have the slight feeling that the moderator team would not want to grant us a new type of /re which will be a part of their daily routine.

Edited August 9, 2023 by Clown_Taxi

[Yours Truly Sesto]

Reach out to one of my guys at Valenti LLC, they'll be able to help you out. Your first six months at the firm are as an outsider... you make one hundred and fifty dollars a week. After you're done training, you take the P.M.D.I.T.M.O.A.F. (Pat Me Down In The Middle Of A Forest) test. When you pass, you become an associate and you'll be collecting debts for your capo. After you collect forty debts you begin working for yourself and then... sky's the limit. Now a word about being an outsider. The other outsiders and associates, your parents, whoever: they're gonna give you shit about it. And it's true, a hundred and fifty a week is not a lot of money, but pay no mind. You need to learn the business and this is the time to do it. Once you earn the trust of your capo none of it will matter.

[Jacob_Reeves]

so you have to roleplay 6 moths just to get in ?

Edited August 11, 2023 by Jacob_Reeves