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It completely invalidates it because the supposed summary was inaccurate. You can't summarize something that's not even one of the points brought up and the quote proves that. That's putting two and two together and getting five. Legal roleplay is just as important as illegal roleplay. None should be prioritized but neither one should be neglected or given precedence. There must be an equal balance. But to synopsize the argument: I'm not suggesting that LSRP should deviate from its system, what I'm suggestion is that it takes advantage of known issues in its own and other communities and corrects it. A lot what has people crossing its fingers for LSRP is problems that were on LSRP but weren't as bad. If you can rectify the problems and be receptive to constructive criticism without being sensitive to it then that's a step in the right direction. A lot of the time constructive criticism is perceived as discrediting when in reality all it is is a suggestion in the interest of bettering something. A lot of it has to do with miscomprehension as well. Instead of saying, "the server has so many problems," I'm saying "the server could be better if..." At the end of the day what I'm trying to do is bring forward an opinion that has the potential to better the server. Again, it's an opinion but it's one I feel is shared by the wider community. 1. People with no experience in a genre shouldn't be handling reports that require experience in said genre. 2. People with no experience in a category or minimal experience in a category shouldn't be making decisions based on "rules" alone. They need to be able to put themselves in a character's shoes. 3. In terms of transparency I feel that players should be clued in on the decisions that either negatively or positively effect their characters or accounts. These "discussions" sometimes remain hidden and secluded and I've witnessed my fair share of hidden agendas impacting decisions. It cancels out the bias claims that are always associated to subgroups and gives players clarity. 4. Be consistent and forthright. If the community plays on this "case by case" or an arbitrary system then it opens it up to claims of double standard. Don't enforce a standard at your discretion. It must be on-size-fits-all. 5. Be engaging and ingenuous with the community. "Verified discussions" was a step in the right direction but after the departure of the administration that implemented it it was neglected and the public were given very few answers. A system like that should be implemented universally. 6. Put more power in the community's hands. In most communities discussions and decisions are open and closed. Meaning that any administrator or support member can close threads based on their discretion. In other words, if they don't like or agree with it then it's not worth the time of day. Stop this and let them play out. 7. Don't confuse "heavy" roleplay with hyperrealism. On other servers your faction is given virtually zero chance of existence if it doesn't go in line with Southern California. In a nutshell, if you're not an Armenian, Russian, skinhead or gang banger then you're held to an outrageous standard. Let players do what they want as long as their concept treats San Andreas like Southern California. All this "they wouldn't be here" shit is nothing more than micromanagement. If their concept isn't too far fetched and outside the lines of realism then leave them be. Who gives a fuck if there's three Italian crime families and a Serbian faction? 8. Put more investigative powers in the PD and SD's hands. Good criminal roleplay means good law enforcement roleplay. They bounce off of each other. 9. Make people value their characters. Enforce a CK rule if they put their lives at risk. 10. Stop with the excessive amount of OOC prison time unless it's murder. Maybe even repeat robberies to try and crack down on chain robberies. People will just name change and it ruins longevity and continuation and also investigations. 11. Give players breathing space. Less micromanagement and bureaucracy. If we have a business and change characters, let us keep our move our businesses without stupid levels of scrutiny. We shouldn't have to account for every little thing our characters do down to the color of its socks. 12. Don't lower the standard because "they're all we've got." There's always ways around work load, most just don't want to spread it around. I wasn't planning on writing this much so that "synopsis" I had planned is out the window But this has been on the back of my mind for months. And for the record, as a former member of staff, very little in the aforementioned "staff meetings" ever came to fruition. Most of what was said or brought forward was wrote down like something was being done but very rarely was. It was always put in the rear-view. But a fresh start will change that, I hope. Again, it's food for thought and was brought forward constructively. At the end of the day it's going to be a collective effort. Why not start prior to launch?

If you paid attention to the substance instead of the quote in a reply to another contributor then maybe you wouldn't mistake the purpose of the thread. The focus of the thread is to help LSRP, not any other server. Between the reference to aphorisms and the mention of quotes I'd say the only reason you've posted is to exhibit your competence in literature. Well done, you can read and write. So if that's what you take from this thread then I'd ask you to stay out of the discussion and leave it to those who are trying to promote change and raise awareness to the subject at hand. It's not exploitive, it's opportunistic. There's plenty of light roleplay servers on both platforms but there's been very few English speaking heavy roleplay servers with a decent player base. But again, I suppose that depends on your interpretation of "heavy." There's no need to point out the obvious. If your take on this is the "focus of this server is lsrp and lsrp only" then you're talking to a brick wall.

I think currently GTAW finds itself in the shoes LSRP were once in. By that I mean that they have a monopoly over the genre simply because there is no alternative, similarly to our community on SA:MP. Players stuck around because there was nowhere else to go. On GTAW what you've got is a server and community tailored around legal roleplayers, ran by legal roleplayers and heavily influenced by legal roleplayers. One sticking point that comes up time and time again is their IFM's lack of engagement, transparency and knowledge and this is the driving force behind the bulk of our roleplayers leaving their server. Now, a lot of people use this a basis to promote their roleplay but the fact of the matter is that it's the truth, their lack of regard for their illegal community is what will offer LSRP a way in. Over the course of the last few months it's been more evident than ever and their management's obliviousness to the fact is what adds insult to injury. For this server to hit the ground running what you have to do is capitalize on the shortcomings of the aforementioned server and strike while the iron's hot. Transparency will be a key factor in attracting these players. Deliverance will be what keeps them and the expectations and promises need to be fulfilled in order for this to come to fruition at all. Illegal roleplay shouldn't be prioritized by any means but it should be treated with the same amount of respect as legal roleplay and given the same opportunity of prosperity. Illegal roleplay has always been the foundation of LSRP but what made LSRP so consistent was its honesty, its openness and its lucidity. Transparency was always there one way or another. One look at their faction's forum and you realize that their faction management team are driving people into LSRP's arms and for years it's gone unnoticed and unaddressed because their has been no alternative. You can forget about servers like LCRP making a wave because they're not battled tested like LSRP is and don't have the following LSRP do, coupled with the fact that their management are as corrupt as the day is long. All these make-shift beliefs and idealisms are used to lure people in but it's nothing more than a false pretense and a power grab. In other words, in certain communities if you don't agree with somebody's modus operandi, they will find a way to ban you, silence you or misinterpret you. On LSRP I believe that the number one priority should be to put the power in the player's hands. For this to overtake its competitors and scratch the surface it's got to recognize the flaws of communities that don't work. LSRP is genuinely the last hope for those interested in illegal roleplay. We need to do as much as we can to emphasize that and promote the fact that the community and management are receptive to that or we're back to square one. It's in all of our interests if we're on the same wave length. All old community politics should be disregarded and the slate should be wiped clean. This will only work if we're all on the same page. Make LSRP great again.

Please don't come on here with your false sentiments & lets not spread any rumors. Martin holds weekly staff meetings along with the early supporters and actively participates in Discord and on the forum everyday. This shouldn't have to be explained to anyone whose been paying attention but I rather end this here before it starts up. Thank you.

hot

Whilst there are some valid points here from the OP but I think there's a lot of room for improvements on both sides. Having said that I also think there's a lot of band-wagoning going on and honestly, I find it hypocritical and kind of sad tbh because I have an inkling that perhaps some of people in this thread were probably the ones constantly saying "LSRP is dead, they're too late to have a GTAV server, move on." just a few months ago lol Don't get me wrong though, some competition for GTAW will do wonders for both servers and I'm certainly looking forward to having other options.

Overall a worthwhile read. You've brought forward some key pros and cons from both the LS-RP and GTA:W servers, the only thing that I don't really see is what the end goal is for starting a thread like this except raising awareness in some sense which I do believe is common knowledge nowadays, people know about the problems that GTA:W has, the problems that LS-RP has and vice versa. I do believe that this is some sort of benevolence and that in general there was no ill will or depreciation for GTA:W in a sense from your point of view but I do think that at the same time some passionate people might take offense which is completely fine. Both servers are in a league of their own. They have their negatives and positives like most other things. With that being said I don't think that we should indulge in retrospective of LS-RP's past cons in order to avail a positive result by changing them to pros simply because Grand Theft Auto V is new waters for a shark like LS-RP. I do believe that in general there are a lot of other great roleplay servers with their own respective great communities that some of our community members might view in a sense as competitors for LS-RP but at the end of the day I do believe that LS-RP isn't in general in competition at all and that isn't me being out of line by saying so, simply stating the fact that LS-RP is a home community for members who've spent years on it. You've also covered the topic of staff corruption in a sense where you said; And once again I do agree with you because you do bring up a very solid point but I do disagree in general with the idea of creating a thread with a big title like "Learn from GTAW's Mistakes" simply because I don't think that's right. I believe that in the long run we don't have a reason to comment on GTA:W's infrastructure or way of handling things from the perspective of us being LS-RP members. I'm more than sure that both the LS-RP and GTA:W management are doing their best in their own way and are more than aware of some of these problems that you've brought forward in this topic. And I do completely stand with you on that. But if there is some issue or faultiness to address about GTA:W, why do it on the LS-RP forum? I do kind of guess that this thread serves its purpose for LS-RP community members to comment their own thoughts. I do also guess that you've created it so that key people who are able to make a change and avoid these bumps or bruises that you see that GTA:W is experiencing can see them in order for LS-RP not hitting them on their way up which is why I don't think you've meant to insult GTA:W in any way with this thread. Overall if I got something wrong feel free to correct me, I was merely stating my own thoughts on the matter.

nice

Zaw-Zaw gets a cookie!

Ayyyyy glad you’re here! Living legend!