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Make Gambling Illegal


Dirk
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Gambling should be made illegal. No more casino's and no poker table furniture for players to place at their house (no donators either). Instead leave gambling as a racket to illegal factions.

 

LS-RP's gambling scene was an abomination. Players ran (if they were not bunnyhopping) to a dealer in a casino, paid them, then said 'hit' or 'stick' and usually bunnyhopped their way out again. Many of us thought things would improve with the release of the poker system. We thought wrong. Most of the poker games either had little to no roleplay at all. Soon players started exploiting the poker script. It was a way for players to sell their LS-RP money for real life funds without getting flagged. Then came a time poker could only be played at casino's, thinking it would improve roleplay and those looking to abuse the poker script to sell their virtual money for real life funds could no longer do it in private. However roleplay did not improve.

 

LS-RP has one of the best illegal faction scenes (that is a fact). Making gambling illegal could be a huge win for the illegal roleplay scene. In addition to the drugs/weapons scheme, illegal factions should be able to qualify for gambling as a scheme. With a simple script, access to poker tables (and perhaps scripted blackjack and/or baccarat in a future update) is given to faction leaders who now have the ability to place the furniture in their businesses. Factions can be held accountable for players who abuse/exploit the system (as long as a faction is aware of what is going on of course). In addition factions can be held accountable for the quality of roleplay at their poker games. 

 

Most poker players on LS-RP are mallrats (with all due respect). Making gambling illegal forces them to interact with illegal roleplayers. Perhaps they can learn a thing or two about actual roleplay. Backroom poker games? LSPD/SD raiding those games? Stick ups? Amazing. 

 

Pros of making gambling illegal:

 

  • creates additional roleplay opportunities for the illegal scene;
  • improves the quality of roleplay which involves gambling;
  • factions are now 'product owners' and can be held accountable for players abusing/exploiting.

 

Cons of making gambling illegal:

 

  • could potentially result in a loss of a small playerbase who only play LS-RP for /poker (good riddance I say);
  • legal characters such as LEO risk more than illegal characters (e.g. getting suspended for getting caught at illegal poker games).

 

 

 

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It's more of an IC issue honestly. Depending what scripts are available in this field of roleplay (I assume there's none at launch), it will most likely be addressed in the form of an IC law. I don't believe that all of gambling should be illegal though, no. Having illegal poker games makes much more sense when there's legally operating casinons as well. It is due to the fact that those backroom games usually take a much lower commission fee or whatever. As long as gambling isn't used (or literally abused) by asset-grinders I think it's cool. 

Edited by i dont wanna od in LA
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Agreed. Casinos were always awful and contributed nothing, in my opinion. On top of all this, gambling is criminalized in California, with the exception of OTB and tribal casinos. In lieu of having online gambling, you should have to engage in illegal gambling if you're trying to gamble. There's a reason illegal gambling still exists - because there's still a major market for it where states do not provide it legally.

Edited by largehazard
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My faction's real life counterpart dips its fingers into illegal gambling and things of that nature in real life California, it's something we're planning to replicate and I believe other criminal factions will also try to get involved in things like illegal gambling, it being ICly illegal on the server would be very beneficial for the illegal scene in my opinion.

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Adding onto the fact that it's illegalized in California, illegalizing it on LSRP would also increase interactions between criminals and the aforementioned civilians who are probably compulsive gamblers. Not only would it heighten roleplay around gambling but also roleplay around loansharking and other civilian-criminal interactions too, much more than the norm which is hiring them to work their legal fronts for an hour or two. 

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It's an IC issue. Everyone can literally buy pokerstars chipset online or some random poker set in a local store. The real poker games among the criminal roleplayers happened quite often, it was a mix of almost every mob sending their men to play in set places. As far as civilians wanted to play, they did their own thing, the factions ran their own joints. I see the point, making the games ran by facs so the average joe could get in debt and all, but having script restrictions is a bad way to go.

Edited by betonists
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14 minutes ago, betonists said:

It's an IC issue. Everyone can literally buy pokerstars chipset online or some random poker set in a local store. The real poker games among the criminal roleplayers happened quite often, it was a mix of almost every mob sending their men to play in set places. As far as civilians wanted to play, they did their own thing, the factions ran their own joints. I see the point, making the games ran by facs so the average joe could get in debt and all, but having script restrictions is a bad way to go.

It is an IC issue but the suggestion being raised here is a suggestion for the baseline IC laws. Not a script restriction.

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I’ll forward this to our team who works on the Penal Code and laws. Thank you for the suggestion. Personally, I believe gambling should be legal for few establishments that are licensed and proven to have quality roleplay, and anything outside of that considered illegal.

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I hope there will be disadvantages or limitations to gambling in casinos that will push some people to look for the illegal gambling scene. Otherwise, there will be few to no people choosing to engage in the illegal scene when they can just go into a casino, /pay the dealer and hit hit hold and then leave.

 

Just like Dirk says, I feel like the gambling scene on sa:mp was 99% mallrats and insufferable to interact with and the illegal gambling scene was basically inexistent. Personally, I'm sure there are a few factions who plan to engage in illegal gambling and I hope they're not restrained from doing that by the lack of players interested in it due to the legal scene being too good and having no downsides.

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1 hour ago, mattmocz said:

I’ll forward this to our team who works on the Penal Code and laws. Thank you for the suggestion. Personally, I believe gambling should be legal for few establishments that are licensed and proven to have quality roleplay, and anything outside of that considered illegal.

Gambling rules and regulations would be a great addition to the penal code. 

As well as the need to obtain a gambling license(having to pay large amount of money for it), for legitimate business if there isn't one. All that essentially would make illegal gambling more popular. Underground/backroom games would be more common. 

Edited by Tomasso
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16 hours ago, mattmocz said:

I’ll forward this to our team who works on the Penal Code and laws. Thank you for the suggestion. Personally, I believe gambling should be legal for few establishments that are licensed and proven to have quality roleplay, and anything outside of that considered illegal.

My problem with this is that it's exactly how it was on SAMP. The claim was "they're highly regulated and scrutinised" and we all know how that turned out. I don't see any benefit whatsoever for legal gambling. It's just a business for someone to run, like any other. Illegal gambling, on the other hand, provides massive opportunities for illegal factions. Opportunities that do not exist when gambling is legal. Even if you have just one casino, why would you go to gamble illegally if you can just gamble there? It kills the industry for factions.

 

I'd like to see the opportunity for a tribal casino maybe, because at least that would be different and provide something to the server. It'd also reflect California's real gambling laws. Other than that, I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be illegal.

 

In future it'd be cool to have online gambling too, to balance out illegal gambling, considering that's where it's mostly done these days. I don't imagine developing an app like that is particularly high on the list of priorities at this early stage though.

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I understand where you are coming from but I'm not in favor of making an OOC restriction which makes it against server rules for legal role-players to do any form of gambling. I'm with you that the previous gambling scene shouldn't return. Just saying hit or stick and then cashing in is poor roleplay and should instead be addressed. Gambling businesses should have some kind of duty to help enforce said issues. 

 

Now, if it's made illegal per law, then you have something completely different in which legal role-players could still partake in the games, but with the risks that come with it. 

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locking gambling behind a subset of factions given the power to regulate who can and cant play? no thanks

 

if you want to gamble illegally in the backroom of a front then do it, nobody is stopping you. the idea that illegal gambling never happened on old lsrp because civilian gambling was too prevalent is a massive copout. you dont need IFM holding your hand in order for you to setup behind the scenes gambling networks

 

people arent chilling out the backs of laundromats smoking their cuban cigars waiting for the door to open so they can gamble with their friends lol all you're doing is artificially limiting access to a script so you have psuedo power as an organized crime faction. theres abs nothing stopping you from doing any of this while pre-existing legal establishments exist 

Edited by yekim
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17 minutes ago, yekim said:

locking gambling behind a subset of factions given the power to regulate who can and cant play? no thanks

 

if you want to gamble illegally in the backroom of a front, then do it, nobody is stopping you. the idea that illegal gambling never happened on old lsrp because civilian gambling was too prevalent is a massive copout. you dont need IFM holding your hand in order for you to setup behind the scenes gambling networks

 

people arent chilling out the back of laundromats smoking their cuban cigars waiting for the door to open so they can gamble with their friends lol all you're doing is artificially limiting access to a script so you have psuedo power as an organized crime faction. theres abs nothing stopping you from doing any of this

 

Maybe I have found myself lost in translation, but the OP's suggestion is to align the laws around gambling in sync with the rest of the laws it incorporates -- based on actuality. This restriction will affect everyone, regardless of category. Legal roleplayers have just as much incentive to gamble illegally than the illegal roleplayers do, the same way they do in real life. Not all "backroom poker games" are like the stereotype you just described, in fact, they're the opposite. Outside of states like Nevada, New Jersey and Illinois, private gambling is a lot more widespread for civilians than the people representing the genre even know or will admit. Just because it's illegal by definition doesn't mean they don't do it.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Chuckles said:

 

Maybe I have found myself lost in translation, but the OP's suggestion is to align the laws around gambling in sync with the rest of the laws it incorporates -- based on actuality. This restriction will affect everyone, regardless of category. Legal roleplayers have just as much incentive to gamble illegally than the illegal roleplayers do, the same way they do in real life. Not all "backroom poker games" are like the stereotype you just described, in fact, they're the opposite. Outside of states like Nevada, New Jersey and Illinois, private gambling is a lot more widespread for civilians than the people representing the genre even know or will admit. Just because it's illegal by definition doesn't mean they don't do it.

 

 

 

i concede that i caricatured illegal gambling to some extent but based on how lsrp was in the past, i genuinely believe thats how it would play out given the suggestion above. monopolizing a key feature behind a select few OCNs just screams bad idea, especially when OP's thread is built on the pretence that its there to regulate shitty civilian roleplayers. i hate pseudo admin systems and they have a history of not working.

 

disallowing private civilian games? sure, i'm on board with, but denying the ability to gamble at a licensed casino? idk it seems like a power complex. OP is under the impression that banning gambling of all kinds will push civilian roleplayers into the illegal world and improve quality, which i categorically disbelieve. we could instead go down a route where admins are more stringent about rp within casinos and pursue people who dont meet standards

Edited by yekim
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29 minutes ago, yekim said:

 

i concede that i caricatured illegal gambling to some extent but based on how lsrp was in the past, i genuinely believe thats how it would play out given the suggestion above. monopolizing a key feature behind a select few OCNs just screams bad idea, especially when OP's thread is built on the pretence that its there to regulate shitty civilian roleplayers. i hate pseudo admin systems and they have a history of not working.

 

disallowing private civilian games? sure, i'm on board with, but denying the ability to gamble at a licensed casino? idk it seems like a power complex. OP is under the impression that banning gambling of all kinds will push civilian roleplayers into the illegal world and improve quality, which i categorically disbelieve. we could instead go down a route where admins are more stringent about rp within casinos and pursue people who dont meet standards

Disallowing private civilian games would be a script restriction. I disagree with that. Disallowing casinos is an IC legal restriction. It's not an 'admin system'. Technically anybody could run their own little casino, they'd only be breaking the law, which is exactly what illicit gambling is. It isn't all backrooms and cigar smoke.

 

I should've corrected myself, if somebody wants to gamble they should have to set up a private game or seek out an unregistered (illegal) game where everything is done for them. Which is, y'know, how physical (not online) gambling works in states where casinos aren't legal.

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30 minutes ago, largehazard said:

Disallowing private civilian games would be a script restriction. I disagree with that. Disallowing casinos is an IC legal restriction. It's not an 'admin system'. Technically anybody could run their own little casino, they'd only be breaking the law, which is exactly what illicit gambling is. It isn't all backrooms and cigar smoke.

 

I should've corrected myself, if somebody wants to gamble they should have to set up a private game or seek out an unregistered (illegal) game where everything is done for them. Which is, y'know, how physical (not online) gambling works in states where casinos aren't legal.

 

Quote

Disallowing private civilian games would be a script restriction. I disagree with that. Disallowing casinos is an IC legal restriction. It's not an 'admin system'. Technically anybody could run their own little casino, they'd only be breaking the law, which is exactly what illicit gambling is. It isn't all backrooms and cigar smoke. 

 

but that isnt the original idea now, is it? (read the first line of OP's post) dirk wants to prohibit script gambling for everyone (except cherry picked OC leaders), so please tell me how criminalizing an entire area of roleplay, and limiting it to a select few (through the script), isnt an admin system? especially when it rests on the idea that everyone else can't be trusted cuz theyre dogshit rpers?? 

 

so i take it uve revised your earlier post and stand against dirk's idea then? since you don't want to introduce script limitations? you should probably modify your earlier statement 2 make sure!

Edited by yekim
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30 minutes ago, yekim said:

 

 

but that isnt the original idea now, is it? (read the first line of OP's post) dirk wants to prohibit script gambling for everyone (except cherry picked OC leaders), so please tell me how criminalizing an entire area of roleplay, and limiting it to a select few (through the script), isnt an admin system? especially when it rests on the idea that everyone else can't be trusted cuz theyre dogshit rpers?? 

 

so i take it uve revised your earlier post and stand against dirk's idea then? since you don't want to introduce script limitations? you should probably modify your earlier statement 2 make sure!

I hadn't clocked that part of the suggestion. Yes, I disagree with a script restriction. Poker games should be accessible to everyone, and gambling beyond a certain dollar amount should be illegal.

 

There's no need to restrict poker to 'tables' at all either, whether we're talking about legal or illegal gambling. A deck of cards should suffice.

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I think the consensus is that low-mid stake games are not really a concern but these high-stake games tend to be relatively unregulated, unrealistic and unchallenged. I'd be in favour of introducing some form of not regulation, but separation. I think if we found a way to segregate them both we'd be working towards common ground. I'm against script regulation for low-mid stake games but high stakes should require some sort of imposition.

 

So, IC laws should generally prohibit it all from that perspective and that perspective alone, but unrealistically high stake games should be modulated and kept under control. Possibly the implementation of two script features. Low stakes games should be playable with a deck of cards and cash and there's a limit on blinds. High stake games would require poker chips that would bypass the aforementioned limit on blinds in which its logs would be moderated. And I know poker chips are readily accessible to everyone but it's about finding a suitable arrangement to accommodate two contrasting situations. 

 

 

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now that implementation makes a lot more sense. i'm more than happy for high-stake games to be guarded by script features which only OC factions have access to - it solves a lot of issues i do agree exist. implying a grounded economy i should be able to play for a couple hundred to a few thousand with friends, privately, without having to know LCN associates or a guy who knows a guy

 

anything beyond that? yeah, sure - a group who enforces payout and ensures protection is a matter of realism

Edited by yekim
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