Map Restrictions

[Kirigakure]

Compared to San Andreas the GTA 5 is massive and even when the gta server has 700+ players active the map feels incredibly empty outside of the businesses which serve as hubs to find RP.

It would be cool if the map started off heavily restricted as far as support for interiors, businesses and homes then expanded as neighborhoods filled. This means we would have a busy street with several businesses open on it all the time as opposed to random things scattered all across the massive map. 

 

However I am not saying that the entire server should be restricted to a tiny area. I mean several different points on the map serving as hubs for communities to form around.

For example the hood areas would focus on filling the houses around the davis and the businesses around the clothing store.

 

Davis
-black/latino gangs

 

Vespucci
-mobs
-legal rpers

 

Vinewood
-mobs; jews, italians

 

Downtown
-lspd
-offices; law firms, doctors

 

County
-sherriff
-gangs; bikers, trailer trash, etc

 

None of the groups above are restricted to those areas but just an example of the types of factions people like to play and the areas they tend to open around. Just start off with an area for each type of faction so everyone can be close together and actual run into players while walking around their neighborhood as opposed to all RP taking place in houses.

 

When I moved from NGRP to LSRP this was what I immediately noticed back in the day. Even though NGRP had slightly more players at the time that I switched over it felt like much less because you had players spread all throughout LS, San Fierro, Tierra Robada and the county. Where as in LS-RP you could walk through Ganton/Idlewood and even East LS and run into people posted on every block.

 

Even though people look down upon the Mall and Idlestacks I think having those known areas where people gravitate to when their friends or faction are offline or at random hours in the night are important. 

 

RP requires another person, keeping everyone close together would make the game seem 100x more alive.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Kirigakure

[chrillzen]

That's the nature of the game. Hub oriented. So: create more hubs. We should not restrict any interiors or any place for that matter just to have more people outside on the street. There may be a problem about how difficult it is to find role play in the open world though, but that's not solved through any means of restriction. I think you should focus your efforts on solving that problem first. If we need more role play going on, it would be solved by... more role play, am I wrong?

Edited December 16, 2021 by chrillzen

[Kirigakure]

1 minute ago, chrillzen said:

That's the nature of the game. Hub oriented. So: create more hubs. We should not restrict any interiors or any place for that matter just to have more people outside on the street. There may be a problem about how difficult it is to find role play in the open world though, but that's not solved through any means of restriction. I think you should focus your efforts on solving that problem first. If we need more role play going on, it would be solved by... more role play, am I wrong?

 

Yes, you are wrong. For role-play to occur you need other players to interact with. 

 

More people outside on the street means more people to interact with and RP with. 

 

As it is currently on GTAW, there is hardly any people on the streets and if you do spot someone you cannot interact with them as they are likely in a car driving at maximum speed to an open business on the opposite end of town.

 

This issue is entirely solved by focusing on developing several hotspots on the map where you are garunteed to always find players going about their business, loitering and RPing. It is also what LS-RP did differently in the past on SA-MP compared to the other servers as I stated in the OP. 

 

As far as restricting interiors, let me clarify; I am saying the location of where you can open a business or buy houses should be restricted, I am not saying the interiors you can design should be restricted in anyway. 

[chrillzen]

7 minutes ago, Kirigakure said:

 

Yes, you are wrong. For role-play to occur you need other players to interact with. 

 

More people outside on the street means more people to interact with and RP with. 

 

As it is currently on GTAW, there is hardly any people on the streets and if you do spot someone you cannot interact with them as they are likely in a car driving at maximum speed to an open business on the opposite end of town.

 

This issue is entirely solved by focusing on developing several hotspots on the map where you are garunteed to always find players going about their business, loitering and RPing. It is also what LS-RP did differently in the past on SA-MP compared to the other servers as I stated in the OP. 

 

As far as restricting interiors, let me clarify; I am saying the location of where you can open a business or buy houses should be restricted, I am not saying the interiors you can design should be restricted in anyway. 

 

But your solution comes at a cost too great. Last thing we want to do is limit players and their role play. If they wish to set down shop somewhere in God knows where, then why stop them? So that we can have more players on the street? Quality over quantity. Liberty over restriction. You want to develop hotspots in specific places, but that will happen naturally anyway. So, where would you have these hotspots, and what would they be? What do you suppose these players will be doing on the street? You're forgetting about the intent of role play just so that you can have an illusion of a city that is more "alive." I rather have actual role play going on, then a facade. There may be characters and factions that do not fit in your limited areas of operation.

[Natasha Valentine]

2 hours ago, Kirigakure said:

Compared to San Andreas the GTA 5 is massive and even when the gta server has 700+ players active the map feels incredibly empty outside of the businesses which serve as hubs to find RP.

It would be cool if the map started off heavily restricted as far as support for interiors, businesses and homes then expanded as neighborhoods filled. This means we would have a busy street with several businesses open on it all the time as opposed to random things scattered all across the massive map. 

 

However I am not saying that the entire server should be restricted to a tiny area. I mean several different points on the map serving as hubs for communities to form around.

For example the hood areas would focus on filling the houses around the davis and the businesses around the clothing store.

 

Davis
-black/latino gangs

 

Vespucci
-mobs
-legal rpers

 

Vinewood
-mobs; jews, italians

 

Downtown
-lspd
-offices; law firms, doctors

 

County
-sherriff
-gangs; bikers, trailer trash, etc

 

None of the groups above are restricted to those areas but just an example of the types of factions people like to play and the areas they tend to open around. Just start off with an area for each type of faction so everyone can be close together and actual run into players while walking around their neighborhood as opposed to all RP taking place in houses.

 

When I moved from NGRP to LSRP this was what I immediately noticed back in the day. Even though NGRP had slightly more players at the time that I switched over it felt like much less because you had players spread all throughout LS, San Fierro, Tierra Robada and the county. Where as in LS-RP you could walk through Ganton/Idlewood and even East LS and run into people posted on every block.

 

Even though people look down upon the Mall and Idlestacks I think having those known areas where people gravitate to when their friends or faction are offline or at random hours in the night are important. 

 

RP requires another person, keeping everyone close together would make the game seem 100x more alive.

 

I understand what you are trying to say but people will find their own methods and grow on their own in order to create RP and to interact with others. For example a gang will take over Grove Street and slowly build itself up over time with more active gang members and hood rpers. People through legal means will also grow in their own areas of the map and some people like bikers or whoever might want to RP out in the country parts of the map and in the city at their own "localized" spots away from the majority. Players enjoy different areas to role-play in and may even benefit from it and we shouldn't really limit players from that.

 

That being said, I don't think the entire map will be housed on the day of release. That'd be a lot of housing for the administration to put down and will most likely be done slowly over time,  which will allow everyone to grow at a steady pace during the server launch. I don't think it'll be as strict as you mentioned above but it still will be managed as the server moves forward and some of the richer areas like Vinewood hills will open up, people won't be able to afford them right away anyway.

Edited December 16, 2021 by Natasha Valentine

[chrillzen]

3 minutes ago, Natasha Valentine said:

 

I understand what you are trying to say but people will find their own methods and grow on their own in order to create RP and to interact with others. For example a gang will take over Grove Street and slowly build itself up over time with more active gang members and hood rpers. People through legal means will also grow in their own areas of the map and some people like bikers or whoever might want to RP out in the country parts of the map and in the city at their own "localized" spots away from the majority. Players enjoy different areas to role-play in and may even benefit from it and we shouldn't really limit players from that.

 

That being said, I don't think the entire map will be housed on the day of release. That'd be a lot of housing for the administration to put down and will most likely be done slowly over time,  which will allow everyone to grow at a steady pace during the server launch. I don't think it'll be as strict as you mentioned above but it still will be managed as the server moves forward and some of the richer areas like Vinewood hills will open up, people won't be able to afford them right away anyway.

 

Houses should be created in any environment granted that the request is merited. 

[IdleStacks]

OP has a really good point, and it's something I've been thinking about for a while now. But I haven't been able to come up with any decent solution.

 

The fact is, GTA V's map is fucking massive compared to SA's. SA had 3 cities and it STILL wasn't nearly as big, and we all know how active SF and LV were. I think this is an issue that the community is going to just have to be mindful about, try to keep ourselves concentrated in LS only, at the very least. I'm sad to say but GTA V's country side is fucking garbage compared even to SA's, while still being ridiculously huge and far away. I fear that it's mostly going to be Tierra Robada-like, an absolute ghost town that has no purpose other than set dressing for people to drive through and the very occasional faction that tries to set up shop there (and inevitably fails because nobody but faction members ever shows up).

 

If we're lucky maybe the country side can become a popular destination to lose the cops, but I'm not hopeful about even that since it takes enough time to get there that you'd end up with 10 different tails anyway. On server release I'd definitely not bother with anything but LS. Let the server develop a bit before splitting up the population. But really, it's a super-complicated issue and one that has no good solution, the map is, quite simply, way too big to properly accommodate roleplay between even a thousand people. Other than some mapping magic to scale the map down a bit (would this be possible, or even desirable, really?), I just don't know.

Edited December 16, 2021 by IdleStacks

[joxii]

Restriction is the first way to ruin someone's experience. If you wanted to do something and the server automatically didn't let you do it, it would put a distaste in your mouth. I understand where you're coming from, however, it's not feasible or ideal. 

 

The server will have its hubs, and it will have its general areas of congregation but that's how it has always been. Players aren't meant to be all in the same area, I've always been a fan of the spread playerbase because it allows you to role play around different cultures of characters. 

 

I've never been a fan of multiple types of the same business open at once though and that is from a feasibility point of view — the business sector will need to be handled delicately (I'd argue the way we did it on LSRP, or a slightly altered version would be ideal long-term) due to the stretching of the playerbase already, it would only creative a negative perception of business activity. 

[yekim]

i think its important to understand why people are fed up with gta world and are desperately seeking an alternative. quality, freedom and a lack of support for illegal rp are in my opinion the biggest drivers for player discontent over there, so going against that by restricting player housing is not a good idea. effort should be placed on developing businesses and key areas so hubs appear naturally.

 

renovate the mega mall and add another in vespucci 

make a public park closer to the center of the map and add spawn points nearby for easy access

add an efficient public transport system which allows people to get around the map easier (and no, dont just add player taxis and expect them to ferry people 24/7. make an NPC controlled subway system and an NPC driven bus route)

dont make everything a UCP feature. ie skin customization should be done IG.

place default businesses at one or two locations max and don't scatter them across the map just because it makes more sense for the lore. a phone shop, jewellery shop, barber shop and clothing shop should all be next to each other at an easy to access location like the davis mega mall. this funnels players into one area and so long as there's other things for them to do there, will facilitate excess roleplay

 

and let the rest work itself out naturally. given the systems are in place people will make their own roleplay 

 

Edited December 18, 2021 by yekim

[ColossalBQ]

I'd rather recommend we look into the player base, if we have a large player base I believe we would be spread all over in the county too (ofc not the entire map but at least some parts), even though san andreas was a way smaller map we still had places such as las venturas and san fierro empty with nobody roleplaying, I believe we will get adopted in time and see what is what.

[La Tweaker]

On 12/16/2021 at 5:48 PM, Kirigakure said:

Vespucci
-mobs
-legal rpers

 

Vinewood
-mobs; jews, italians

 

Downtown
-lspd
-offices; law firms, doctors

The truth is these areas are rife with gangs in real life, how would restricting the areas to mobs do anything besides restrict rp and stop people from rping what they want?

[Kirill_Ustinov]

restrictions don't work on a RP community, this isn't FiveM 32 player community nor gang war server, where everyone has their own turfs and must remain at their "spawn point sectors?" o.o

[Garndor]

I think restricting the map could be a good idea to start with, it would force players to role play in a portion of the map to start with however this would need to be monitored uber carefully as the player-base grows. It would be very difficult to manage the expansions and what house/businesses should be available to what players when the expansion is released.

 

Although a good idea I think it will be difficult to manage and not worth the extra work/issues it may cause.

 

Hopefully this server can get a lot of traction when it opens up and the map won’t feel as empty as you think. 

[Kirigakure]

23 hours ago, ColossalBQ said:

I'd rather recommend we look into the player base, if we have a large player base I believe we would be spread all over in the county too (ofc not the entire map but at least some parts), even though san andreas was a way smaller map we still had places such as las venturas and san fierro empty with nobody roleplaying, I believe we will get adopted in time and see what is what.

7 hours ago, Garndor said:

I think restricting the map could be a good idea to start with, it would force players to role play in a portion of the map to start with however this would need to be monitored uber carefully as the player-base grows. It would be very difficult to manage the expansions and what house/businesses should be available to what players when the expansion is released.

 

Although a good idea I think it will be difficult to manage and not worth the extra work/issues it may cause.

 

Hopefully this server can get a lot of traction when it opens up and the map won’t feel as empty as you think. 

GTAW has up to 700 players online during peak hours some days and the issue with the majority of the map being a ghost town. 

 

On 12/17/2021 at 4:59 AM, owen said:

Restriction is the first way to ruin someone's experience. If you wanted to do something and the server automatically didn't let you do it, it would put a distaste in your mouth. I understand where you're coming from, however, it's not feasible or ideal. 

 

The server will have its hubs, and it will have its general areas of congregation but that's how it has always been. Players aren't meant to be all in the same area, I've always been a fan of the spread playerbase because it allows you to role play around different cultures of characters. 

 

I've never been a fan of multiple types of the same business open at once though and that is from a feasibility point of view — the business sector will need to be handled delicately (I'd argue the way we did it on LSRP, or a slightly altered version would be ideal long-term) due to the stretching of the playerbase already, it would only creative a negative perception of business activity. 

 

What you want to do isn't really being restricted though. You can still create or do whatever you want in terms of the interior/business idea. 'Different culture of characters' would still exist. 

 

In the end all it would mean is that if there are 5 groups of players, they would be occupying five different streets in one of the areas and then be sharing one or two streets in the areas to open their businesses on as opposed to these players being spread all throughout the map with no possible chance of interacting with one another. 

On 12/18/2021 at 2:21 AM, yekim said:

i think its important to understand why people are fed up with gta world and are desperately seeking an alternative. quality, freedom and a lack of support for illegal rp are in my opinion the biggest drivers for player discontent over there, so going against that by restricting player housing is not a good idea. effort should be placed on developing businesses and key areas so hubs appear naturally.

 

renovate the mega mall and add another in vespucci 

make a public park closer to the center of the map and add spawn points nearby for easy access

add an efficient public transport system which allows people to get around the map easier (and no, dont just add player taxis and expect them to ferry people 24/7. make an NPC controlled subway system and an NPC driven bus route)

dont make everything a UCP feature. ie skin customization should be done IG.

place default businesses at one or two locations max and don't scatter them across the map just because it makes more sense for the lore. a phone shop, jewellery shop, barber shop and clothing shop should all be next to each other at an easy to access location like the davis mega mall. this funnels players into one area and so long as there's other things for them to do there, will facilitate excess roleplay

 

and let the rest work itself out naturally. given the systems are in place people will make their own roleplay 

 

I agree with that as well, especially the lack of support for illegal RP but most of those points have already been heavily discussed which is why I am bringing up the issue of GTA 5s map and how even 700+ players is not enough to prevent it from mostly being a ghost town. 

Other than that I agree with all of your alternate solutions those are great ideas as well. The game needs to be designed in a way that players are funneled into interactions and encounters with other players. My suggestion is perhaps a little strong handed and it would be better if the average player was being funneled in a way they do not realize they are being funneled;

However, if the server opened and in the UCP the property application forum just stated what buildings are available for use then the majority of the people disagreeing with this would not even notice and just apply to create whatever business they wanted in one of the buildings made available to them. A lot of the complaints against this are just buzzwords or kneejerk reactions to the word 'restrictions',

 

'restrict bad' 'freedom good'

Roleplay and restrictions go hand in hand. There is no such thing as RP without restrictions.

 

 

RP with freedom and liberty 

[Kirigakure]

On 12/16/2021 at 4:10 PM, IdleStacks said:

OP has a really good point, and it's something I've been thinking about for a while now. But I haven't been able to come up with any decent solution.

 

The fact is, GTA V's map is fucking massive compared to SA's. SA had 3 cities and it STILL wasn't nearly as big, and we all know how active SF and LV were. I think this is an issue that the community is going to just have to be mindful about, try to keep ourselves concentrated in LS only, at the very least. I'm sad to say but GTA V's country side is fucking garbage compared even to SA's, while still being ridiculously huge and far away. I fear that it's mostly going to be Tierra Robada-like, an absolute ghost town that has no purpose other than set dressing for people to drive through and the very occasional faction that tries to set up shop there (and inevitably fails because nobody but faction members ever shows up).

 

If we're lucky maybe the country side can become a popular destination to lose the cops, but I'm not hopeful about even that since it takes enough time to get there that you'd end up with 10 different tails anyway. On server release I'd definitely not bother with anything but LS. Let the server develop a bit before splitting up the population. But really, it's a super-complicated issue and one that has no good solution, the map is, quite simply, way too big to properly accommodate roleplay between even a thousand people. Other than some mapping magic to scale the map down a bit (would this be possible, or even desirable, really?), I just don't know.

 Facts

[r0yal]

Despite the GTA V map being huge I've always found that interactions outside of the city happen waaay more than they did on SAMP. I can count on one hand in the 8 years I played LS:RP that I ran into people outside of any of the towns on SAMP. On World I've experienced the coolest roleplay in the weirdest places and have seen this since the server had 300~ players all the way up until now. I don't think limiting parts of the map is a smart idea as this'll just restrict peoples roleplay ideas for launch and hamper any development less visited areas will have had anyway. Players are going to be very passionate and looking to try new things when the server first launches and hindering this will just upset people.

 

Reasons just need to be made for people to venture outside of the city. World's system of player-ran businesses being marked green meant that I often would travel across the map while I was in SD solely to roleplay with a business that was open; and then on the way you had the potential of stumbling into somebody roleplaying a broken down car or a plethora of other things.

 

Hubs will form naturally and dissolve naturally over time, there's no use trying to force it.

Edited January 3, 2022 by r0yal

[Sparkles]

19 hours ago, r0yal said:

Despite the GTA V map being huge I've always found that interactions outside of the city happen waaay more than they did on SAMP. I can count on one hand in the 8 years I played LS:RP that I ran into people outside of any of the towns on SAMP. On World I've experienced the coolest roleplay in the weirdest places and have seen this since the server had 300~ players all the way up until now. I don't think limiting parts of the map is a smart idea as this'll just restrict peoples roleplay ideas for launch and hamper any development less visited areas will have had anyway. Players are going to be very passionate and looking to try new things when the server first launches and hindering this will just upset people.

 

Reasons just need to be made for people to venture outside of the city. World's system of player-ran businesses being marked green meant that I often would travel across the map while I was in SD solely to roleplay with a business that was open; and then on the way you had the potential of stumbling into somebody roleplaying a broken down car or a plethora of other things.

 

Hubs will form naturally and dissolve naturally over time, there's no use trying to force it.

And on SAMP if someone saw you out of LS/Fort Carson they assumed you were up to no good

[Xanakin]

Yeah, no.

[almightybounter]

I'm pretty sure there won't be any restrictions as of where factions are liable to set their grounds upon. As we can tell, the SA:MP scene had a very interesting turf map with less expected factions to pop up in the less expected areas, and most of them turned out to be good enough!