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Learn from Past Mistakes


Chuckles
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16 minutes ago, tut said:

 

Alright I'll try to address this in points.

 

 0.  The "illegal roleplay shouldn't be prioritized" quote you brought up doesn't invalidate anything I said, as the main issue brought forth by yourself that we need to "learn" from is illegal roleplay being the "foundation". Which is solid feedback as we've been hearing it a lot.  I was just more so pointing out that being the main points amongst all the text walls.

 

1. Never said it helped any other server.

 

2. Thank you.

 

3. No, I stated the "obvious" to more direct the conversation towards what you felt the "old lsrp" had as mistakes that we need to learn from.  For example one of the things was transparency, which was responded to with weekly staff meetings.

 

4. True.

 

5. (3)

 

 

I'll reiterate mainly because this is typing and you can't really hear how I'm saying this as it's in a none argumentative way, but I fully agree with your point. The point of making all aspects equal and not putting one over the other (I.E) putting illegal roleplay down while cratering towards legal . My point is that I think you'll be hard pressed to find someone in staff who doesn't agree with this and it's already an issue is being addressed, keeping all aspects equal.  I'm just looking for more honest past mistakes from our community that could be addressed.

 

 

 

😂 😂 

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It completely invalidates it because the supposed summary was inaccurate. You can't summarize something that's not even one of the points brought up and the quote proves that. That's putting two and two together and getting five. Legal roleplay is just as important as illegal roleplay. None should be prioritized but neither one should be neglected or given precedence. There must be an equal balance.

 

But to synopsize the argument:

 

I'm not suggesting that LSRP should deviate from its system, what I'm suggestion is that it takes advantage of known issues in its own and other communities and corrects it. A lot what has people crossing its fingers for LSRP is problems that were on LSRP but weren't as bad. If you can rectify the problems and be receptive to constructive criticism without being sensitive to it then that's a step in the right direction. A lot of the time constructive criticism is perceived as discrediting when in reality all it is is a suggestion in the interest of bettering something. A lot of it has to do with miscomprehension as well.

 

Instead of saying, "the server has so many problems," I'm saying "the server could be better if..." At the end of the day what I'm trying to do is bring forward an opinion that has the potential to better the server. Again, it's an opinion but it's one I feel is shared by the wider community.

 

  • 1. People with no experience in a genre shouldn't be handling reports that require experience in said genre.
  • 2. People with no experience in a category or minimal experience in a category shouldn't be making decisions based on "rules" alone. They need to be able to put themselves in a character's shoes.
  • 3. In terms of transparency I feel that players should be clued in on the decisions that either negatively or positively effect their characters or accounts. These "discussions" sometimes remain hidden and secluded and I've witnessed my fair share of hidden agendas impacting decisions. It cancels out the bias claims that are always associated to subgroups and gives players clarity.
  • 4. Be consistent and forthright. If the community plays on this "case by case" or an arbitrary system then it opens it up to claims of double standard. Don't enforce a standard at your discretion. It must be on-size-fits-all.
  • 5. Be engaging and ingenuous with the community. "Verified discussions" was a step in the right direction but after the departure of the administration that implemented it it was neglected and the public were given very few answers. A system like that should be implemented universally.
  • 6. Put more power in the community's hands. In most communities discussions and decisions are open and closed. Meaning that any administrator or support member can close threads based on their discretion. In other words, if they don't like or agree with it then it's not worth the time of day. Stop this and let them play out.
  • 7. Don't confuse "heavy" roleplay with hyperrealism. On other servers your faction is given virtually zero chance of existence if it doesn't go in line with Southern California. In a nutshell, if you're not an Armenian, Russian, skinhead or gang banger then you're held to an outrageous standard. Let players do what they want as long as their concept treats San Andreas like Southern California. All this "they wouldn't be here" shit is nothing more than micromanagement. If their concept isn't too far fetched and outside the lines of realism then leave them be. Who gives a fuck if there's three Italian crime families and a Serbian faction?
  • 8. Put more investigative powers in the PD and SD's hands. Good criminal roleplay means good law enforcement roleplay. They bounce off of each other.
  • 9. Make people value their characters. Enforce a CK rule if they put their lives at risk. 
  • 10. Stop with the excessive amount of OOC prison time unless it's murder. Maybe even repeat robberies to try and crack down on chain robberies. People will just name change and it ruins longevity and continuation and also investigations.
  • 11. Give players breathing space. Less micromanagement and bureaucracy. If we have a business and change characters, let us keep our move our businesses without stupid levels of scrutiny. We shouldn't have to account for every little thing our characters do down to the color of its socks.
  • 12. Don't lower the standard because "they're all we've got." There's always ways around work load, most just don't want to spread it around.

I wasn't planning on writing this much so that "synopsis" I had planned is out the window 😂 But this has been on the back of my mind for months. And for the record, as a former member of staff, very little in the aforementioned "staff meetings" ever came to fruition. Most of what was said or brought forward was wrote down like something was being done but very rarely was. It was always put in the rear-view. But a fresh start will change that, I hope.

 

Again, it's food for thought and was brought forward constructively. At the end of the day it's going to be a collective effort. Why not start prior to launch?

Edited by Chuckles
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3 hours ago, Kane said:

 

Please don't come on here with your false sentiments & lets not spread any rumors. Martin holds weekly staff meetings along with the early supporters and actively participates in Discord and on the forum everyday. This shouldn't have to be explained to anyone whose been paying attention but I rather end this here before it starts up. Thank you.

Also, every time I look at Mmartin's name on discord it's "Playing: Rage Multiplayer," so you know he's putting the hours in.

 

Like Kane said, please don't derail the thread with pot-shots. The thread's centred around fixing idiosyncrasies, not faulting the server. If we can all combat the negatives and turn them into positives then by launch we'll already have one foot forward.

Edited by Chuckles
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I get the whole "If admins aren't experienced in x genre then they shouldn't take the reports" argument, but you're forgetting that they are able to communicate with other staff over discord for second opinions if they're ever not sure. Illegal rp reports are usually one of two things;

 

1: They're pretty black and white metagame, powergame or dm reports which don't need any illegal rp experience to know it's outright stupid.

 

2: They're extremely complex reports that'll involve multiple admins working together anyway.

 

If you're saying to fob illegal rp reports off to IFM admins, they no doubt already have enough work to do with faction reports and handling multiple factions at once without having to deal with 15 pages of back and forth cock swinging. For ones that involve breach of ROE? Then sure, I agree have IFM handle it. I'm sure that's already how it works. For the most part though having IFM deal with every illegal rp report (since they're the only ones who would be 'experienced' enough according to your requirements) just isn't feasible due to their workload and volume of reports. They simply won't have enough admins experienced enough with illegal rp.

 

Most situations can be broken down using plain old common sense anyway.

Edited by Stormbird
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6 hours ago, Stormbird said:

I get the whole "If admins aren't experienced in x genre then they shouldn't take the reports" argument, but you're forgetting that they are able to communicate with other staff over discord for second opinions if they're ever not sure. Illegal rp reports are usually one of two things;

 

1: They're pretty black and white metagame, powergame or dm reports which don't need any illegal rp experience to know it's outright stupid.

 

2: They're extremely complex reports that'll involve multiple admins working together anyway.

 

If you're saying to fob illegal rp reports off to IFM admins, they no doubt already have enough work to do with faction reports and handling multiple factions at once without having to deal with 15 pages of back and forth cock swinging. For ones that involve breach of ROE? Then sure, I agree have IFM handle it. I'm sure that's already how it works. For the most part though having IFM deal with every illegal rp report (since they're the only ones who would be 'experienced' enough according to your requirements) just isn't feasible due to their workload and volume of reports. They simply won't have enough admins experienced enough with illegal rp.

 

Most situations can be broken down using plain old common sense anyway.

 

I'm not forgetting nothing and the reports you mentioned are not the ones I've referenced. Like I said, reports that require the aforementioned experience should be dealt with with veteran and pragmatic experience. Recycled and second-hand opinions do the exact thing you're argument is based on, which makes handling them "unfeasible due to their workload and volume of reports." Highly contradictory argument and is relatively baseless. One of the points in the original argument states that they should:

 

  • Quote

    12. Don't lower the standard because "they're all we've got." There's always ways around work load, most just don't want to spread it around.

To say that "there won't be enough admins experienced enough with illegal rp" is what the core root of the problem is to begin with and the change we're all arguing for. It doesn't take an IFM team to recognize that criminals do criminal shit, criminals kill for criminal shit and criminals have criminal agendas. Being openminded and educating yourself on criminal behaviour and criminal agendas is far more practical than following a checklist to enforce "black and white" rules. The one or two things you mentioned are what they should stick to if they're unable to be impartial. "Black and white" rules and rule enforcement are the problem. Not everything is open-and-shut.

 

If it is self-evident then these are not the situations I'm talking about. Most situations should be able to be handled with common sense but they're not because the genre in question is not common to everyone. 

 

IFM's workload is overstated. In the server's peak I was a member handling the bulk of the faction reports on a frequent basis. I was able to handle them, regardless of how complex they were, in less than a day or two depending on the response time. From the outside looking in, sure, it may look like bombardment but I assure you it's not. Most IFM members would be happy to enforce their rule on reports in the interest of bettering roleplay and judgment.

 

Maybe a section under Player Reports labelled FST would suffice if a player wants a knowledgeable government to handle their reports. It could be completely optional.

 

But as players we shouldn't have to rely on one side of the spectrum for justifications that should come with the territory. A little learning goes a long way.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 11/16/2021 at 6:45 AM, Chuckles said:

It completely invalidates it because the supposed summary was inaccurate. You can't summarize something that's not even one of the points brought up and the quote proves that. That's putting two and two together and getting five. Legal roleplay is just as important as illegal roleplay. None should be prioritized but neither one should be neglected or given precedence. There must be an equal balance.

 

But to synopsize the argument:

 

I'm not suggesting that LSRP should deviate from its system, what I'm suggestion is that it takes advantage of known issues in its own and other communities and corrects it. A lot what has people crossing its fingers for LSRP is problems that were on LSRP but weren't as bad. If you can rectify the problems and be receptive to constructive criticism without being sensitive to it then that's a step in the right direction. A lot of the time constructive criticism is perceived as discrediting when in reality all it is is a suggestion in the interest of bettering something. A lot of it has to do with miscomprehension as well.

 

Instead of saying, "the server has so many problems," I'm saying "the server could be better if..." At the end of the day what I'm trying to do is bring forward an opinion that has the potential to better the server. Again, it's an opinion but it's one I feel is shared by the wider community.

 

  • 1. People with no experience in a genre shouldn't be handling reports that require experience in said genre.
  • 2. People with no experience in a category or minimal experience in a category shouldn't be making decisions based on "rules" alone. They need to be able to put themselves in a character's shoes.
  • 3. In terms of transparency I feel that players should be clued in on the decisions that either negatively or positively effect their characters or accounts. These "discussions" sometimes remain hidden and secluded and I've witnessed my fair share of hidden agendas impacting decisions. It cancels out the bias claims that are always associated to subgroups and gives players clarity.
  • 4. Be consistent and forthright. If the community plays on this "case by case" or an arbitrary system then it opens it up to claims of double standard. Don't enforce a standard at your discretion. It must be on-size-fits-all.
  • 5. Be engaging and ingenuous with the community. "Verified discussions" was a step in the right direction but after the departure of the administration that implemented it it was neglected and the public were given very few answers. A system like that should be implemented universally.
  • 6. Put more power in the community's hands. In most communities discussions and decisions are open and closed. Meaning that any administrator or support member can close threads based on their discretion. In other words, if they don't like or agree with it then it's not worth the time of day. Stop this and let them play out.
  • 7. Don't confuse "heavy" roleplay with hyperrealism. On other servers your faction is given virtually zero chance of existence if it doesn't go in line with Southern California. In a nutshell, if you're not an Armenian, Russian, skinhead or gang banger then you're held to an outrageous standard. Let players do what they want as long as their concept treats San Andreas like Southern California. All this "they wouldn't be here" shit is nothing more than micromanagement. If their concept isn't too far fetched and outside the lines of realism then leave them be. Who gives a fuck if there's three Italian crime families and a Serbian faction?
  • 8. Put more investigative powers in the PD and SD's hands. Good criminal roleplay means good law enforcement roleplay. They bounce off of each other.
  • 9. Make people value their characters. Enforce a CK rule if they put their lives at risk. 
  • 10. Stop with the excessive amount of OOC prison time unless it's murder. Maybe even repeat robberies to try and crack down on chain robberies. People will just name change and it ruins longevity and continuation and also investigations.
  • 11. Give players breathing space. Less micromanagement and bureaucracy. If we have a business and change characters, let us keep our move our businesses without stupid levels of scrutiny. We shouldn't have to account for every little thing our characters do down to the color of its socks.
  • 12. Don't lower the standard because "they're all we've got." There's always ways around work load, most just don't want to spread it around.

I wasn't planning on writing this much so that "synopsis" I had planned is out the window 😂 But this has been on the back of my mind for months. And for the record, as a former member of staff, very little in the aforementioned "staff meetings" ever came to fruition. Most of what was said or brought forward was wrote down like something was being done but very rarely was. It was always put in the rear-view. But a fresh start will change that, I hope.

 

Again, it's food for thought and was brought forward constructively. At the end of the day it's going to be a collective effort. Why not start prior to launch?

Good advice. Also, regarding point 8, that reminded me of this, I can also say that the systems should be designed in such a way that you don´t need an administrator to help you out with (almost) anything. On sa:mp you sometimes had to wait for an administrator and couldn´t start your roleplay, therefore some people just got bored and left the game. A good enviroment will secure a great amount of players on the server at all times.

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Knowing the staff team stays the same, I'm positive the actual illegal scene won't be as biased as it was through my experience in GTA W. It was horrible how certain admins attempted to solve situations they had EXACTLY 0 idea about. Certain aspects of this type of approach completely iced my respect at most of the staff team minus a few who were still professional and able to do their jobs correctly. I faced a few situations where certain administrators were extremely fond to help me out and provide me with knowledge about how the server's systems exactly operate, but also some who were extremely arrogant when I or my friends explained our side of the story. I can only bring an example of how s**t the robbery RP was there. You could have a perfectly planned robbery on an individual standing in an alleyway, but if they call an admin, it's voided because of one single typo or mistake you made. In LSRP, these tiny mistakes were occasionally let off and with certain admins in GTA W, it also happened. I stumbled across a lone biker somewhere in Burton, in a hidden alleyway (parked up there, it didn't show like they were AFK either as they were typing), who I then asked to resume RP once they came back. Their response was to call an biased cop admin, who instantly voided the scene without hearing my side. Next similar scene I found myself in an apartment, which I entered because I wanted to rob an resident whose car I found outside. I walked in, found two people and certainly enough, I was called an admin on. It happened to be that the person I was robbing was an admin, but as soon as they heard my side, they let the other admin go and went on to go ahead with the RP. Though I lost the situation, it was a fair display of how the admin team goes wall to wall in their staff roster.

 

In GTA W, I've had only a few incidents, but they were mostly the ones I was at fault at. I can't recall any particular, but I used to do a lot of the robbing role-play during when I did plenty of gang RP and I had run ins with administrators. Being robbed or being the robber, the stakes are the same. One mistake from either side and the situation evolves. Any time this occurred, admins had to be involved because of potential rulebreaking and I can not recall one time I was face to face with an admin with ZERO illegal RP knowledge. I know it's just an example, but it's kind of hard to tolerate people who obstruct role-play just because someone could get hurt OOCly from being robbed. 

 

Going to the main point, the Illegal community will be better in LSRP for numerous reasons, one being that the actual faction team is much bigger. in GTA W, I can count the people in the FM team, that're actually doing shit, on two hands, but in LSRP there're at least 20+ people that're doing their bit to make the role-play aroung OCGs, gangs and LEO factions better. There is a wide diversity of experience within the team, which GTA W definitely lacked. I have to mention, though, that the Illegal community DOES actually carry the most, or at least majority of the importance in terms of factions. I seclude civilians, because they do not tend to play such as massive role in factions RP, compared to LEO factions and other factions. The illegal community has in my opinion been the one to feed people role-play. It's a very bold statement, but it has been like that for a long time. LEO factions have done a lot to counter it, by having a well constructed Traffic Department doing all the traffic checks, their ES occasionally hosting events for Civilians and others to come and enjoy. But what I want to reach is the fact that Illegal factions create plenty more of these events. Yes, they're occasionally ruined by trolls, but looking at the effort people put into it, the general weigh is on the illegal faction's side. Yes, the main thing is that there are way more illegal factions, but at the same time most of them do not reach the membership of PD or SD. The thing that matters more is the pure fact that if these factions ally, come together or whatever, they will create a larger group and in events, the more people there are, the more people value it or rate it better, even if there are clinical errors within it. This especially applies to Civ RPers, but there're plenty of fresh gang RPers or even oldheads who would rather see a lot of people at their organized event than actual "Perfect" quality within the people there.

 

I'm more than sure that micromanaging has definitely decreased in LSRP over the past few years, so players do have the freedom to make most of the decisions in general. They only need help from administrators to be able to execute certain things that do need supervision etc etc. It's just a common thing that people do not think they have enough power in their hands, but in the end they realized (or don't...) that they were the ones demanding too much. You have to have a reasonable barrier between what people can do and what people can not do, avoiding making it too complex in order to MINIMALIZE micromanaging. 

 

I know it's a lot to take in at once, but I hope I added some value into the conversation in here in general.

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/13/2021 at 9:22 PM, Chuckles said:

I think currently GTAW finds itself in the shoes LSRP were once in. By that I mean that they have a monopoly over the genre simply because there is no alternative, similarly to our community on SA:MP. Players stuck around because there was nowhere else to go. On GTAW what you've got is a server and community tailored around legal roleplayers, ran by legal roleplayers and heavily influenced by legal roleplayers. One sticking point that comes up time and time again is their IFM's lack of engagement, transparency and knowledge and this is the driving force behind the bulk of our roleplayers leaving their server. Now, a lot of people use this a basis to promote their roleplay but the fact of the matter is that it's the truth, their lack of regard for their illegal community is what will offer LSRP a way in.

 

Over the course of the last few months it's been more evident than ever and their management's obliviousness to the fact is what adds insult to injury. For this server to hit the ground running what you have to do is capitalize on the shortcomings of the aforementioned server and strike while the iron's hot. Transparency will be a key factor in attracting these players. Deliverance will be what keeps them and the expectations and promises need to be fulfilled in order for this to come to fruition at all. Illegal roleplay shouldn't be prioritized by any means but it should be treated with the same amount of respect as legal roleplay and given the same opportunity of prosperity. Illegal roleplay has always been the foundation of LSRP but what made LSRP so consistent was its honesty, its openness and its lucidity. Transparency was always there one way or another.

 

One look at their faction's forum and you realize that their faction management team are driving people into LSRP's arms and for years it's gone unnoticed and unaddressed because their has been no alternative. You can forget about servers like LCRP making a wave because they're not battled tested like LSRP is and don't have the following LSRP do, coupled with the fact that their management are as corrupt as the day is long. All these make-shift beliefs and idealisms are used to lure people in but it's nothing more than a false pretense and a power grab. In other words, in certain communities if you don't agree with somebody's modus operandi, they will find a way to ban you, silence you or misinterpret you. On LSRP I believe that the number one priority should be to put the power in the player's hands. For this to overtake its competitors and scratch the surface it's got to recognize the flaws of communities that don't work. 

 

LSRP is genuinely the last hope for those interested in illegal roleplay. We need to do as much as we can to emphasize that and promote the fact that the community and management are receptive to that or we're back to square one. It's in all of our interests if we're on the same wave length.

 

All old community politics should be disregarded and the slate should be wiped clean. This will only work if we're all on the same page.

 

Make LSRP great again.

I agree with all of this honestly and I've had direct experience with their management and it was unreal, they bashed LSRP every chance they got when fighting with me so it's great you made this post because it's true. Overall I have really high hopes for LSRP V, I'm sure it's going to be really good for illegal and legal players to enjoy and my experience from LSRP from 2014 until 2020 or so was amazing, I loved it. 

Edited by Natasha Valentine

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LSRP slipped heavily towards the end to the point they took what they could to survive for as long as they could (which is completely understandable and respectable) especially in terms of role-players and staff (not people in particular, but the general atmosphere). The LSRP staff were immature, inexperienced and that was reflected in the role-play by the community, by the ad-hoc decisions that seemed to change based on opinions on certain players and factions instead of impartial and integrity of upholding rules equally.

 

I think its changed now as LSRP moves on to something that is serious and bigger, with large potential, and for that, I am really excited and hope to see good changes and a new attitude towards the server especially from a management / administration perspective in treating everyone as equals, being honest and transparent and looking out for the servers interest rather than protecting their own, which sadly has been seen before. I think the current mangagement are well-intended as well as a large portion of the staff and in time, those bad apples will be thrown out. 

 

This of course is just my opinion and what I experienced. 

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On 11/16/2021 at 5:45 AM, Chuckles said:

 

  • 1. People with no experience in a genre shouldn't be handling reports that require experience in said genre.
  • 2. People with no experience in a category or minimal experience in a category shouldn't be making decisions based on "rules" alone. They need to be able to put themselves in a character's shoes.
  • 3. In terms of transparency I feel that players should be clued in on the decisions that either negatively or positively effect their characters or accounts. These "discussions" sometimes remain hidden and secluded and I've witnessed my fair share of hidden agendas impacting decisions. It cancels out the bias claims that are always associated to subgroups and gives players clarity.
  • 4. Be consistent and forthright. If the community plays on this "case by case" or an arbitrary system then it opens it up to claims of double standard. Don't enforce a standard at your discretion. It must be on-size-fits-all.
  • 5. Be engaging and ingenuous with the community. "Verified discussions" was a step in the right direction but after the departure of the administration that implemented it it was neglected and the public were given very few answers. A system like that should be implemented universally.
  • 6. Put more power in the community's hands. In most communities discussions and decisions are open and closed. Meaning that any administrator or support member can close threads based on their discretion. In other words, if they don't like or agree with it then it's not worth the time of day. Stop this and let them play out.
  • 7. Don't confuse "heavy" roleplay with hyperrealism. On other servers your faction is given virtually zero chance of existence if it doesn't go in line with Southern California. In a nutshell, if you're not an Armenian, Russian, skinhead or gang banger then you're held to an outrageous standard. Let players do what they want as long as their concept treats San Andreas like Southern California. All this "they wouldn't be here" shit is nothing more than micromanagement. If their concept isn't too far fetched and outside the lines of realism then leave them be. Who gives a fuck if there's three Italian crime families and a Serbian faction?
  • 11. Give players breathing space. Less micromanagement and bureaucracy. If we have a business and change characters, let us keep our move our businesses without stupid levels of scrutiny. We shouldn't have to account for every little thing our characters do down to the color of its socks.

 

 

Very important points. Point 1 and 2 are key issues that have been prevalent for years within this community. The issue(s) presented with the ''fix'' for those problems are that people who are right for the position are far and few between, and getting someone to handle the workload without having that management-type experience is a challenging task itself and always results in bringing people in who don't have the genre-specific experience, but the staff-specific experience alone.

 

I think this community (and its staff) have moved in a much better direction in the last couple of years. Transparency, communication and cohesion between the community and the people who staff it has significantly improved — albeit with issues here and there. 

 

One gripe I have always had with discussions and hot topics being debated over public mediums is the premature closure of them and it was (from experience) something that was cracked down internally pre 2020. I think it's important to let these threads run their natural course and let feedback be taken as what it is, feedback. People get frustrated and throw jabs here and there, however, one person shouldn't result in the execution of many others and their potential feedback. 

 

Your last point is something I agree with, but you know as well I do that we've had several instances of people making abhorrent decisions without oversight, and this causes a faction and server-wide issue when it trickles down the grapevine. It should be competency-based and it should be case-by-case in my opinion. 

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  • 2 months later...
On 11/16/2021 at 6:45 AM, Chuckles said:

It completely invalidates it because the supposed summary was inaccurate. You can't summarize something that's not even one of the points brought up and the quote proves that. That's putting two and two together and getting five. Legal roleplay is just as important as illegal roleplay. None should be prioritized but neither one should be neglected or given precedence. There must be an equal balance.

 

But to synopsize the argument:

 

I'm not suggesting that LSRP should deviate from its system, what I'm suggestion is that it takes advantage of known issues in its own and other communities and corrects it. A lot what has people crossing its fingers for LSRP is problems that were on LSRP but weren't as bad. If you can rectify the problems and be receptive to constructive criticism without being sensitive to it then that's a step in the right direction. A lot of the time constructive criticism is perceived as discrediting when in reality all it is is a suggestion in the interest of bettering something. A lot of it has to do with miscomprehension as well.

 

Instead of saying, "the server has so many problems," I'm saying "the server could be better if..." At the end of the day what I'm trying to do is bring forward an opinion that has the potential to better the server. Again, it's an opinion but it's one I feel is shared by the wider community.

 

  • 1. People with no experience in a genre shouldn't be handling reports that require experience in said genre.
  • 2. People with no experience in a category or minimal experience in a category shouldn't be making decisions based on "rules" alone. They need to be able to put themselves in a character's shoes.
  • 3. In terms of transparency I feel that players should be clued in on the decisions that either negatively or positively effect their characters or accounts. These "discussions" sometimes remain hidden and secluded and I've witnessed my fair share of hidden agendas impacting decisions. It cancels out the bias claims that are always associated to subgroups and gives players clarity.
  • 4. Be consistent and forthright. If the community plays on this "case by case" or an arbitrary system then it opens it up to claims of double standard. Don't enforce a standard at your discretion. It must be on-size-fits-all.
  • 5. Be engaging and ingenuous with the community. "Verified discussions" was a step in the right direction but after the departure of the administration that implemented it it was neglected and the public were given very few answers. A system like that should be implemented universally.
  • 6. Put more power in the community's hands. In most communities discussions and decisions are open and closed. Meaning that any administrator or support member can close threads based on their discretion. In other words, if they don't like or agree with it then it's not worth the time of day. Stop this and let them play out.
  • 7. Don't confuse "heavy" roleplay with hyperrealism. On other servers your faction is given virtually zero chance of existence if it doesn't go in line with Southern California. In a nutshell, if you're not an Armenian, Russian, skinhead or gang banger then you're held to an outrageous standard. Let players do what they want as long as their concept treats San Andreas like Southern California. All this "they wouldn't be here" shit is nothing more than micromanagement. If their concept isn't too far fetched and outside the lines of realism then leave them be. Who gives a fuck if there's three Italian crime families and a Serbian faction?
  • 8. Put more investigative powers in the PD and SD's hands. Good criminal roleplay means good law enforcement roleplay. They bounce off of each other.
  • 9. Make people value their characters. Enforce a CK rule if they put their lives at risk. 
  • 10. Stop with the excessive amount of OOC prison time unless it's murder. Maybe even repeat robberies to try and crack down on chain robberies. People will just name change and it ruins longevity and continuation and also investigations.
  • 11. Give players breathing space. Less micromanagement and bureaucracy. If we have a business and change characters, let us keep our move our businesses without stupid levels of scrutiny. We shouldn't have to account for every little thing our characters do down to the color of its socks.
  • 12. Don't lower the standard because "they're all we've got." There's always ways around work load, most just don't want to spread it around.

I wasn't planning on writing this much so that "synopsis" I had planned is out the window 😂 But this has been on the back of my mind for months. And for the record, as a former member of staff, very little in the aforementioned "staff meetings" ever came to fruition. Most of what was said or brought forward was wrote down like something was being done but very rarely was. It was always put in the rear-view. But a fresh start will change that, I hope.

 

Again, it's food for thought and was brought forward constructively. At the end of the day it's going to be a collective effort. Why not start prior to launch?

I've just come across this post and I agree wholeheartedly. 

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LS-RP could be great if:

 

It felt like old LSRP, it's golden era.

Illegal RP was ran better, more fun than other servers. 

It wasn't a 1:1 replica of real life, which makes it boring, like other servers. 

 

LS-RP was great on SAMP because yes, it was realistic, but it wasn't trying to be real life, 100 percent. An example would be if you go to school IRL, you don't want to play LSRP V and make chump change working at a gas station. 

 

Also here, lets hope that this community isn't based entirely off E-RP nor people complaining about how boring the illegal RP is. Remember how great illegal RP was on LSRP? Lets strive for that.  

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I think a basic vision will be critical to success. I assume the staff team has one but I don't know what it is. I hope that there has been a realization that LSRP is now a competing server, not the monopoly that it was on SAMP, which I believe contributed a lot to complacency and lethargy in its later years.

 

There's no point in beating around the bush like we used to. At least, like I used to. Here's the thing: LSRP will have a strong competitor, but it's a competitor that has several very major and fundamental flaws. These will need to be addressed if LSRP is to succeed.

 

The biggest is that GTAW sucks for illegal roleplay. It's better than it used to be (there was a period when illegal rpers were basically an oppressed people there) but not by much. LSRP will need to be a genuinely better place to roleplay if there's to be any point in playing here.

 

"Learn from past mistakes" is a pretty good philosophy. And it means both from SAMP and from GTAW. This server technically has the benefit of being able to learn from both experiences, which means it should be better than both experiences. I emphasize both because there are some things GTAW actually does very well, and this server has just defaulted to how it was done on SAMP, seemingly just to be different? Learning from experience goes both ways - the good and the bad.

 

But, ultimately, judgement needs to be held until this server is actually operational. Most things being said here are basically academic and hypothetical until that point.

 

One thing that can be said though is that the staff team needs to rely on the experience it has floating around the community. A lot of experienced roleplayers have come here because they're dissatisfied with not being listened to elsewhere. Don't let that happen here.

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15 hours ago, largehazard said:

I think a basic vision will be critical to success. I assume the staff team has one but I don't know what it is. I hope that there has been a realization that LSRP is now a competing server, not the monopoly that it was on SAMP, which I believe contributed a lot to complacency and lethargy in its later years.

 

There's no point in beating around the bush like we used to. At least, like I used to. Here's the thing: LSRP will have a strong competitor, but it's a competitor that has several very major and fundamental flaws. These will need to be addressed if LSRP is to succeed.

 

The biggest is that GTAW sucks for illegal roleplay. It's better than it used to be (there was a period when illegal rpers were basically an oppressed people there) but not by much. LSRP will need to be a genuinely better place to roleplay if there's to be any point in playing here.

 

"Learn from past mistakes" is a pretty good philosophy. And it means both from SAMP and from GTAW. This server technically has the benefit of being able to learn from both experiences, which means it should be better than both experiences. I emphasize both because there are some things GTAW actually does very well, and this server has just defaulted to how it was done on SAMP, seemingly just to be different? Learning from experience goes both ways - the good and the bad.

 

But, ultimately, judgement needs to be held until this server is actually operational. Most things being said here are basically academic and hypothetical until that point.

 

One thing that can be said though is that the staff team needs to rely on the experience it has floating around the community. A lot of experienced roleplayers have come here because they're dissatisfied with not being listened to elsewhere. Don't let that happen here.

This I do agree with, fully. Smart people learn from their mistakes, really smart people learn from the mistakes of others. There's an opportunity here to do both.

 

And yes, plenty of old returning players who've had enough experience to provide valuable insight, and who are mature enough to present it from a place of genuinely wanting the server succeed, without expecting anything in return. Though the issue is that I'm sure the leadership team will be swamped with people who have their own hidden agendas, as there always has been, so it's not always that easy to differentiate.

 

Keeping the door open for suggestions and insight from folks in general is harmless however, and a huge step up from where we were a couple of years ago. 

Decided to dip, at least for a bit. Reasoning and shit is here.

Good luck!

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