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San Andreas Judiciary / Courts, what would you like to see?


RyanW
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Hello, my name is RyanW, for those of who you don't know me I am currently the Chief Justice for the San Andreas Judiciary / Courts.

 

The purpose of this thread is to gather ideas and input from the community in terms of what you want to see from the courts. What kind of involvement you'd like to have & how you'd like to see the courts interact with you in game.

The current idea is that you will be able to contest any charges you receive in game with the opportunity to have your charges thrown out, modified or changed based on evidence presented when your file is reviewed. 

If you have any questions, now's the time to ask as well.

 

 

Thanks a bunch,

 

RyanW

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how does one become a judge

SERGEANT FELIX ENCARNACION - LSSD                                                                                                                                                

             MAJOR CRIMES BUREAU

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1 hour ago, RyanW said:

theres nothing there my good sir

SERGEANT FELIX ENCARNACION - LSSD                                                                                                                                                

             MAJOR CRIMES BUREAU

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13 hours ago, Jerome said:

theres nothing there my good sir

RyanW is still working on it.

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DEPUTY SHERIFF (BONUS II) CHAD AARON KRASINSKI
A/OPERATIONS SERGEANT, CUSTODY SERVICES DIVISION
LOS SANTOS COUNTY SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT — "A TRADITION OF SERVICE"
 

ALSO A/LIEUTENANT JAMAL CHAQUILLE CARR
TEAM LEADER, OPERATION SAFE JAILS

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To get started, I'm not sure if everything I address falls under the responsibilities of the judiciary but I hope everything falls on the right ears in the end. Also I will not go into detail with everything right now.

 

About the fundamentals, I'm pretty sure only way to have a properly functioning legal system is some kind of OOC plea after every arrest. It's simply necessary to not overflow District Attorney's Office with having to arraign everyone even if they have no plan to fight the charges. 

 

  • OOCly pleading not guilty means that District Attorney's Office will start the procedure to arraign the defendant. To avoid situation where one waits for arraignment in jail longer than he would serve if convicted, decent bail system needs to be implemented.
  • OOCly pleading guilty should be roleplayed as if defendant was taken to the NPC judge where he pleaded guilty. Then he shall be imprisoned by the LEO in accordance with standards set in the penal code.
  • Additionally some cases should be forced to the court. (CKs, some strike system for repeated offenders etc)

Difficult part if finding the right environment for trials. I encourage you to keep it in game as much as possible, however I know that there are issues with matching timezones etc. It would need discussion in larger group.

 

There are also few more specific points I'd like to bring out.

 

1) Introducing court clerk as an actual player filled position would not be smart move. At least not right after the launch as we do not know the actual interest in the judiciary roleplay, it would be somewhat waste of resource. You could simply NPC court clerk as it holds no crucial functions (If there are some, feel free to correct me). 

 

2) Warrants should be a must. I have explained it's importance before so I will simply copy it. Warrant applications can be distributed through forum or even Discord with proper plugin.

 

Spoiler
On 1/6/2022 at 10:32 AM, eminence grise said:

As I have been part of the judicial scene of GTA W for long enough, there weren't any major issues with the warrant system. It's especially important when it comes to large scale operations. Having judge approve warrants, would be another filter to avoid metagaming. I'm sure it would reduce situations where after raid, heated argument arises whether it was based on OOC information. Obviously it would not be complete guarantee but it would help without a doubt. Also, I'm positive that there is enough interest in the judiciary to provide server with enough judges so there would not be excessive waiting period on the warrants.

 

I understand that this is a game and we should not go too deep into the complex reality of legal system and overdevelop bureaucracy but having some kind of separation of powers would do server good. Tying hands of law enforcement agencies to some extent, will enhance the quality and thoroughness. Plus the OOC aspect I mentioned before. 

 

Fiendfyre mentioned that issue before was lack of cooperation by LEO factions. That's why I think it is important to have properly functioning legal system ready once the server opens. It is much more complicated integrating such affecting addition once LEOs have already gotten used to the system without courts. 

 

 

3) Straightforward legislation for procedural aspects should be set in stone. It may not seem that important at first but it can make the system collapse in long term. Also adjusting some of the Californian landmark cases to San Andreas will help create the realistic environment.

 

4) Introducing state level RICO act would add depth to both legal and illegal roleplay. Plus, possibility of your illegally gained assets being confiscated, brings in the need for white collar aspect in organised crime. Roleplaying around legal fronts would then serve it's purpose as it allows you to cover the tracks of illegally obtained cash.

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4 minutes ago, Fiendfyre said:

So are you guys going to fill judges for all playtimes? Are PD/SD going to be required to take you to the courthouse if you request it? What if a judge isn't available when a person is trying to have their charges reviewed? 

Having courts on the forums solves everything.

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17 hours ago, eminence grise said:

2) Warrants should be a must. I have explained it's importance before so I will simply copy it. Warrant applications can be distributed through forum or even Discord with proper plugin.

agree, having a good warrants "system"/concept would be a really great addition to the game. same with RICO.

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3 hours ago, Fiendfyre said:

So are you guys going to fill judges for all playtimes? Are PD/SD going to be required to take you to the courthouse if you request it? What if a judge isn't available when a person is trying to have their charges reviewed? 

In game court is likely going to be optional depending on agreement of the parties involved in the case. Most cases will be probably done on the forums.

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I'd personally like to see a points based system in where different charges have different points associated with them (as seen in other communities). 

For example a player receives a 1st degree murder charge and is convicted. They get x amount of time in prison and coupled with that, the points that come with 1st degree murder get tacked on to the players record. The points is an accumulation based system where a player needs to reach a points threshold in order to be considered for a life sentence. This is the cleanest way in which I've seen the courts handled and it doesn't allow much for negotiation or reading in between the lines. Obviously you'll have multipliers and conditionals like the RICO act, Gang Enhancements, etc but the gist I hope I explained well enough.

 

I'm not in favor of a three strikes law because one it's being abandoned in California due to mass incarceration, two not all crimes are one and the same, if you only attain a strike on capitol, or "high" level crimes then the only punishment you receive for something like a petty theft is the time served which is a consequence but not enough in my opinion. The fear needs to be there for criminal roleplayers to not stack up charges as it is in real life. 

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On 1/18/2022 at 4:40 PM, eminence grise said:

To get started, I'm not sure if everything I address falls under the responsibilities of the judiciary but I hope everything falls on the right ears in the end. Also I will not go into detail with everything right now.

 

About the fundamentals, I'm pretty sure only way to have a properly functioning legal system is some kind of OOC plea after every arrest. It's simply necessary to not overflow District Attorney's Office with having to arraign everyone even if they have no plan to fight the charges. 

 

  • OOCly pleading not guilty means that District Attorney's Office will start the procedure to arraign the defendant. To avoid situation where one waits for arraignment in jail longer than he would serve if convicted, decent bail system needs to be implemented.
  • OOCly pleading guilty should be roleplayed as if defendant was taken to the NPC judge where he pleaded guilty. Then he shall be imprisoned by the LEO in accordance with standards set in the penal code.
  • Additionally some cases should be forced to the court. (CKs, some strike system for repeated offenders etc)

Difficult part if finding the right environment for trials. I encourage you to keep it in game as much as possible, however I know that there are issues with matching timezones etc. It would need discussion in larger group.

 

There are also few more specific points I'd like to bring out.

 

1) Introducing court clerk as an actual player filled position would not be smart move. At least not right after the launch as we do not know the actual interest in the judiciary roleplay, it would be somewhat waste of resource. You could simply NPC court clerk as it holds no crucial functions (If there are some, feel free to correct me). 

 

2) Warrants should be a must. I have explained it's importance before so I will simply copy it. Warrant applications can be distributed through forum or even Discord with proper plugin.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

3) Straightforward legislation for procedural aspects should be set in stone. It may not seem that important at first but it can make the system collapse in long term. Also adjusting some of the Californian landmark cases to San Andreas will help create the realistic environment.

 

4) Introducing state level RICO act would add depth to both legal and illegal roleplay. Plus, possibility of your illegally gained assets being confiscated, brings in the need for white collar aspect in organised crime. Roleplaying around legal fronts would then serve it's purpose as it allows you to cover the tracks of illegally obtained cash.


Most of what you said is already implimented in LSRP. It seems pretty apparent that you haven't had much experience in the legal scene here on LSRP. Courts are held on the forums, warrants are already a thing and already must be signed off by a judge. Legislation is also already a thing and we have numerous acts coming into play on launch from legislation.

 

We also already have a RICO Act.

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8 hours ago, Fiendfyre said:

So are you guys going to fill judges for all playtimes? Are PD/SD going to be required to take you to the courthouse if you request it? What if a judge isn't available when a person is trying to have their charges reviewed? 


Judges are around as much as they can be; at the end of the day it's a game and not a part-time job. PD/SD won't be required to take you to the courthouse in game at the time of your arrest. You'll get the opportunity to contest your charges on the forum post-arrest. 

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9 hours ago, RyanW said:


Judges are around as much as they can be; at the end of the day it's a game and not a part-time job. PD/SD won't be required to take you to the courthouse in game at the time of your arrest. You'll get the opportunity to contest your charges on the forum post-arrest. 

I expect for the possibility of charge drop outs on criminals that eventually will cut them loose if courts are to take place in the game. Not always a win to win play by the PD/SD once arrested, let the criminals run from the charges too from time to time If not found guilty.

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15 hours ago, RyanW said:


Judges are around as much as they can be; at the end of the day it's a game and not a part-time job. PD/SD won't be required to take you to the courthouse in game at the time of your arrest. You'll get the opportunity to contest your charges on the forum post-arrest. 

So the exact way it was on samp. Gotcha

 

Is the not having to go to IA before contesting still in place? 
 

 

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15 hours ago, RyanW said:

Most of what you said is already implimented in LSRP. It seems pretty apparent that you haven't had much experience in the legal scene here on LSRP. Courts are held on the forums, warrants are already a thing and already must be signed off by a judge. Legislation is also already a thing and we have numerous acts coming into play on launch from legislation.

 

We also already have a RICO Act.

Courts were also held IG when judges were available, we also had a discord channel where PD/SD could long judges as they called them IG - Only used for urgent cases. 

 

22 hours ago, mtz64 said:

agree, having a good warrants "system"/concept would be a really great addition to the game. same with RICO.

Warrants and RICO have already existed in LSRP. 

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45 minutes ago, Fiendfyre said:

Is the not having to go to IA before contesting still in place? 
 

 

Having to go through IA first to file a law suit made no sense imo.

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1 hour ago, Kane said:

 

Having to go through IA first to file a law suit made no sense imo.

I completely agree and that's why I personally made it very easy for people to appeal charges the best I could when I was chief justice.  I'm just trying to make sure that it's still going to be a thing. 

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10 hours ago, KnownAlmighty said:

I expect for the possibility of charge drop outs on criminals that eventually will cut them loose if courts are to take place in the game. Not always a win to win play by the PD/SD once arrested, let the criminals run from the charges too from time to time If not found guilty.

Depending on the way the jail times work, this can be entirely possible without in game court. If you are in jail for a few days and appeal to the DA’s office, if they see your charges are bogus or don’t have enough to prosecute in court they could be dismissed and you may be set free.

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2 hours ago, Fiendfyre said:

I completely agree and that's why I personally made it very easy for people to appeal charges the best I could when I was chief justice.  I'm just trying to make sure that it's still going to be a thing. 

Players will not have to file an IA report before contesting their charges. The process is yet to be entirely decided but RyanW and I are working on ways for players to appeal their charges in a way that isn’t a complete hassle or difficult.

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4 hours ago, mattmocz said:

Players will not have to file an IA report before contesting their charges. The process is yet to be entirely decided but RyanW and I are working on ways for players to appeal their charges in a way that isn’t a complete hassle or difficult.

Are you also in charge of the courts? Apologies but the only one RyanW has identified as running the courts is himself. 

 

I had an efficiently written way for contesting charges that wasn't difficult or a hassle on the samp forums, from when I was chief justice 

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On 1/20/2022 at 5:49 PM, Fiendfyre said:

Are you also in charge of the courts? Apologies but the only one RyanW has identified as running the courts is himself. 

 

I had an efficiently written way for contesting charges that wasn't difficult or a hassle on the samp forums, from when I was chief justice 

I am in courts leadership and assisting with the courts, yes. If you have any suggestions feel free on how things can be done hassle free, feel free to message me on discord mattmocz#4508.

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