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San Andreas and California co-existing? (LSRP Lore)


xander11
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San Andreas and California co-existing? (LSRP Lore)  

118 members have voted

  1. 1. What do you prefer between these two variants?

    • Los Santos is actually Los Angeles, and San Andreas replaces the state of California.
      108
    • San Andreas is an island, co-existing with California which is a different state, and Los Santos and Los Angeles are two separate cities.
      10


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Lately, all sorts of discussions have been popping up on LSRP's Discord servers about the "lore" behind San Andreas. Management supposedly said that San Andreas would be an island, a different state from California, somewhat separated by waters from the United States mainland. This decision has sparked a chain of debate among community members, with some players embracing this new LSRP universe and others being more comfortable roleplaying that SA is actually Cali.

I personally prefer the more common approach, where SA=CA and any reference to California is simply ignored.

What do you think about it? What does the community actually prefer?

Edited by xander11
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Pretty sure there used to be an official party line on this one, can't remember what it was though. Personally I prefer to see San Andreas as somewhere separate, but at the same time, I'd never actively talk about LA. No strong opinion on this really, whatever suits (so long as people don't start calling LS places by their LA counterpart names, for instance "Hey did you see what happened at Hollywood Bowl?")

Decided to dip, at least for a bit. Reasoning and shit is here.

Good luck!

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Los Santos and San Andreas is a direct copy of Los Angeles and California, having the two co-exist is confusing and doesn't make a lot of sense. Replacing Los Angeles and California with Los Santos and San Andreas is the only option that makes sense realistically, the geography of Los Santos and it being an island in the game is almost entirely due to game limitations; having a copied and pasted Los Angeles, plonking it off the coast of California and calling it Los Santos is a little ridiculous.

Edited by Mac
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GSTK

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I'll be more elaborate on this later on because I'm on my phone, but the idea of being an island based on California while California still exists is very contradictory in itself. Especially considering a lot of the penal codes, law enforcement agencies and factions use it for inspiration. It's easy to give factions and players creative freedom without the need of being a fictional state. This has always been the theme and I don't see the need for the change now.

 

If the problem is lore, this could have been handled very easily ahead of time. It's something both legal and illegal faction management could have revised. I think this approach is bone laziness.

 

Nothing should change from SA-MP other than the recognition of Las Vegas and San Francisco as real cities.

Edited by Chuckles
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2 minutes ago, Dos Santos said:

It has been confirmed. San Andreas is going to be acted as a island and we don't connect to the mainland.

There should be a talk through with the community before deciding anything, I don't see why would management come up with such as thing without any discussion given that all legal factions are trying to portray departments from real life LA.

How would management explain the resemblance of LS seal and LA one from an IC perspective.

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8 minutes ago, Dos Santos said:

It has been confirmed. San Andreas is going to be acted as a island and we don't connect to the mainland.

 

41955a4e3d0435127b5ae6a4ee99b250.png

 

This directly contradicts that, which is why it needs to be properly ironed out with a thread on server continuity, not just "Ben said this", "Mmartin said that". Maybe the faction team can work out the server's lore like Chuckles has suggested.

GSTK

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18 minutes ago, Dos Santos said:

It has been confirmed. San Andreas is going to be acted as a island and we don't connect to the mainland.

Not questioning the staff's decision but the majority of people don't want that. It makes things complicated for no reason. Los Santos is based on Los Angeles so It makes zero sense to separate them into two different cities. Los Santos has real-life locations found in Los Angeles. People have always assumed that LA is LS.

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20 minutes ago, Dos Santos said:

It has been confirmed. San Andreas is going to be acted as a island and we don't connect to the mainland.

Definitely agree that this is the right thing to do. However, the natural next question would be where in relation to Los Santos the cities of San Fierro and Las Venturas would be. Do we act as if they're where their real life counter parts would be on the mainland United States?

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It’s nonsensical to roleplay San Andreas and California co-existing when both states have identical infrastructure, gangs, government agencies, penal code sections, and so on. The general consensus for the past few years has essentially been to roleplay the state taking place of its real life counterpart. There’s quite literally no reason to roleplay both states co-existing. Roleplaying what should be the second largest city in the US be on an island off the coast of a city that looks very similar makes no sense in the realistic environment we’re trying to emulate.

Edited by CloutToken
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I personally don't agree with having Los Santos / San Andreas bordered of from the mainland. Back on LS-RP SA-MP it was a un-written rule where SA replicated California and should be done the same here, simply not allowing us to have a mainland sort of vibe is strictly going to cause issues in the near future. 

 

Hopefully not, we can have a thread that clarifies what's what so there isn't speculations. But I totally do agree that San Andreas should replicate California.

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I don't understand why something so trivial yet important is falling under the purview of a management member, who in no disrespect whatsoever, hasn't roleplayed solidly in years? Let the vote fall to the community who will actually play the server. The above vote shows that it's evident how the community feel about the issue.

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I don't know what's happened but at one point in time everything on the server was diagrammed. An agreement, by common accord, was that San Andreas substituted Southern California. This was the inspiration for a lot of rules, factions and mapping additions. The Mexican Mafia and PEN1 dominates the prison system, the white and hispanic streets gangs pay homage respectively, both the PD and SD have units named after their real life equivalence and everything including vernacular, dialect and cultures are adapted to as much immersion as possible. Not only this, but for half a decade factions have used this how-to to realistically administer drugs and weapons coming into the city through its neighbouring cities like Nevada, Arizona and Utah. 

 

We seem to be on a backwards trajectory since the transition to GTA V with no real template in mind. To me, this "San Andreas co-exists with California" puts us in a parallel universe, somewhere we're all foreign to. And I'd say it is a view comparative to those who advocate for single player gangs, completely opposite of what a heavy roleplay server should be enforcing. The fact of the matter is, by enforcing this, it removes all the foundations we've built for over a decade where there's a pretty much unanimity around the formulation. The blacks roleplay in South Central for this reason. The Hispanics roleplay in Rancho for this reason. Armenian Power roleplay in Vinewood for this reason. Without this agreement, what's generally being preached is that it's now a free-for-all.

 

A lot of people came back because of the old prototype. The foundations were strong, the factions were strong and the enforcement was strong, but fair. There has been a lot of mixed signals sent out recently that indicates a lack of accord and structure. And I'm bewildered because a lot of this should have been covered. What I don't understand is how the developers have managed to almost complete the server but everything else is essentially barebones basic. There is no real modus operandi, no real directory to make players culturally aware of anything beyond development. Everything feels muddled and last-minute when realistically, the server should be the last thing ready. Everything else should have been addressed weeks, if not months ago.

 

This island shit has to stop. We should replace California and we should be bordered by Nevada, Arizona and other neighbouring cities. If this is to be enforced, it should be at the very least an open-dialogue and not an open-and-shut thread. My only ask is that this thread remains open and isn't closed until we're all satisfied with the OP's canvass. 

 

Surely this approach doesn't come because there's "no bridge"? 

Edited by Chuckles
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How about a compromise and say that San Andreas replaces California but that San Andreas takes the land that California as a state occupies, and Los Santos aka Los Angeles is situated on an island off the coast of California?

 

I understand the previous point that it would not make sense to have the US' second largest city on a separate island, but that is trivial as obviously Los Santos in this universe is not the size of Los Angeles in any way. Having it like this would mean we don't just ignore that we are obviously roleplaying on an island and any characters "visiting" San Fierro or Las Venturas would hop on an imaginary flight or boat to the mainland.  

 

See the image in the spoiler below to see a rough idea of how this would operate. Obviously, the image is comparing the sizes of LS and LA, but for roleplay purposes imagine that LA was not there, or possibly even roleplay that Las Venturas and San Fierro as they exist in GTA SA occupied that space. Like this, it would only be a short flight to get from Los Santos international to the mainland. 

 

Spoiler

GTA V's map size compared to real-life Los Angeles. : r/GTAV

 

I'm not too bothered by either prospect in all honesty as it makes little difference to the actual roleplay, but a line in the sand should be drawn so everyone knows where they stand. 

Edited by RGelfuso
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Like Dos Santos said, it was an unwritten rule on SAMP that San Andreas replaced California, and that should reflect officially in this new era. Leadership need to either form a continuity team, allow the faction team to establish continuity and lore, or similar so long this is made official. Other communities have already established and universally agreed upon this, and it puts us behind to lack this as our official stance. 

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3 hours ago, RGelfuso said:

How about a compromise and say that San Andreas replaces California but that San Andreas takes the land that California as a state occupies, and Los Santos aka Los Angeles is situated on an island off the coast of California?

 

I understand the previous point that it would not make sense to have the US' second largest city on a separate island, but that is trivial as obviously Los Santos in this universe is not the size of Los Angeles in any way. Having it like this would mean we don't just ignore that we are obviously roleplaying on an island and any characters "visiting" San Fierro or Las Venturas would hop on an imaginary flight or boat to the mainland.  

 

See the image in the spoiler below to see a rough idea of how this would operate. Obviously, the image is comparing the sizes of LS and LA, but for roleplay purposes imagine that LA was not there, or possibly even roleplay that Las Venturas and San Fierro as they exist in GTA SA occupied that space. Like this, it would only be a short flight to get from Los Santos international to the mainland. 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

GTA V's map size compared to real-life Los Angeles. : r/GTAV

 

I'm not too bothered by either prospect in all honesty as it makes little difference to the actual roleplay, but a line in the sand should be drawn so everyone knows where they stand. 

theres no need to portray it as an island whatsoever. as the GTA V wiki says:

Quote

 Lester mentioning in The Paleto Score that the body of water north of Paleto Bay is actually a river.

 

The GTA V map is a small portion of the State of San Andreas, It's in the fact the southern-most tip. There are multiple other cities in the state of San Andreas and to assume that the entire state is the playable map is stupid. Management needs to make an official ruling, but I personally and most other people I've talked will not be role-playing the existance of California, or that San Anne is an island.
 

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I've always subconsciously acknowledged that San Andreas is a replacement for the state of California. For me it's too weird to see Los Angeles co-existing with Los Santos within the same lore together, they are obviously the same place in essence as the latter was meant to parody Los Angeles.

 

We should just go with Los Santos replacing Los Angeles, with Vegas and San Francisco staying the way they are, given the fact that the HD universe is entirely different compared to the 3D one. Some might agree with this but even so, there will undoubtedly be people roleplaying otherwise— which is why there is a dire need for the establishment of lore continuity through the faction team and the community as a whole so everyone can be on the same page.

Here's what I had in mind so far:

 

JQGDCQN.png

 

This is more or less just a rough conceptual representation.

 

Edited by Tens & Twenties
map update
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