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Lenghty prison sentences & Forced CKs


pure north
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On 11/5/2021 at 3:17 PM, Arachnid Man said:

Ima be honest GTAW did it right with the jail time and points system to life sentences.    

 

I agree with this. I think there were suitable punishments for the crimes and it lead to a more realistic atmosphere. The points adding up lead to criminals being punished as repeat offenders and so forth.

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On 11/15/2021 at 5:36 PM, pure north said:

I understand the concerns that comes with forced CKs, but I believe that it will add spice to the roleplay, people will fear the lives of their characters.

 

Also I believe that when it comes to faction wars, for some of them, CK perms should be given to both sides. Instead of just killing each other with nothing to gain and nothing to lose other than a weapon, CK wars forced by the faction management that can give the factions something to fight and die for would be nice to see, maybe turf, dominance, vassalizing another faction, taking over a legal front of another faction, or fighting over supplier spots would be awesome to see.  

I really doubt CK faction wars should be a thing, simply because the years I spent playing the SAMP LSRP I witnessed a lot of DMers creating factions, just to have some kind of reason to kill people. Just imagine joining a faction with a freshly made character and a week later, some DM hungry people iniciate a war and you get CK'ed without even having a possibility to develop your character.

Unless there will be some kind of name changes given out by Faction Management when such war happens. But I doubt that would be possible as well, because it would require extra management members to have access to things like giving out name changes and such. Plus, such wars would probably require being spectated by admins, which I doubt anyone would want to do. That is just my opinion though.

 

P.S I do agree that it would make the game more hardcore and spicier, but at the end of the day I think the advantages of such gameplay fall short to the disadvantages that it can give.

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On 11/16/2021 at 8:03 PM, Sticker said:

I really doubt CK faction wars should be a thing, simply because the years I spent playing the SAMP LSRP I witnessed a lot of DMers creating factions, just to have some kind of reason to kill people. Just imagine joining a faction with a freshly made character and a week later, some DM hungry people iniciate a war and you get CK'ed without even having a possibility to develop your character.

Unless there will be some kind of name changes given out by Faction Management when such war happens. But I doubt that would be possible as well, because it would require extra management members to have access to things like giving out name changes and such. Plus, such wars would probably require being spectated by admins, which I doubt anyone would want to do. That is just my opinion though.

 

P.S I do agree that it would make the game more hardcore and spicier, but at the end of the day I think the advantages of such gameplay fall short to the disadvantages that it can give.

 

DM factions can be easily spotted out, and if another server has managed to make it happen with their staff team, why LS-RP can't? If they gonna need more staff members for this to work, they better get to recruiting.

 

CK wars should only be forced by the faction management and should only be applied to factions who have no or little to none history of DMers  have been up and going for, let's say maybe three months.

 

Just because there are a few dmers here and there, we shouldn't give up on this concept. 

 

Also, I believe that people are gonna have to learn to deal with the loss of their characters. This is a roleplaying game after all, we should reap what we sow, we can't always win, and when we lose, we better lose for real, instead of just losing a gun or two and going back to the routine rp, and vice versa, if we win, we should win for good, like I said, CK wars should be profitable for the winning side so it means something. War over supplier spots or territory should be looked into.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/4/2021 at 5:11 PM, F0r3v3r said:

I think longer prison sentences will force people to consider the option of not doing the crime before they do it. Sure, they might need to do it for a gang or something, but they have to take the risk. We don't want to create a environment where people commit crimes to be let off with a ten hour AFKed sentence, but a rather complex system that'd limit these RPers. I feel like something in lines of a "Half online half offline" should be implemented. Let's say someone receives a 24 hour prison sentence for murder. They should then be in game for the 12 hour period and then 12 hours can be done offline. It would be a little bit easier to cope to for illegal role-players who don't exactly want to spend too much time in prison but they should also learn from it.

 

How to say you want to kill illegal rp without actually saying you want to kill illegal rp.

 

It's like all the majority people saying they want 24+ hour sentences are all legal PD/SD rpers.

 

People are here to play the game, illegal rp is just as much if not more important then legal. You can force a horse to the water but you can not make him drink, YES people should rp all prison instances but adding 12+ hours to an already long prison sentence as is, making people have to sit at their desk and scrap and beg for roleplay  for 12 hours at a time when people already took MULTIPLE days to complete 12 hour sentences on SAMP is just not ideal at all.

 

LSRP on gta 5 is going to average 500-800 players possibly, their will be PLENTY of people who actually enjoy rp in prison, hell it was like that on SAMP with half those numbers on SAMP. (Example: Pen 1/Kushin/A black faction who's name I forgot because their were multiple at one point)

 

"Let off with a ten hour sentence"

Have you ever tried to do a ten hour sentence? Almost no one sits straight through a 10 hour sentence and is roleplaying in the same day/night most if not all of those people were mall rats, I'd be willing to bet barely any were hard core illegal rpers.  I used to take day breaks after prison sentences (To create a realistic experience within my faction + I'd just be tired of the game afterwards)

 

Keep prison sentences how they were before, hell maybe even shorten them, but. Make them so you can serve them offline as well as online if you choose to. Everyone's first go to is limit illegal rpers as much as possible. Imagine tipping the scale a bit, In every Police documentary or show/movie video you find on the net (International favorite movie: The Wire) 

They always hence how gangbangers and crime are always stepping their game up, making it harder for them to get caught, etc. Make that somewhat be the case here. Illegal rp is what probably grows at minimum in-between 60-75% of the player base, You want proof? Go look at your average rp video on YouTube.

 

Think about what you just said, You want a complex system that would LIMIT, That's not ideal either, You want a complex system that forces each sides to be their best, PD is already going to have Dogs/Forensics etc and with how widely known it is how good Mmartn and Kane are at coding/scripting who knows wtf else crazy good shit they'll put into this game.

 

As well as on peak days 100s of other Police rpers online at a time possibly 150-200 when you combine PD/SD explain to me how limiting illegal rp even more would be ideal at all? 

When literally everything they're/we're up against is supposed to put them at a disadvantage. (Been in PD as well as majority illegal rp through a span of 7 years) PD is literally supposed to win up to 80-90% of their encounters. So you want criminal rpers to serve 24+ hour jail sentences 80-90% of the time? Doesn't make any sense and will not increase any type of RP in terms of quality, will probably in fact decrease it substantially.

 

What you will increase is the disconnect between illegal/ legal/ Faction Management even more, and if you've been around when LSRP was on samp you should know how bad it was there.

 

Force the legal rp to step it's game up, actually have a court system/trials/court dates/appeals/ make Detectives have to actually build cases. etc. I personally know multiple people who used to rp on lsrp who went off to become attorneys/lawyers,  Don't try to limit the other side. You'll literally turn LSRP into GTA W where theirs 200+ law enforcement and 10-20 street rpers online at peak times

Edited by Jit
grammer
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Personally I’m for forced CK, CK wars imo are exciting. because of the unknown if your character will survive or not. i agree with the longer prison sentence. lsrp on sa-mp was known for their illegal rp . majority of the community was illegal rp. legal rp is definitely on world’s side. i doubt legal rp will be as popular on lsrp as it is on world.  i know i got side track but all in all i agree with force ck and longer prison sentences.  i dont ever attach myself to a character so if i lose my character so be it.  i dont play as a second life i play to play, it’s a game at the end of the day.  same with OOC assets if i had a million dollars and got CK and LSRP CK rule stated when you get CK you lose all of your OOC assets. it wouldnt affect me. i just wouldn’t care if I lost my OOC assets. i dont have the play to win mentality either. 

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I'm all for longer prison sentences, honestly. I feel like jail and prison sentences were more of a slap on the wrist in SAMP and people didn't really think much of it. I remember roleplaying with people who had 30+ prison sentences alone. That's a bit ridiculous and unrealistic to me. With that being said and moving over to forced CKs, I think that could possibly be a deterrent for people that decide they want to roleplay career criminals going in and out of prison during that entire character's life. Don't get me wrong, illegal RP is cool and stuff, but it gets repetitive when most of the illegal roleplay you run into is the same person committing different crimes.

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Forced CKs is a very simple topic to handle: they should be the result of a faction CK war initiated by mutual agreement by the leaders of the warring factions in cases where regular faction wars have been going on for far too long. If one of the leaders refuses to initiate a CK war despite this, faction management should be entitled to and tasked with determining if a CK war is proper (at request of one of the leaders), necessary and feasible (no CK wars where it's a 1-5 people faction against some 30+ member behemoth unless agreed upon mutually, for example).  This should be a relatively important occasion for the server and not something that happens constantly - people get attached to characters, and killing them off constantly isn't fun.

 

In the topic of lengthier prison sentences I will say this as someone who was a member of the DoC in SAMP for a year and a half or more some years ago - no. The LSRP limit was fine. It was good punishment for committing crimes and getting caught, but not so punitive that actually serving the sentence would be a daunting task. We have to understand that this is, above all, a game, and one focused around crime at that. People (and especially newbies) will be immediately drawn to it and it's the type of RP that will be the norm, most likely. Making people serve 5 hour sentences for jaywalking won't make for good or engaging roleplay and the majority of people who get arrested, even good roleplayers (themselves rare) have very little interest in roleplaying in prison. I expect the facilities will be more or less like SAMP - the fighting will be constant to stave off boredom and the roleplay will vary from people trolling to pass the time, to serious factions and roleplayers every now and then (remember that these factions were rare even in SAMP and when they were around all the members had alts because prison roleplay gets old fast, they would login maybe for an hour or two a day, the place would be a desert of roleplay most other times, even the COs spent most of their time alt tabbed).

 

Sentences should also not be allowed to be served offline - this can only lead to people simply not bothering to ever roleplay in prison or even be present (which in itself is already 50% of roleplaying).

 

 

 

 

Edited by IdleStacks
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This is one of the ideas I floated on multiple occasions but it didn't seem very popular. My wish has always been for when you die, it's a CK, no matter what. Also avoids a lot of problems with revenge killing, memory loss rules, etc. People will think a lot harder before they do something stupid, they will not be interested in dying just to avoid getting arrested, shootouts and crime in general will be more rare as it should be, more civilian roleplay. It also keeps people from hogging properties, creates more funeral roleplay, people drive more realistically and more careful, doesn't give people too much time to get stupid rich, constantly meeting new characters with new stories, etc. it's all around a great idea, really, but it seems people were scared of it for whatever reason, maybe opinions towards it have changed.

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OwlGaming did forced CK's really well in my opinion. They were used when you blatantly disregarded your life in a situation where death was all but guaranteed. For example, 10 cops aiming guns at you and you decide to reach for your weapon - it would be a CK because unless you're John Wick you ain't getting out of that. 

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I think that when you get into the sticky latter of forcing people into doing things, it doesn't end out as well as you may think, not everyone (including myself) would agree with the decisions of a forced CK however lengthy prison times have ALWAYS been a thing on LSRP, even back in the golden era of SAMP you'd get tons of hours racked up if you committed any sort or type of felony action.

 

So I can mainly agree with this, however I don't really believe that anyone should be forced into CKING a character, unless there are certain T&C's met.

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Imma say 1 thing, I think you should be able to go to prison for days/hours depending on the crime(s). But you don't have to be on that character in game for the time to go down just like in GTA:W. Pretty much the best thing gtaw has is the prison system where you don't have to be on the same account for 30 hours straight etc You can get charged for 20 days/10 days like I have (for VERY extreme crimes like murder not some assault shit) in the past and just hop on another character for that time and your good.

Edited by JJABOTULE
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lengthy prison sentences are kinda wack especially if there isnt much activity in the yard. in retrospect having solid prison yard rp can be quite entertaining especially if you can smuggle in contraband and or theres incentivized roleplay for participating in prison politics on a bid. Would be cool to see. 

 

forced CKs should be a must IMO. it really makes you consider your character portrayal in advance, and diminishes the lack of fear and the abundance of inflated ego most validated gang members tend to have when RP'ing their characters. the thought of losing your character looms over you in the back of your head, all of that effort, all of that hardwork tarnished. you play your role a lot more calculated imo. in addition, if you make mistakes or shit goes sour and you do catch a force CK, you know how to move better for your next character and it brings added flavor into the world. only concern would be the whole revolving door concept where motherfuckers are dropping like flies, but at that point there should be clear cut boundaries on what constitutes a forced CK. enemy gang members pull a drive-by, bop you, and you die seeking medical attention? You should be CK'd. You get ran over by some dink over sync issues? Shit happens, shouldn't be constituted as a forced CK. 

Edited by EYECE
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/4/2021 at 2:28 PM, Ese Reaper said:

Force CKs when people have a pay2win mentality, in terms of prison sentences, it's upto the people if they want to do a long stretch or not. Forcing it won't improve the quality of the roleplay, if anything it'll decrease it. 

 

I'm against forced CK's because not everyone has a /good/ reason to kill to begin with and a lot of times it can be considered petty which would cause a lot of arguments and reports and this would only benefit toxic "dmers" that would purposely find reasons to gun you down just to ruin your character. I think the CK rules should be the same from LSRP SAMP, CK's can be enforced through factions etc as long as all members agree and understand the agreement of possibly being ck'd at any given time and that it's a risk while running with that certain faction before participating. 

 

I'm against players being forced to stay in-game for their prison sentences, mind you while in-game your prison sentence should go faster 2x or something that way players are still motivated to role-play in prison and are "rewarded" for rping in-game for a faster release. 

 

For example a 10 hour prison sentence will go 1/2 speed while offline therefore lowering your sentence just at a slower pace, but if you are online during your prison sentence it'll speed up it's process at a normal hourly rate for motivation to keep playing during that period. 

Edited by Natasha Valentine

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On 11/4/2021 at 8:17 PM, pure north said:

We don't have to make people spend 72 hours IG while in prison, we can say that A person got sentenced 7 days which he can appeal, parole out or wait it out (doesn't have to be ig, time will still decrease) maybe make them roleplay %5 of the prison sentence IG for the sake of prison rp and prison factions, people underestimate the fact that most of the criminal underworld of California have ties to prison one way or another and prison roleplay is not boring, give it a shot.

 

And doing this will allow the server to have an active court system with active DoJ and lawyers, what did DoJ in old LS-RP do other than handling a few extraordinary cases for certain faction leaders or key members of factions? This will allow people to actively roleplay as lawyers, attorneys, judges etcetra.

 

This will also add a bit of spice to LS-PD and SD for the fact that everything revolves around a court system that comes with lenghty prison sentences. PD and SD detectives will have to have constant communications with attorneys for search warrants, arrest warrants and the list goes on.

 

I don't see any negative effect other than "prison rp is boring" (which I don't agree). If you're roleplaying a criminal, prison will be a part of your life and it is the best place to build networks. Instead of 1v1 fights turning into a murder every time when one of the combatants are armed, this will force criminals to be smarter. You want to take out someone? You better plan it beforehand.

 

This system allows a lot of things, going as far as from RICO cases to money laundering and IRS. Organized crime groups, gangs, police, they will all need to smarten up. DoJ will be active every day, people who'd like to roleplay as lawyers and such will have a chance to actively roleplay on the contrary to old LS-RP, if we want to keep it the same way it was like back in the day, it's all good, if seeing shoot-outs everywhere wherever you drive during peak hours is what you want with inactive DoJ, inactive prison is what you want to see. 

 

I belive that the roleplay has evolved to a point where it is more serious, if we keep things the same, it simply won't work out, we all had our fair share of shoot-outs with no consequences, if hard-roleplay is what we're seeking, this is the path we should take.

 

Yes, you are right. However, that doesn't change the fact that this is a game and that people play it for fun. No matter how much you'd like to force any time that they'd have to spend in prison, they won't role play it if they don't feel like it. Any tyrannical measure trying to enforce this will only make the matter worse. I am not saying that the idea on prison role play is lost, just that you'd have to come up with a creative solution for it. Compromises, compromises. Now, if there was something captivating (for everyone) about role playing in prison, then we can begin talking about extending the jail time. If you want an amazing role playing environment, you have to create it. I believe in you.

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There should be more force with CKs than we saw on SA-MP.

 

Especially for people RPing in gangs, there shouldn't be CKs for everyday bullshit. Like, CKing the guy who shot at you trying to PK you, but potentially loosing your life should be a fear that comes with being a part of a gang. You can get into drawn out beef with other members, you can loose your life over bullshit. 

 

You should be able to apply to character kill another character, within good reason and have it green lit by the mods, maybe by faction management (illegal or legal) or maybe even gangs could enter a CK war cycle, one hit (each) allowed a week or some shit with proper planning, no block swipes. Perhaps even only one character kill at a time. The whole aspects of doing shit realistically. 

 

 

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I'm very against lengthy prison sentences. I think it should be something you can request rather than being forced on everybody who gets caught committing a crime. Those who actually enjoy roleplaying in prison often get their experience ruined by the people who are just there to do the bare minimum to not get AFK kicked and lower their timer. I honestly think prison times should be lowered from what they were previously but one thing I would possibly be interested in is a three strike system on certain charges leading to a much longer sentence or even life imprisonment.

 

Quote

California's Three Strikes sentencing law was originally enacted in 1994. The essence of the Three Strikes law was to require a defendant convicted of any new felony, having suffered one prior conviction of a serious felony to be sentenced to state prison for twice the term otherwise provided for the crime. If the defendant was convicted of any felony with two or more prior strikes, the law mandated a state prison term of at least 25 years to life.

On November 6, 2012 the voters approved Proposition 36 which substantially amended the law with two primary provisions:

  1. The requirements for sentencing a defendant as a third strike offender were changed to 25 years to life by requiring the new felony to be a serious or violent felony with two or more prior strikes to qualify for the 25 year-to-life sentence as a third strike offender; and
  2. The addition of a means by which designated defendants currently serving a third strike sentence may petition the court for reduction of their term to a second strike sentence, if they would have been eligible for second strike sentencing under the new law.

 

I think this is something we could potentially tweak and implement here. Without raising prison sentences for everybody there would still be risk to committing certain violent crimes and getting caught.

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