Let's Discuss Code Enforcement

[GhostOfProtocol]

Hello!

Let's have a chat about the SAMP Government faction, moreso their Code Enforcement branch. Before we begin, I just want to make it clear that I have no real issues with Code Enforcement as a concept. I am very heavily supportive of business licenses, there is no issue with quickly filling out a five minute form and having a quick inspection prior to opening. That bit of the Code Enforcement branch, absolutely no issues with.

 

However, to me that is where the role of Code Enforcement should end. I personally believe their "random spot checks" they do are going much too far recently. I gave an example earlier on discord of a business I saw that was meant to have a guard as part of licensing conditions apparently (or something like that, I'm not entirely sure). They tried, couldn't get one but still opened to provide that roleplay hub. It was genuinely busy in there and Code Enforcement killed it. I know the argument will be "oh well they should have had a guard" but a server of one hundred it really isn't that easy. Very few people wanna stand there like a bot going "ID please" and "/me checks ID" on a loop. The current state of the server doesn't justify it.  We shouldn't be targeting licensed businesses once they've done the work.

 

I'll summarise quickly. I don't think Code Enforcement should be actively taking down businesses that are looking to actively bring roleplay to LS-RP.  I get the purpose of Code Enforcement and I love the concept behind them. I just don't think the concept unfortunately fits the server in its current place. I'm all for business registration but we shouldn't be punishing businesses who are just trying to bring active RP to the server in the servers current states.

 

I'd appreciate others thoughts on this.

 

 

[Browman1945]

1 hour ago, GhostOfProtocol said:

Hello!

Let's have a chat about the SAMP Government faction, moreso their Code Enforcement branch. Before we begin, I just want to make it clear that I have no real issues with Code Enforcement as a concept. I am very heavily supportive of business licenses, there is no issue with quickly filling out a five minute form and having a quick inspection prior to opening. That bit of the Code Enforcement branch, absolutely no issues with.

 

However, to me that is where the role of Code Enforcement should end. I personally believe their "random spot checks" they do are going much too far recently. I gave an example earlier on discord of a business I saw that was meant to have a guard as part of licensing conditions apparently (or something like that, I'm not entirely sure). They tried, couldn't get one but still opened to provide that roleplay hub. It was genuinely busy in there and Code Enforcement killed it. I know the argument will be "oh well they should have had a guard" but a server of one hundred it really isn't that easy. Very few people wanna stand there like a bot going "ID please" and "/me checks ID" on a loop. The current state of the server doesn't justify it.  We shouldn't be targeting licensed businesses once they've done the work.

 

I'll summarise quickly. I don't think Code Enforcement should be actively taking down businesses that are looking to actively bring roleplay to LS-RP.  I get the purpose of Code Enforcement and I love the concept behind them. I just don't think the concept unfortunately fits the server in its current place. I'm all for business registration but we shouldn't be punishing businesses who are just trying to bring active RP to the server in the servers current states.

 

I'd appreciate others thoughts on this.

 

 

Let alone guard, I barely had any visitors at my mechanic shop. Luckily, I still have a small circle around. We all know the player base is dwindling, yet this Code Enforcement division seems intent on killing business owners by sealing the biz, whenever you put something on /samaps, they show up no matter what. You can’t just expect business owners to hire guards with the current state of the server, instead, they should be allowing the business owners to create opportunities for roleplay with players.

I remember when the server was at its peak, but Code Enforcement kind of ruined it, their ex director played a master and pet type of game where bribery was possible. I get it, if we still had 200+ players daily, you could justify this all day, but the truth is, we simply don’t have those numbers anymore.

Code Enforcement, we don’t need a group of people ruining businesses ICly. Man, you should be grateful that business owners are at least trying to create scenes and opportunities for the players.

TLDR: I share the same perspective as the TS.

[husoparac11]

Hello peeps,

 

I hope this finds you all well, I am the Divison Manager in Code Enforcement and our idea of pursuing businesses and to give them stress or whatever is not in our nature. We do sometimes tell people to find guards but not always. I know the position of having someone check IDs can be boring and whatever but yet again its realism. You can have underage people enter premises that are 21+ (IRL and in LSRP, e.g. nightclubs, Stripclubs etc). To have some doing ID checks is still part of the RP and should be looked at from a perspective to have a realistic RP however. 

 

We let businesses off with a lot of slack and dont enforce rules to a huge amount as I know personally its hard to find staff for every position but we try to enforce at least the bare minimum. 

To add, CEB has no one corrupt and bribery is a no no. We just try to give positive and realistic RP to the best of our capabilites and to the best we can. We dont try to essentially f people over rather just have more fun and more RP. Saying " CEB comes and ruins the opening", we barely do. We have closed a handful of businesses since my time in CEB and the reasons to closure more essentially more than justified and every closure has a case file for it, so no business is being treated in any sense unfairly or being pushed to do more than others.

Edited 7 hours ago by husoparac11

[luo]

I gotta disagree with you on a few points as person from CEB management.

 

First of all this is a hard roleplay server, and if we’re serious about building a realistic economy and community, then businesses gotta follow rules and licensing. Security for clubs, casinos, strip places whatever, it’s not a “luxury” it’s literally a must. Those are hotspots where gangs, mafias hang around, fights break out all the time. If you let that run without any control it’s just chaos, and Code Enforcement ends up being pointless.

 

Second, the whole “not enough players” thing really isn’t a reason to ignore the rules. If someone doesn’t have the resources to run the business (like security), then the answer isn’t just opening anyway, it’s either find an IC solution (hire someone, make ads, cooperate with another group) or wait until you can do it properly. Otherwise it’s just comfort RP, and LS-RP never was about that.

 

Third, Code Enforcement doesn’t “kill” businesses, it actually makes them more consistent and higher quality. Think about a new player joining the server, walking into a club or casino with zero order, no checks, no security. Does that look like serious RP? Or is it better when you got rules, inspections, processes that make the city feel alive and like an actual place?

 

Also, like person from the leadership of Roze Enterprise, we offered free staff for all kinds of businesses. We covered the cost ourselves, spending like 10m+ every month just for wages and organization. And still, many players hated on us just because our staff tried to keep order and leave a good impression for new players. Players who just joined, who needed support and encouragement to stay and actually build something here.

 

No matter the outcome, our team of 20 people is never gonna stop trying to improve civilian RP and support new players. We’ve been doing this for the last 7–8 years, in all kinds of ways, and we’ll keep doing it as long as this server is alive.

Edited 7 hours ago by luo

[zed_black]

Hi, CEB officer here.

I won't talk about the realisticity and the RP quality of what you offer too much, since people already talked about that..

 

We don't create the laws that we enforce, so the discussion shouldn't be about us, but instead whether the laws (or rules) themselves need changing. The only thing this current discussion will bring is more hate towards CEB, from people who we issued fines to or closed their businesses.

If you want us to let people open businesses unrealistically without guards or let them have secret dungeons under their businesses, so be it, just change the laws.

 

You said that RPing a guard is boring, but I see it is as a great opportunity for new players to meet other people, make connections and also get some money, instead of grinding truck deliveries.

As for us closing down businesses - While I do feel bad when closing down a business because it does kill the roleplay,  we are not doing it for every violation, only for serious violations or after multiple warnings or uncooperative business owners.

Personally, I try not ty close a business down immediately after it opens. We also try to do it in a way that brings more roleplay, which works when a lot of people are around. I also see it as a positive thing, because it brings more interesting RP that you don't see every time a nightclub opens.

 

Quote

However, to me that is where the role of Code Enforcement should end

If you think RPing a guard is boring and repetitive, and not many people want to do it, don't you think the same could be said about CEB if all we did is inspections and forum work? What's the point of it anyways if it won't be enforced? 

I don't have an issue if it is decided that we should not be closing down businesses, and instead deal with it in another way, but to say that all we need to do is forum work... at this point it makes more sense to close the faction altogether.

[Alex76swallowme]

The server isn’t dying because of CEB, it’s dying because business owners aren’t showing effort or offering anything new. Enforcement isn’t the problem.

 

[Cream]

I stand behind what CEB brings to this server and that is structure, something we often lack in many areas of roleplay. If you commit to running a business, it shouldn't be hard to dedicate time to managing it and focusing on the employment side. If your business fails to offer something interesting to the players, it will naturally fail to succeed, just like in real life. CEB is simply there to remind you to keep it structured.

Edited 5 hours ago by Cream

[Aberdeen]

I'm not the biggest fan of bureaucracy but if you've put in the effort to set up and promote a business that requires door staff but come up short when it's time to open, that's an oversight on your part. You wouldn't /openbiz a bar without somebody to serve drinks.

 

Do these club bouncers have to be the best roleplayers in the world? No, but they can really heighten the experience of your business if you mingle with the right crowd. In the Killeen Mob, we were a bunch of street-level toughs and would recruit muscle for our club out of our nearby gym. Like actual nightclubs, the door staff would usually give female characters a free pass on the ID check just to fill the dancefloor, taking the risk of letting in patrons that weren't yet old enough to drink legally. For Sova on Star Street, the bouncers are sourced from the local Armenian Power gang members. Without the presence of CEB, we'd probably still have hired bouncers but the fact they actively enforce gives the RP a dimension of risk.

 

A degree of corruption / fallibility should be allowed to make CEB more interesting to roleplay with though. Right now it feels too caught up in the robocop mentality the law enforcement factions have been battling since time immemorial and OOC faction rules are only going to hinder any movement away from that. You're supposed to be characters first and foremost, not some homogenous hivemind of iPad drones.

[husoparac11]

3 hours ago, Aberdeen said:

I'm not the biggest fan of bureaucracy but if you've put in the effort to set up and promote a business that requires door staff but come up short when it's time to open, that's an oversight on your part. You wouldn't /openbiz a bar without somebody to serve drinks.

 

Do these club bouncers have to be the best roleplayers in the world? No, but they can really heighten the experience of your business if you mingle with the right crowd. In the Killeen Mob, we were a bunch of street-level toughs and would recruit muscle for our club out of our nearby gym. Like actual nightclubs, the door staff would usually give female characters a free pass on the ID check just to fill the dancefloor, taking the risk of letting in patrons that weren't yet old enough to drink legally. For Sova on Star Street, the bouncers are sourced from the local Armenian Power gang members. Without the presence of CEB, we'd probably still have hired bouncers but the fact they actively enforce gives the RP a dimension of risk.

 

A degree of corruption / fallibility should be allowed to make CEB more interesting to roleplay with though. Right now it feels too caught up in the robocop mentality the law enforcement factions have been battling since time immemorial and OOC faction rules are only going to hinder any movement away from that. You're supposed to be characters first and foremost, not some homogenous hivemind of iPad drones.

I do agree with you on the fact that a bit of corruption would be more interesting to play with CEB but also here lays the issue with I believe its not allowed; We are a small group of RPers who are willing to actively RP this type of RP. We are literally around 10 active officers and in which if any type of corruption was to be had it would just be ICly so easy to catch, e.g. if we was a 40+ officers faction where as like LSSD or LSPD are then it would be much easier to allow people to be corrupt to a certain degree and have more freedom. If anyone was to get corruption right now in CEB and one fuck up, the faction could get a bad name again. I have been working countlessly, on forums, IG and everywhere to revive the activity of this faction as much as possible and the help with great people who have joined it has been thriving. It has been a joy to RP with them all. People can say we might be "ruining" business but at end of the day we are enforcing rules and making people not slack on the small bits which makes this server good.